[quote]Makavali wrote:
Good point RJ, but you have to admit, while we might understand extinction, not that many people even care. And with regards to animal understanding of the ecosystem, most of what they do is instinct as opposed to social conditioning. I’m sure humans would be much the same if a lot of our so-called ‘civilization’ was stripped away.
Example: I see that certain un-named countries still go whaling because of a technicality in international whaling law. They planned to hunt a substantial amount of a species that was near extinction not so long ago.[/quote]
You can’t strip away civilization from humans. You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not. We have the intelligence superior to any animal on the planet - plus we have opposable thumbs.
To assume that one could “strip away” our innate ability to form societies - you would also have to assume that we no longer possesed opposable thumbs. One is about as likely to happen as the other.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Lady_J wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Makavali wrote:
I note that we are one possibly the only species that throws out the ecosystem so violently.
Not quite. No other species possesses the ability to comprehend the notion of extinction. They will consume until there is nothing left to consume, and they will die off.
It happens all the time.
No other being on the planet gives a flying fuck about the damn ecosystem besides humans.
no offense man, but show me proof “WE” as a group of beings gives a flying fuck… WE are the species fucking it up… WE are the ones that are consuming until there is nothing left…ozone, forests, thousands of other species, oil… other species only consume what is needed, we are the ONLY species that is gluttonous and hedonistic to no end.
The fact that we are the only ones able to comprehend what we’re doing yet do nothing to halt it makes it even worse…
The mere fact that you can post about extinction is all the proof needed. [/quote]
First, that was totally rhetorical. Now, go back back and read my post…I never used the word extinction…and just because one can post about extinction does not prove that one cares.
I never said anything about a shortage of food so…?? kinda lost on the point of that one
Again, I never used the word extinction. Period. All I said was that humans are the ones raping the planet of its resources and I don’t have to prove that, just watch the news. Even though we know it’s happening we have made it so we cannot just stop. We are almost done emptying the planet of its oil WHICH we are burning in ridiculous amounts WHICH is eating our ozone WHICH, in it’s growing absence, is throwing off weather patterns WHICH contributes to these huge natural disasters we have been seeing as of late… yet we still purchase hummers and suburbans and commute 2 hours one way to work… but i guess the environmentalists are making all that up, right?
Another thing, you don’t have to agree with me darlin, that’s another great thing about being a human… we all have our own opinions. But where did I insult you? Why act like a neanderthal and call me a dipshit and asswipe? I thought you said you couldn’t strip humans of civilization…? Your unprovoked attack begs me to differ.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
You can’t strip away civilization from humans. You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not. We have the intelligence superior to any animal on the planet - plus we have opposable thumbs.
To assume that one could “strip away” our innate ability to form societies - you would also have to assume that we no longer possesed opposable thumbs. One is about as likely to happen as the other.[/quote]
I’ll respectfully disagree there - we’re still animals albeit intelligent ones.
I didn’t mean strip away our ability to form societies, animals do that too. What I meant was that there are many superfluous elements of society that we could do without. Call my idea a ‘refined’ society if you will.
To go back to the original topic, I’d kill a chicken if I had too, so I don’t think I’ll be losing sleep about having my grilled chicken breast for dinner.
And yes, I have killed a chicken before. And no, it wasn’t some psycho thing. It was on a farm.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Good point RJ, but you have to admit, while we might understand extinction, not that many people even care. And with regards to animal understanding of the ecosystem, most of what they do is instinct as opposed to social conditioning. I’m sure humans would be much the same if a lot of our so-called ‘civilization’ was stripped away.
Example: I see that certain un-named countries still go whaling because of a technicality in international whaling law. They planned to hunt a substantial amount of a species that was near extinction not so long ago.
You can’t strip away civilization from humans. You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not. We have the intelligence superior to any animal on the planet - plus we have opposable thumbs.
To assume that one could “strip away” our innate ability to form societies - you would also have to assume that we no longer possesed opposable thumbs. One is about as likely to happen as the other.
[/quote]
newsflash, babe. we ARE animals, mammals to be correct… and chimps also have opposable thumbs.
Many species have societal tendencies much like our own, therefore forming a society is not so much an “ability” as it is an instinct.
Also, I think Makavali was referring to civilization as in technology and such, not our ability to form societies… it took thousands of years for humans to become “civilized.” Take away electricity and money and see how quickly we revert.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
rainjack wrote:
You can’t strip away civilization from humans. You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not. We have the intelligence superior to any animal on the planet - plus we have opposable thumbs.
To assume that one could “strip away” our innate ability to form societies - you would also have to assume that we no longer possesed opposable thumbs. One is about as likely to happen as the other.
I’ll respectfully disagree there - we’re still animals albeit intelligent ones.
I didn’t mean strip away our ability to form societies, animals do that too. What I meant was that there are many superfluous elements of society that we could do without. Call my idea a ‘refined’ society if you will.
To go back to the original topic, I’d kill a chicken if I had too, so I don’t think I’ll be losing sleep about having my grilled chicken breast for dinner.
And yes, I have killed a chicken before. And no, it wasn’t some psycho thing. It was on a farm.[/quote]
wow, mak… right on, lol. WE are definitely on the same page
So let me recapitulate what you wrote here; You think that just because we comprehend a notion necessarily means that we, as a species, are doing something about it. You’re demanding proof that we are raping the planet, and therefore assume our current lifestyles are sustainable. You then refuse to acknowledge the fact that we are animals.
And all the while, you resort to cheap and childish insults to intimidate your interlocutor and make up for the shortcomings in your argument.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
What in the Sam fucking Hill does population have to do with being nicer to the animals?
The more mouths we have to feed, the crappier the conditions under which animals are kept.
Common sense, use it!
Common sense says that if you want to eat, you will do what you have to to have food - so idiots ike you should just shut the fuck up, and color.
Common sense does not include raising a bunch of fucking pets.
[/quote]
True,I would just love for some of these people to be thrown into a situation of really needing to eat or starve and not having all these nice little choices.
So let me recapitulate what you wrote here; You think that just because we comprehend a notion necessarily means that we, as a species, are doing something about it. You’re demanding proof that we are raping the planet, and therefore assume our current lifestyles are sustainable. You then refuse to acknowledge the fact that we are animals.
And all the while, you resort to cheap and childish insults to intimidate your interlocutor and make up for the shortcomings in your argument.
Classic RJ![/quote]
Who said we weren’t animals? It’d be nice if you stopped telling me what you want me to say, anf just fucking read what i did say.
Big words don’t make you smart. And they damn sure don’t win arguments.
You are an idiot with an agenda. That’s what you do here.
Now slither back to the political forum and fuck off.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
What in the Sam fucking Hill does population have to do with being nicer to the animals?
The more mouths we have to feed, the crappier the conditions under which animals are kept.
Common sense, use it!
Common sense says that if you want to eat, you will do what you have to to have food - so idiots ike you should just shut the fuck up, and color.
Common sense does not include raising a bunch of fucking pets.
True,I would just love for some of these people to be thrown into a situation of really needing to eat or starve and not having all these nice little choices.
[/quote]
Lixy is a spolied little college girl who feeds off her trust fund, and tells everyone else how to live. She’s a brave little bitch as long as she has her daddy’s money and a monitor to hide behind.
I’d love to see her have to fix a flat tire, or God forbid - have to get a fucking job.
[quote]Lady_J wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Good point RJ, but you have to admit, while we might understand extinction, not that many people even care. And with regards to animal understanding of the ecosystem, most of what they do is instinct as opposed to social conditioning. I’m sure humans would be much the same if a lot of our so-called ‘civilization’ was stripped away.
Example: I see that certain un-named countries still go whaling because of a technicality in international whaling law. They planned to hunt a substantial amount of a species that was near extinction not so long ago.
You can’t strip away civilization from humans. You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not. We have the intelligence superior to any animal on the planet - plus we have opposable thumbs.
To assume that one could “strip away” our innate ability to form societies - you would also have to assume that we no longer possesed opposable thumbs. One is about as likely to happen as the other.
newsflash, babe. we ARE animals, mammals to be correct… and chimps also have opposable thumbs.
Many species have societal tendencies much like our own, therefore forming a society is not so much an “ability” as it is an instinct.
Also, I think Makavali was referring to civilization as in technology and such, not our ability to form societies… it took thousands of years for humans to become “civilized.” Take away electricity and money and see how quickly we revert.
[/quote]
This is what I don’t understand about all you “Be nice to the meat” dumbasss. If you didn’t have the technology we do - you little fuckers would starve to death because you think you animals deserve dignity and all that bullshit.
You are alive only because people are willing to do shit you are totally ignorant of. They grow food, they make shit, they kill cows - and you whip out your (or perhaps your parents) credit card and you buy it. If anyone on this planet is guilty - it is you. You produce nothing. You only take. You are the very cancer you say is destroying the environment. You are a fucking hypocrite.
Show me a fucking Spider Monkey capable of that kind of thought process. They’re too busy trying to find their own food - because they are not spoiled little fucks.
Now go back to whatever coloring book you have been occupying yourself with. You make no points. You exercise no logic, and quite frankly - You offer nothing that hasn’t been heard a million times. PETA RULES, dude!!!
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Lady_J wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Good point RJ, but you have to admit, while we might understand extinction, not that many people even care. And with regards to animal understanding of the ecosystem, most of what they do is instinct as opposed to social conditioning. I’m sure humans would be much the same if a lot of our so-called ‘civilization’ was stripped away.
Example: I see that certain un-named countries still go whaling because of a technicality in international whaling law. They planned to hunt a substantial amount of a species that was near extinction not so long ago.
You can’t strip away civilization from humans. You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not. We have the intelligence superior to any animal on the planet - plus we have opposable thumbs.
To assume that one could “strip away” our innate ability to form societies - you would also have to assume that we no longer possesed opposable thumbs. One is about as likely to happen as the other.
newsflash, babe. we ARE animals, mammals to be correct… and chimps also have opposable thumbs.
Many species have societal tendencies much like our own, therefore forming a society is not so much an “ability” as it is an instinct.
Also, I think Makavali was referring to civilization as in technology and such, not our ability to form societies… it took thousands of years for humans to become “civilized.” Take away electricity and money and see how quickly we revert.
This is what I don’t understand about all you “Be nice to the meat” dumbasss. If you didn’t have the technology we do - you little fuckers would starve to death because you think you animals deserve dignity and all that bullshit. [/quote]
I never even defended animals let alone said be nice to them, so this doesn’t apply here. I was defending the fact that we exploit them as it is necessary for survival, maybe you should go back and read my first post. And again with the names? You know nothing about me so how about we stay away from childish name calling.
Man, are you serious? Do you know me? Do you know what hypocrite means? I said HUMANS are raping the planet, so i include myself in that because I am a human, so are you… lemme ask you, do you walk every where or do you drive a car? Do you herd your own cattle or farm your own crops? Exactly. and FYI i grow my own vegetables and herbs.
i sure as hell hope u r not implying i am spoiled… and u r illustrating my point about humans being gluttonous… do you not realize that what u r saying here is in agreement with both of what myself and mak are saying about being “civilized?”? you are arguing and bein rude for the fun of it it seems…
I never even defended animals let alone said be nice to them, so this doesn’t apply here. I was defending the fact that we exploit them as it is necessary for survival, maybe you should go back and read my first post. And again with the names? You know nothing about me so how about we stay away from childish name calling.[/quote]
Let me get this straight - you don’t defend animals, but you defend their exploitation?
And you’re telling me to go back and read? That’s rich. Really.
You have a garden. Please don’t portray your life as more than it is. Herbs? That’ll save the fucking planet. You are the one saying we are raping the planet - yet you are part of the problem. That is hypocrisy.
I disagree that the planet is being raped to degree that even requires concern. You have provided zero proof for your argument. And no - growing your own vegetables is proof of nothing. I have done that for 16 years. Big fucking deal.
Walk like duck - quack like a duck. I don’t like environmentalist bullshit. It is the ultimate in junk science and political correctness run wild. You sound eerily similar to an environmentalist.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Who said we weren’t animals? It’d be nice if you stopped telling me what you want me to say, anf just fucking read what i did say. [/quote]
You wrote: “You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not.”
Explain that.
Where did you see any “big words”?
And as a head’s up, “dipshit” and “asswipe” do not make you sound though. Using them simply paints you as both a “dipshit” and an “asswipe”.
Let me get this straight - you don’t defend animals, but you defend their exploitation?
And you’re telling me to go back and read? That’s rich. Really. [/quote]
yes honey, look up the word exploit… it makes sense
I do not assume that herbs will save the planet, but you are the one that said i solely consumed and swiped a card and did not contribute, so i was just giving a little info to the contrary. I portrayed my life in no way at all, good or bad. According to webster, Hypocrisy would be my bitchin while denying i play a part. I made it clear that I included myself in my statement… talk about non sequitur
so you do not believe that we are stripping our planet? You don’t think it requires concern? The depleted ozone, air pollution, shortage of oil… that’s all just propaganda? that’s an interesting philosophy…
[quote] Walk like duck - quack like a duck. I don’t like environmentalist bullshit. It is the ultimate in junk science and political correctness run wild. You sound eerily similar to an environmentalist.
[/quote]
what in anything i have said makes me spoiled? the fact i don’t agree with you? c’mon babe… we don’t have to agree, I don’t give a shit. But you don’t see me implying you r stupid for what you think… we are both entitled to believe what we want. I am merely frustrated by your narrow mindedness. I think your self-righteous indignation is preventing you from seeing where I’m coming from because u r missing the meaning in every statement I have made. U did the same with what Makaveli and Trixy were saying… try to read some sense into what we’re sayin…
[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Who said we weren’t animals? It’d be nice if you stopped telling me what you want me to say, anf just fucking read what i did say.
You wrote: “You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not.”
Explain that.
Big words don’t make you smart. And they damn sure don’t win arguments.
Where did you see any “big words”?
And as a head’s up, “dipshit” and “asswipe” do not make you sound though. Using them simply paints you as both a “dipshit” and an “asswipe”.[/quote]
We are superior to animals. Show me any non-human that can engage in internet pissing contests. Your absurdity in thinking we are equal with other animals is just more proof that you have a disconnect when it comes to real life.
Your arguments - if even slightly based in the notion that the animal kingdom has any equality whatsoever to the human race - are idiocy.
You wrote: “You are trying to equate us with the animals. We are not.”
We are superior to animals. Show me any non-human that can engage in internet pissing contests. Your absurdity in thinking we are equal with other animals is just more proof that you have a disconnect when it comes to real life.
Your arguments - if even slightly based in the notion that the animal kingdom has any equality whatsoever to the human race - are idiocy. [/quote]
baby, in your above quoted statement you said “We are not.” I now see that you must have meant that we are not equal to animals, but it reads to say we are not animals. And before you jump all over me please note that so far the only 3 people that have read it and responded all read it the same way… No one is disputing we are superior, that is apparent…
so you do not believe that we are stripping our planet? You don’t think it requires concern? The depleted ozone, air pollution, shortage of oil… that’s all just propaganda? that’s an interesting philosophy…[/quote]
You make the bold assumption that the ozone depletion is man’s fault. You need proof. Funny about that - I keep asking for proof of your position, and you never provide any.
There is no shortage of oil. Once again - where’s the proof?
The only propaganda I see is the swill you and lixy are slinging.
Proof, honey. You need it to make you assertions valid.
It’s not a philosophy. It’s called common sense.
What’s narrow minded about wanting just a little proof from you? What’s narrow minded in calling bullshit on someone who swears up and down we are raping the planet? Think what you want. Believe what you want. But posting such beliefs in an open forum opens them up for argument.
For someone who is so damn sure of your position - you certainly have a hard time backing it up.
There’s no sense to be read into what you are saying. That is my entire problem with you and the enviro-whackos.