Ok, closer to my point. Zimmerman was put on trial for shooting an unarmed person in what he claimed was self defense. The police originally were not going to charge him but after some heifers started tweeting black lives matter (this was the genesis of BLM), he was charged.
In Chicago, even if we say it was self defense, it’s not as clear a case as Zimmerman who was in the midst of a physical confrontation; he didn’t chase Trayvon and shoot him down. Why was Zimmerman put on trial while the Chicago shooter had the charges dropped?
Why is Penny being charged especially given the fact that Neely was still alive when the police and EMTs arrived? What about the narcan Neely was given by the cops? Why isn’t the other guy who helped restrain Neely being charged (who wasn’t white)?
I’ve already answered the Zimmerman trial was a race based political stunt. This is another topic entirely.
However, he was a security guard. Paul Blart. And he approached a suspicious kid who attacked him. No need to rehash events, he was found innocent. I’m not sure I understand your point considering.
In Chicago a woman was attacked and defense occurred. Zimmerman (who was found innocent anyways) was the aggressor.
We are talking about self defense, not picking a fight, escalating to death and claiming necessity because you got punched.
Maybe a racial political stunt too. Kind of a moot point to the broader track of what self-defense is.
The other guy was given immunity for testimony. Surmise what you will but in the end it was Neely doing the choking.
I’m not sure what overarching point you’re trying to make here.
The examples you’ve thrown out to “prove” that self-defense in general is more limited in scope than what happened in Chicago are:
Georgia - where a truck full of guys filmed themselves stalking, approaching, threatening and shooting a guy they made an assumption about - and who tried to claim that because he reached for their gun after they jumped him it was self-defense.
Zimmerman - found innocent first and foremost so it was self-defense. End of story really but I’ll humor you. Another guy who stalked and approached, got attacked but successfully claimed defense. Maybe it was his dad’s connections, maybe because he was security it was viewed as a line of duty thing. Who knows, but he was found innocent of murder charges.
Neely. It’s New York. Those assholes will arrest you if you have a connecting flight with a checked AR-15, even if it’s a redirect. Neely choked a guy in an area that believes care bear policies work. He’s still on trial though. And, he also made the approach. Given circumstances, as I already stated, I agree it was defense anyways.
Chicago. A woman was attacked and a defense occurred.
You’re reaching pretty hard to force an incorrect point.
And, honorable mention, a guy in Texas was arrested by a gang task force after approaching someone in an abandoned house, shooting him and waiting four hours for some odd reason to call it in. Not a fishy story that doesn’t match typical defense patterns at all.
In Indiana, an attorney was recently sanctioned by our Supreme Court for repeatedly referring to “the black man” during a trial. It would be nice to see someone raise an issue with the New York bar with the DA calling Penny “the white man.” The tacit goal was the same in both instances: to elicit a negative view of the person based on his race.
Leaving aside the validity of Penny’s self-defense claim (which appears to me to be compelling), death does not have to be immediate for the perpetrator to be guilty of murder. All that is required is that death be the reasonably foreseeable consequence of a knowing or intentional act. Some people are charged with murder where the victim lingers in the hospital for weeks before finally succumbing.
To be fair, this occurred in a part of rural Indiana where there is still plenty of animus toward black people. Unfortunately those areas do exist even in the 21st Century. It was pretty clear from the circumstances that the lawyer was trying to play on anti-black prejudice; the sanction was well-deserved.
My point here is that the DA is doing the same thing in the Penny trial but in reverse, and likewise merits a bar sanction.
I was surprised, but not THAT surprised, to learn that Kreuger’s Korner Klub was still in business in LaCrosse on my wonderful visit to Indiana last year.
I don’t like the wind farm along I-65 at all, but otherwise Hoosiers seem to have kept themselves in pretty decent hands. The Covered Bridge Festival was great and we had a couple days of fantastic weather. The trails at Turkey Run were as they should be with the small exception of some silly Christians insisting on renaming the “Devil’s Punchbowl” to something stupid.
I agree completely. It is time to chase all of this nonsense out of public life.
The cops administered narcan and refused, from what I’ve read, to provide CPR because Neely looked like a disease factory. And the non white person who helped restrain Neely hasn’t been charged with anything.
Except from an objective standpoint you’re consistently comparing apples and oranges to do it. And most of your examples were legally self-defense, except GA, which was straight up murder. No grey area.
Right. And what kicked this whole tangent off was specifically comparing a scenario where a woman was violently attacked to a scenario where a guy more or less preemptively assumed risk.
And, as stated, I see both scenarios as valid defense scenarios, but they’re not actually the same.
Here is Penny’s interview with police after the incident.
As I suspected, he’s got a little bit of grappling training from the MCMAP, whatever it takes to get your green belt. He’s nowhere near the level of someone who has studied BJJ for years.
Closing arguments are also complete and I think the verdict will be announced on or around Dec 2.
He should have kept quiet until he had a lawyer present. I can’t remember who advised this, but he said if you use something like bjj in self defense, to not tell the cops you used bjj. I didn’t see the whole video so I don’t know how much Penny said but the guy I’m referring to also said to never say you put someone in a chokehold; if anything say you restrained the person.
Perhaps he should have, but he stated plainly in the video that he didn’t know BJJ and his only training was MCMAP to green belt level.
One of the detectives trained BJJ and asked him if he was aware of whether or not he was doing a rear naked choke and Penny, perhaps genuinely or perhaps sensing a trap, claimed to not understand the term.
Nothing about him or what was discussed seemed unreasonable to me.
What I don’t like is the medical examiner admitting she saw the video and used that to help her conclude cause of death. I think she said something to the effect of she watched Neely dying. The problem is, he wasn’t dead in the video. It seems that she and other MEs in NYC came to a conclusion and were incapable or unwilling to entertain any other possibility.
On a semi related note, there are better ways to restrain someone, you would know as a bjj practitioner and bouncer, than anything resembling a choke hold. I tell people I train with that if they use an rnc in the real world, to any witnesses it will look like you’re trying to kill the other person. I think that’s the issue Penny faces. A chokehold could be seen as a lethal reaction to a situation that didn’t justify lethal force.