Just a general statement. Most people dismiss his theory based on his later writings. Which in my experience are basically unworkable. And most importantly not how he trained himself. I beleive that when he was teaining seriously he did use HIT/ heavy duty. Roger Scwabb says he trained this way in prep for a contest under his supervision. No reaso n for him to lie.
When I saw Mentzer train he went from one Nautilus machine to the next pretty quickly and pushed one set to failure and then some with help from a partner . I saw him at the gym around 2 or 3 times a week but thatās all I went so I donāt know if he came more often. I was very impressed with him but when looking at him I knew he was in a whole different world of muscle building than me so other than using Nautilus machines I saw that what he did had little relevance to what I could do. It was like watching Ronnie Coleman and thinking , heāll heās doing that , maybe I should too, hah!!
Scott
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Roger Schwab told me that he trained Mentzer at his nautilus facility, full body 3x/week for the 1980 Mr. Olympia
Quoted for emphasis.
Listened to one of his old tapes last night that someone put up on YouTube. The routine went like this (all sets to failure); train every 96 hours (or more):
Day 1 (Chest/back)
A1) Pec deck (6-10 reps)
2) Incline press (1-3 reps)
B) C/G palm up pulldown (6-10 reps)
C) Deadlift (6-8 reps)
Day 2 (Legs)
A1) Leg extensions (8-15 reps)
2) Leg press (8-15 reps)
B) Standing calf (12-20 reps)
Day 3 (Delts/Arms)
A) Lat Raise (6-10 reps)
B) Reverse pec dec (6-10 reps)
C) BB Curl (6-10 reps)
D1) Pushdown (6-10 reps)
2) Dips (3-5 reps)
Day 4 (Legs)
A1) Leg extensions (using 30lbs more than last time, do one static hold for 10-25s)
2) Leg press (8-15 reps)
B) Standing calf (12-20 reps)
Other tidbits from Mike on this routine: swap out deadlift for shrugs, if you have lower back issues. On pushdowns, use a straight bar or V bar - donāt use a rope. For curls, use a barbell not an EZ bar. For leg press substitute, use a squat preferably in a Smith. Donāt do hack squats. He didnāt cite any intensification techniques here, e.g. forced reps. As you progressed, you extended the days between sessions.
How would Franco know that?..They trained at different gyms. Mentzer at Goldās when it was on Second Street in Santa Monica and Franco and Arnold at World Gym. In fact, for most of Mentzerās competitive career, Franco was recovering from an injury and wasnāt even trainingā¦Itās a blatant lie.
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I wouldnāt believe anything Arnold or Franco say anymore
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I agree. But Franco has nothing to say, heās dead!!!
Thats true, he is gone
John Little told me, Mike trained according to his Heavy Duty II routine later in lifeā¦with a better understanding of recovery. In his prime, he obviously used more. Dave Mastorakis said, āMike and Ray did more than they neededā.
What a great article on Mike, thanks you for posting it.
I found out about him in the 80ās during my discovery of HIT. I remember a great article he did in MD that struck me as the best approach to HIT for bodybuilding which was a split routine , very low volume and pre-exhaust. I do not know the which of their marketed systems ( HD 1 or 2 ) this was but I remember as an example that his shoulder routine was laterals followed by a press and he repeat the ācycleā twice and the same / similar for chest , etc. I tried it and loved it but at the time was just too bull headed and dedicated to Leistner and Darden who always advised against split routines. I have to say for myself that sticking to a full body routine was the worst thing I followed for ābodybuildingā purposes, second only to Super Slow ( Iām speaking from my experience and for myself - not everyone - so simmer down, lol ).
I do know all too well what his ā Consolidated ā routine was as thatās where I ended up through necessity following a full body routine. In order to keep up the intensity and recovery I had to reduce number of exercises. I eventually ended up doing two workout / week consisting of three exercises. This was almost as big as a disaster as Super Slow was for me, except at least doing this I still looked like I trained.
I donāt fault Mentzer or call him a nutcase for anything that he advocated that didnāt turn out as he believed it should at the time. This happens to everyone who is developing anything new and venturing into new territory. You later realize mistakes, have to back up and make adjustments. I remember Jones may times admitting in articles that he believed something and later saying
" ā¦ but I was wrong."
I feel bad for all the shit that happened to him and how everything collapsed . Itās nice to know however that he and Arnold patched up their differences later on.
Thanks again for posting this article on Mike .
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I never agreed with that extra Leg day. It would draw too many recovery reserves from the upper body. I usually did Day 1 | Rest 2-3 days | Day 2 | Rest 2-3 days | Day 3 | Rest 3-5 days | Repeat.
Best,
Scott
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I tend to agree with you simon-hecubus. Iāve made some of my best leg gains HITting them every 14 days. Thatās what didnāt sit well with me about Mikeās HDII routine.
Interesting. Iām still getting used to the whole low frequency thing and think Iām not doing enough (common HIT misconception). That said, I tend to compensate with intensity techniques which usually result in DOMS lasting 3-4 days. So training every 96 hours feels more ānaturalā in that sense.
=== Scott ==
Thatās the part of training to failure and beyond that I donāt like. I hate waiting 3 or 4 days or a week between workouts to recover. I love to work the muscles to exhaustion during a workout but I had a hard time recovering from it.
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I hear you. And Mike himself used to say donāt judge progress on how much muscle ache you feel (he claimed he never used to get DOMS!). I suppose itās knowing yourself, and knowing what works and what doesnāt.
I remember an article where Mike was training Aaron Baker. I believe it was in Iron Man magazine (early 90s?). However, I recall it was before the published HDII workout where it was a three day a week routine broken down by: chest/back, legs, and shoulders/arms.
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James: I followed HDII recommendations about increasing Rest Days over time, when weights and/or reps stagnated. What I found that as the gaps got greater, so did the number of days I experienced DOMS!! When I was working out once/week, I had DOMS lasting 6 days and when I went to once every 10 days, my DOMS would last 8 days!!
Later, I found that my body was becoming de-conditioned.
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Wow , 8 days!? What kind of workout were you doing? 20 sets of squats with both Mentzers on your shoulders ? Ha ha !
Two Qs:
- How long did you run that?
- And were you making strength gains between workouts?