The Morality of Eating Meat

Off Topic
41

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
How do you reconcile the apparent inconsistency of eating meat from animals raised in often horrid conditions facing brutal, painful deaths, and putting pets like cats and dogs on some higher moral pedestal by treating them with respect and letting them live with dignity? Do animal rights exist? If not, what’s wrong with raising dogs to slaughter and eat as you would with sheep, pigs, and chickens?
[/quote]

It’s too expensive to raise dogs and cats for food given that both are carnivores and you’d have to feed them meat.

Animal rights exist when humans grant them but animals NEVER grant humans human rights; and that’s why I don’t mind eating them.

Regarding letting dogs and cats live with dignity - my cat craps in a box, eats off the floor and licks its own ass clean.

42

I think we have gotten off the original topic. The poster asked what’s is the difference between eating a dog and eating a chicken. I think the answer is obvious if you’ve ever owned a dog or a chicken. Dogs are intelligent pack animals, they have very high emotional intelligence and bond with their owners. Chickens are stupid. They are just another bird in the flock.

Aside from the emotional arguments, chickens can be raised cheaply, making them an efficient food source. Give them a little bit of grain and let them eat worms out in the yard for a few hours a day and in no time you’ve got enough protein to feed the family. Dogs are not an efficient food source, you put far more calories into raising a dog than you will ever get when you eat them.

The only reason people started eating dog is because they could feed it table scraps, fattening it up for later in times of famine. It was a way of storing excess calories as insurance, back before people could save leftovers in the freezer. Obviously eating dog became some kind of special delicacy in some cultures, but those cultures also eat rhino horns and tiger penises as a cure for impotence.

43

[quote]905Patrick wrote:

It’s too expensive to raise dogs and cats for food given that both are carnivores and you’d have to feed them meat.

Animal rights exist when humans grant them but animals NEVER grant humans human rights; and that’s why I don’t mind eating them.

Regarding letting dogs and cats live with dignity - my cat craps in a box, eats off the floor and licks its own ass clean.[/quote]

Good post. One could argue we are respecting the animals’ culture by eating them, in fact. That is what any other predator would do for a cow/turkey/bison/chicken/whatever else you fancy eating. I, for one, am all for whatever the most efficient manner of raising and killing animals is.

And Lixy…have you ever taken a good long drive? Say across the USA for example? I have; trust me, overpopulation is NOT a legitimate problem. There are thousands upon thousands of miles of open, perfectly good land totally unpopulated in the midwestern USA, and most other states as well. If you don’t believe me, use mapquest, and just look around for a bit.

44

Going along Mage’s point, I think most people who feel strongly about how most humans ‘mistreat’ animals have a Disney-version of nature in their minds.

Nature is an extremely harsh, unforgiving place, and I don’t think “happy” is the first adjective that comes to mind when talking about most wild animals.

45

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
lixy wrote:
Raising animals to be eaten is no issue for me. Industrializing it is the problem. When cows are crammed in pitiful conditions, that’s unacceptable.

I believe overpopulation is the underlying cause here. If we weren’t so many, chances are that we wouldn’t have accepted the conditions under which most livestock spends its days.

There are some very graphic and poignant footage in this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1282796533661048967

Why does it not surprise me that you would use a propaganda piece to make your point?

You have no clue what livestock are subjected to outside of the crap PETA tells you.

I don’t know who this PETA is, but I have seen industrial chicken farms, slaughterhouses and the like. And I can assure you that the cows I’ve seen roaming around in green pastures would never trade places with the others.

You can have a lot of respect for an animal and still eat it. I have no issues with that. But crowding them and making them live in horrid conditions is reprehensible. And as I noted earlier, it is a direct consequence of overpopulation. If we weren’t so many, we wouldn’t need to squeeze in as many birds per cubic foot. The only limit to that, being where the poor things start dying.[/quote]

I know nothing about the birds, and don’t really care. They’re fucking birds. They are nothing but fish that live out the water.

How much respect do you have for commercial fishing operations?

You know dick about cattle, I can “assure” you that if the feed is good, they will gladly go to the feedlot. It’s okay to admit you are ignorant. It is far better to do that than continue with your knowledgeless bullshit.

If you are so concerned about overpopulation, do something about it - starting with yourself.

46

I have no problem eating meat. I have no problem with animals being raised for food. I would like the animals to receive the appropriate food for their bodies (anti-corn here for cows) but that is so they taste better and are healthier when I eat them. Yes, it is all about me.

That said, I would support a policy that said wild animals would not be prevented from contact with people or killed when they injure or kill a human. (Note: I am not saying domesticated animals) Food chain, baby. We are not the only ones at/near the top.

47

We are built to eat meat, we are built to hunt meat. We eat all meat that is available. There is no meat that is not off limits if one looks at other cultures and times. If there is no meat available, we eat bugs.

We don’t eat cats and dogs in America because we engage in the fiction that they are people, when in fact they are merely fetish objects. We over-romanticize our relationship to our pets creating a relationship that does not exist. Dogs fit in to a pack structure wherein we are the Alpha Dog and food provider. It’s just a bonus for them if we happen to be kind to them. Cats are there only because you feed them. Stop feeding your cat and see how long they stick around - assuming they are not imprisoned.

We don’t eat people (generally) because we know inherently that would cause a breakdown of society and that, at root, a cannibal cannot be trusted. Or, at the very least, a cannibal not from our tribe cannot be trusted.

To survive, you have to eat. You may have to eat something that doesn’t wish to be eaten. Until wholesome food can be manufactured out of raw materials rather than grown, we will always have to kill something in order to eat.

Live with it.

48

Put down the Peter Singer book and stop drinking the kool-aid.

49

[quote]gatesoftanhauser wrote:
Gee, look where the OP is from: California! Big surprise there, huh??

When PETA and the rest of the “animal rights” groups go off on their soapbox, I liken it to government leaders using sensationalism to achieve their means. I grew up in the cattle industry, and was routinely in and around slaughterhouses and feedlots. People see one instance of mismanagement and therefore conclude that EVERY single slaughterhouse is unethical, inhumane and dirty. Not the truth. There are federal inspections done randomly in these packing facilities, and to conclude that nobody cares and that nobody is watching is simply ludicrous.

These crusaders that parade for animal rights should visit some feedyards and packing facilities to get a dose of reality.[/quote]

Please refrain from the ad hominem and actually read what I wrote. I eat meat. I’m not advocating vegetarian diets. You probably don’t know jack about this state anyway. Outside of SF and LA, in the rural counties, it is mainly Republicans. Not to mention San Diego…

I find it funny that people get so threatened when you try to logically deduce their rationale for living the way they do. It’s not an attack, really. I do it to myself all the time, instead of wading idelly through life, never questioning or looking deeper.

50

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
how do you think vegetables feel? the are planted and forced to grow with no hopes of escape and then chopped down by those merciless farmers and eaten by zombie-like vegetarians. im sorry but that is disguisting i dont know how you guys can sleep at night. [/quote]

Vegetables and plants lack a central nervous system and thus consciousness. The neurological activity of animals and humans in pain can be clearly seen via certain imaging machines.

51

wow…

We are at the top of the food chain.

Other predators eat animals… Are they cruel?

Its how it works… Don’t eat meat if you have a problem with it or if you think its inhuman how they are kept raise your own damn animals.

We raised cows growing up they are the dumbest animals ever. they will run through a barbwire fence right next to an open gate.

All these people who feel bad about eating animals I bet never raised their own food…

52

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
I think we have gotten off the original topic. The poster asked what’s is the difference between eating a dog and eating a chicken. I think the answer is obvious if you’ve ever owned a dog or a chicken. Dogs are intelligent pack animals, they have very high emotional intelligence and bond with their owners. Chickens are stupid. They are just another bird in the flock.

Aside from the emotional arguments, chickens can be raised cheaply, making them an efficient food source. Give them a little bit of grain and let them eat worms out in the yard for a few hours a day and in no time you’ve got enough protein to feed the family. Dogs are not an efficient food source, you put far more calories into raising a dog than you will ever get when you eat them.

The only reason people started eating dog is because they could feed it table scraps, fattening it up for later in times of famine. It was a way of storing excess calories as insurance, back before people could save leftovers in the freezer. Obviously eating dog became some kind of special delicacy in some cultures, but those cultures also eat rhino horns and tiger penises as a cure for impotence.[/quote]

Pigs, on the other hand, are more intelligent than dogs and pot-bellied pigs can be raised as pets.

My original post has to do with the inconsistency many have when they condemn dog fighting and the like while taking an “anything goes” mentality when it comes to how the meat they eat was killed.

I myself am not espousing a position or taking a stand in this thread. I’m mainly playing devil’s advocate, so for all you getting your panties in a knot over this: get over it. The sooner we detach ourselves emotionally from the topic and analyze it logically, the better.

53

[quote]Travacolypse wrote:
Put down the Peter Singer book and stop drinking the kool-aid.[/quote]

I don’t agree with Singer. I’m more in line with Carl Cohen’s views on the topic.

54

[quote]Kalle wrote:
wow…

We are at the top of the food chain.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t say that when tiny microbial bacteria and viruses can bring human populations and infrastructure to its knees.

55

There’s not enough land in the world to rais cattle in a friendly, butterfly meadows manner that some are espousing in this thread.

Right now, Grass Fed Beef is a niche market. which works fine as long as it stays that way.

The commercial meat industry uses confines finishing because it is efficient - which makes it affordable to many more people.

You guys have the misguided notion that one should give a shit about the feelings of the animals that show up on your plate.

If you do - then fine. Don’t eat meat. Don’t contribute to the perpetuation of the cycle. But don’t sit here and act like the answers to the world’s fucking problems is going to be found in making Bessie the Cow your fucking friend.

There is a commercial meat market precisely because people won’t do it themselves. Don’t bitch, or tell people who have been doing it for generations that their way sucks. You haven’t a fucking clue how to do it yourself.

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

56

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
And Lixy…have you ever taken a good long drive? Say across the USA for example? I have; trust me, overpopulation is NOT a legitimate problem. There are thousands upon thousands of miles of open, perfectly good land totally unpopulated in the midwestern USA, and most other states as well. If you don’t believe me, use mapquest, and just look around for a bit. [/quote]

80 years ago, we were 2 billion. As of today, we are 6,666,666,666 running around.

http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html

Look at the conditions we’re raising animals in. Look at what we’re doing to the planet. Probably nothing in the near future, but if longevity keeps evolving, we’re down the road of big trouble.

57

[quote]rainjack wrote:
There’s not enough land in the world to rais cattle in a friendly, butterfly meadows manner that some are espousing in this thread.

Right now, Grass Fed Beef is a niche market. which works fine as long as it stays that way.

The commercial meat industry uses confines finishing because it is efficient - which makes it affordable to many more people.

You guys have the misguided notion that one should give a shit about the feelings of the animals that show up on your plate.

If you do - then fine. Don’t eat meat. Don’t contribute to the perpetuation of the cycle. But don’t sit here and act like the answers to the world’s fucking problems is going to be found in making Bessie the Cow your fucking friend.

There is a commercial meat market precisely because people won’t do it themselves. Don’t bitch, or tell people who have been doing it for generations that their way sucks. You haven’t a fucking clue how to do it yourself.

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

[/quote]
It is estimated that 3-4 billion more people will inhabit this planet by 2050. Doesn’t meat consumption seem unsustainable given this? Now thousands of years ago this wouldn’t have been a problem, as humans predominantly lived in bands of less than 100 people and game was plentiful.

58

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
There’s not enough land in the world to rais cattle in a friendly, butterfly meadows manner that some are espousing in this thread.

Right now, Grass Fed Beef is a niche market. which works fine as long as it stays that way.

The commercial meat industry uses confines finishing because it is efficient - which makes it affordable to many more people.

You guys have the misguided notion that one should give a shit about the feelings of the animals that show up on your plate.

If you do - then fine. Don’t eat meat. Don’t contribute to the perpetuation of the cycle. But don’t sit here and act like the answers to the world’s fucking problems is going to be found in making Bessie the Cow your fucking friend.

There is a commercial meat market precisely because people won’t do it themselves. Don’t bitch, or tell people who have been doing it for generations that their way sucks. You haven’t a fucking clue how to do it yourself.

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

It is estimated that 3-4 billion more people will inhabit this planet by 2050. Doesn’t meat consumption seem unsustainable given this? Now thousands of years ago this wouldn’t have been a problem, as humans predominantly lived in bands of less than 100 people and game was plentiful. [/quote]

What in the Sam fucking Hill does population have to do with being nicer to the animals? If anything, the rising population is a ringing endorsement for the current commercial meat practices.

Please stay on topic here.

59

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
However, I know was designed to eat meat, and since I got back on meat, and cut out a lot of grains and soy I can’t describe how much healthier I feel.
[/quote]

Yes, it comes down to this. I, too, was a vegetarian for 6 or 7 years, and I felt like shit most of the time, even though I was doing everything right…eating wholeseome vegetarian food, not junk. When I begain eating meat again, I immediately felt better.

There is nothing morally wrong with eating according to how you were designed. Now if someone can eat vegetarian and be healthy, more power to them. Despite what I have said above, I will admit that I don’t like thinking about it when sitting at the dinner table.

60

[quote]rainjack wrote:
What in the Sam fucking Hill does population have to do with being nicer to the animals? [/quote]

The more mouths we have to feed, the crappier the conditions under which animals are kept.

Common sense, use it!