The Israel War Thread

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
594

This is the strangest thing to me, and I’ve touched on it a few times upthread.

Like where do they get the freakin nerve?!?

Firing rockets randomly into population centers, then “oh, we’re our own state, but you need to provide us with…” .

I had some scummy neighbors that had all of their utilities shut off, cuz they’d rather shoot dope than pay bills.

If they had demanded to use my water & electric and got violent over it, the township would have to call the fire department to hose dead junkies off of the pavement.

“Palestine” is dumber than them.

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595

No. The British were the legitimate “owners” of Palestine. They decided to divide it between Arabs and Jews. The Arabs were babies about it.

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No.

You could add Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian to that list.

They could stand up to Hamas and Iran.

Return to something that never existed.

597

Are you talking about this hospital bombing?

Human Rights Watch says rocket misfire likely cause of deadly Gaza hospital blast | Reuters.

Secondly… it is a violation of international law to use refugee camps as hideouts for storing weapons, minutions and millitants… it is also a violation of international law to use civillians as human shields

The loss of civillians associated with such conduct is said to be the fault of the organisation forcing civillians to stay put all the while the IDF hands out millions of pamphlets and makes millions of voice calls saying “evacuate now”

Such conduct is virtually unheard of during war… warning the other side pre-emptively before attacking…

Furthermore… not to discredit the civillian death toll… but the united states has repeatedly gotten itself into conflicts where the civillian death toll is far higher yet no one bats an eye.

People are outraged because it’s Israel. Should also note the level of support for Hamas in Gaza floats at around 80%.

Pakistan just displaced over one million refugees and the world stays silent.

Watching the Israel-Hamas conflict is like watching an MMA match where Hamas says “I’m not following any of the rules”

While spectators complain “Israel hits too hard… tie their hands behind their back and it’s a fair fight!”…

Fuck Hamas couldn’t even commit to a four day humanitarian cease fire that Israel agreed to. They broke it prematurely, shot up a bus stop in Jerusalem, launched rockets all over the place

And then the UN demands another ceasefire? Are you kidding me?

During a recent raid, one member of Hamas who surrendered was found to be a member of the UN… what… a … fucking… joke…

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598

Before the british it was controlled by the ottoman empire

There is a misconception that Israel was previously an independently governed palestine

Palestinians arguably have control over more land today relative to any time in modern history.

Under British rule/Ottoman empires control, Palestinians had no independent sovereignty.

Now they have wonderful autocratic leaders in charge through the PLA and Hamas.

Palestinians have actually come out in droves protesting against the corruption of the PLA in the past

I agree Palestinians need to be liberated… from their own governments…

601

If this is a harbinger of things to come, based on previous opinions you’ve expressed, things couldn’t be better for these two institutions.

NATO has every reason to be stronger than ever, given to them by Putin himself, and every bordering nation now knows with certainty that the EU and US will fully back any plays against Russian agression.

As for Israel, we’ll see. Or at least you will.

And…

Thats not up to you to decide or determine.

602

The word “considered” obviously is giving you problems.

603

I do? And Pushkin was mixed race.

604

Has anyone on here watched footage of what unfolded on october 7th?

You can also find footage of aftermaths from the air strikes… both are disturbing

Sometimes things are best left unseen…
But for those who say “gazans don’t represent hamas”

You can find videos of Gazan children and civillians harrassing and mutilating gravely injured Israeli citizens (some of whom have had limbs cut off and are looking down in shock at what used to be their legs etc).

You can find footage that is far, far worse… but be warned… these are videos that will stick with you…

With the whole “gaza is not hamas”… which organisation independently governs Gaza?

Who voted Hamas in?

There is a lot of misinformation spreading about this conflict. The narrative of Israel bombing Al-Ahli hospital persists despite evidence overwhelmingly being in favor of the bombing being a rocket misfire from hamas and/or PIJ.

Notwithstanding Hamas uses hospitals as grounds to store weapons and munitions. There is footage of a millitant using the hospital as a platform to fire an RPG.

That is a violation of international law… and actually makes the hospital fair game…

According to international law, civillians cannot be used as human shields either. Civillian casualties as a result are SUPPOSED to be at the hands of the organisation responsible for forcing civillians to stay put at gunpoint under the threat of death.

On live television a leader of hamas stated they’d murder civillians who evacuated if they returned as these civillians are supposed to be martyrs for the cause…

I think it’s clear Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinian lives…

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605

Surely, all of those anti-semitic liberals (especially the queer ones) will get a free pass, right?

606

I have made a deliberate effort to avoid it. It is unlikely to shift my opinion on the situation and I have no desire to witness such things.

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607

What is your opinion?

608

I think the young people who support Hamas should watch some of this footage

The pro-hamas individuals… many will say the college kids who rip down posters of those taken hostage and harrass jewish students are not pro-hamas.

Yet at the pro-palestine protests many young people came out in droves chanting “gas the jews” and “from the river to the sea”

I’ve heard some seriously asinine bullshit like “Hamas didn’t kill anyone at supernova! Those noble freedom fighters were actually protecting Israeli civillians by shuttling them into gaza because IDF attack hellicopters opened fire on the crowd!”

These people need to watch footage of Hamas millitants commiting atrocities… they need to see what they are brazenly supporting

And I assume many would STILL support hamas. The islamic communities in Australia have a problem with radicalisation and extremism.

In Caufield (Jewish neighbourhood in melbourne) we had arab kids cruising around looking for ‘jews to kill’.

They were arrested before the situation got out of hand.

I used to think there was a difference between being pro-palestine and anti-jewish

But after witnessing some of these protests I’m honestly not sure anymore… the pro palestinian protestors by and large fail to condemn acts of legitimate antisemitism… stemming from their own protests…

The UN fucking wants another ceasefire… hamas couldn’t even commit to the first ceasefire and broke the rules by lobbying rockets over during the supposed ceasefire

UN wants a ceasefire while Hamas still has hostages (many of whom are likely dead or pregnant from repeated sexual assaults)

A member of the UN recently surrendered in gaza… turns out the UN accepts Hamas millitants as members… what a joke of an organisation. UN failed to condemn this

A ceasefire while it’s own members can shoot at IDF soldiers… great…

Support for Hamas is growing amongst Palestinians in the west bank. If israel wins this war they need to rebuild destroyed infrastructure and overhaul the educational curriculum in Palestine which currently promotes radicalisation and extremism

IDF soldiers found a copy of mein kampf in a childrens classroom… hard to break a populace out from under the shackles of indoctrination.

609

Once you realize you are witnessing an American/Anglo phenomenon of categorization based on two options, white or non white, it’s simple; Jews are white, and therefore are inherently guilty of every sin ever committed by white people, and Palestinian Arabs are people of color, thus perpetual victims of whites.

If you were to take a “white” person who would identify by ethnicity before identifying as white you won’t see the same self loathing and virtue signaling. The woke mob, which is a female driven movement and ideology, has taken advantage of weak American and Anglo men. I think part of this is these men are trying to seek approval and validation from their mothers rather than their fathers. That’s why they have no problems with allowing women to walk all over them and being in leadership positions. Just look at those university presidents who testified before Congress; all women. And all came off as incompetent and the opposite of what a leader looks like. But men allow them to be the boss ladies.

These men have accepted the label of white and the definition that goes with it, and it was primarily women, most of whom were white, who came up with that definition. If you tell a “white” man who identifies as his ethnicity that white people blah, blah, blah, he’ll just look at you and say, for example, “whatever, I’m Polish.” He won’t feel guilty or embarrassed. I’ve witnessed white people say they were embarrassed to be white. I don’t get it. How does someone see themselves as part of a race, as race is defined in America? It’s as if they think Europe is one nation.

Anyway, this antisemitism is really part of the process of dehumanizing white males. Any non white males who show signs of so called toxic masculinity are thrown in with white males because the attack on white men is really an attack on masculine virtues and traits. Why? It’s the only way women can achieve equity and justice. So in the battle of good vs evil, what’s wrong with white people getting karma? They deserve it.

When the woke shit started, I thought it was like the hippies in the 60s. That was before my time but I looked back and thought of them as peaceful, they were bleeding heart idealists. When you look closely at wokeism you see it’s more fascist than hippy. You can see the Marxist roots and history has shown us that socialism and communism are not above extreme violence and barbarism to achieve their goals. Young people are more likely to lack empathy than older people so they are the perfect useful idiots.

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610

And just to add to the hippy comparison. You can see video and pictures from the 60s and the hippy protesters were non violent and talked about love and peace. They carried flowers. I saw a recent video of a pro Hamas, I mean Palestinian Arab, protest on a college campus and it looked like something from Nazi Germany. There were chants for violence against Israel and Jews. And guess what? I don’t think I saw one male there.

In order to dehumanize you need to lack some degree of humanity yourself first. These young women were angry and bitter but, having known women like this, this wasn’t because of what’s going on in Gaza; this is how they always are. These are young people who are in a constant state of misery. It’s as if they already see their futures as single women without kids in middle age. Typically, we think that a female virtue is compassion. We think of kindness. You know, the opposite of toxic masculinity. These women lack those feminine virtues which makes it easy for them to be pro violence. It’s easy for them to lack humanity and commit the crime of “othering.” Even though the woke are the ones who call othering a crime. But that’s how fascists reason.

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I’ve never met a psychologically healthy modern fascist… and i’ve met quite a few. I’ve never met a modern socialist or communist who didn’t have serious issues of some sort.

Not saying it doesn’t exist… but fascists, socialists and communists typically lack empathy and/or they are HIGHLY selective in terms of who they empathise with… while being psychopathically cold towards those who they deem as lesser or responsible for the worlds problems… and it typically revolves around a group or group(s).

It’s also amusing that the three kind of overlap in terms of ideology albeit different levels exist to this.

I’ve also found the further left or further right you get the more reality becomes distorted. People who adhere ro political extremes frequently harbour conspirational beliefs or ideologies and/or are driven almost entirely by voilatile emotion…

I also think some people are hardwired to think a certain way
… like the anti-vaxx crowd who says vaccines cause autism

This was initially proposed by ONE doctor… after which the study was retracted after it was found the doctor at hand was involved in a litigation suit against a company that developed vaccines

The doctor was jailed and his study was found to be bullshit… following this as hysteria developed various scientisrs conducred thousands of studies encompassing a sample size of over 14 million kids all of which specified vaccines don’t cause autism

Despite this many anti vaxxers will provide articles that lack any scientific referencing and/or go entirely on anecdote and gut instinct “joes kid has autism and Joe says it was from the vaccine”. If you can still believe vaccines cause autism despite autism being a neurodevelopmental disorder that you have to be born with coupled with the 14 million kids spanning over thousands of studies you must be hardwired to think a certain way.

The same way some appear hard wired to blame Israel 24/7 or look at articles consisting entirely of anecdote or opinion without references or evidence and take it as fact because the article supports a narrative that the reader likes… many appear to exclusively look at incredibly biased sources while not taking the bias into account.

My cousin (doctor) has a close friend who is exactly like this… and the way she forms conclusions is just unbelievable… goes against the grain of proficient or intellectually honest and sound methodology (and she isn’t interested in a constructive debate or educating herself… only wishes to tell you about why vaccines are bad).

Some people are seemingly hard wired to find patterns where patterns don’t exist. There’s a correlation… but is there an inverse correlation? The sources my cousins friend sent me to prove how harmful vaccines were actually led to me losing faith in humanity…

I see the same thing with the woke ideology and/or fascism, socialism and communism. Many make statements without the ability to back it up.

“Gaza is an open air prison!”

But doesnt question “why is there a blockade of gaza? How come Egypt has a wall barring Gazans from entering the country that is almost twice as high as the wall Israel built? Why is there a buffer zone from Gaza to Egypt and Gaza to Israel?”

“Civillians are dying!”

Why are civillians dying? Why are Hamas’s human shields Israels problem?

Without Israel much of the middle east would be eyeing the United States. The US did a great job of santising war to the masses. But the hundreds of thousands of dead civillians have created generations of radicalised individuals fed propaganda by their authoritarian tyrants who HATE America.

Why are these young women angry and bitter? It seems as if 2023 is the best time to be a woman…

I don’t think the israel-palestine conflict is a byproduct of woke women… its wokism in general

And as specified earlier I believe this may be the nail in the coffin for political correctness as it has come full circle and now inclusivity and diversity = supporting an isis style terrorist organisation

Although the far left have always had a hard on for Palestine… much of it today is about jews being rich and white whereas palestinians are brown… however Israelis also tend to be brown.

Most of these pro Hamas college students can’t even point to Israel on a map… they hear a few buzzwords and watch a few videos on Al Jazeera (puppet media based in Qatar… where the billionaire leaders of Hamas live…) and form a definitive conclusion.

Notwithstanding many dislike jews despite many having never met a jew before.

I don’t understand why so many seem hardwired to incessantly stick up for the underdog… and I don’t understand why being white is now considered by so many to be a bad thing.

It’s absolutely assinine.

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And Arabs, Palestinians are Arabs, were colonizers, slave traders, bigots, racists, conquerers, patriarchal, etc. In fact, they still are many of those things.

Because it’s more about masculinity. It’s white men who are bad and white men perpetuate whiteness. Masculine virtues are the problem as they give men a competitive edge over women. Calling these virtues white allows these feminists the use of the race card to advance their cause. In other words, they really aren’t fighting racism as much as they are fighting masculinity.

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A good swathe of the pro Palestine crowd consists of men. I don’t think women are at the base of this issue.

It’s by and large a conflict between jews and arabs at the moment. College students who have no stake in the game have gotten involved as they ‘rally for the underdog’.

I can also criticise Israel for incidents of what seems like blatant cruelty. You can find videos of Israeli soldiers mutilating the corpses of Hamas militants if you look hard enough. My argument is always “go back and look at who started this” and “this behaviour isn’t blatantly condoned or encouraged on one side… whereas in Gaza children and adults alike were parading mutilated corpses around town…”

You do BJJ right? Imagine you are walking down the street, and someone decides to pick a fight with you.

Are you going to respect the tap? Or are you going to make sure your opponent is no longer a threat BEFORE letting go.

The October 7th attacks has been compared to 9/11 in terms of how badly the Israeli government and IDF intel failed. There were memos of an attack of this scale including a forty-page document brought forward to the IDF dubbed operation “Jericho wall”.

The document detailed a barrage of rocket attacks, the use of drones to knock out security cameras, infiltrating Israel through land, sea and air. The IDF at the time thought nothing of it as Hamas at the time was not equipped or capable of carrying out such an assault.

A few months prior to October 7th, Hamas militants were drilling a raid on a kibbutz and one IDF analyst spoke up as the nature of the drill eerily replicated the memos from ‘jericho wall’.

This attack could have been prevented had the document been taken seriously. In the year prior to October 7, Hamas bumped recruitment quotas significantly and procured the necessary equipment required to infiltrate Israel.

meanwhile Gazans continue to live in crushing poverty without clean water or adequate access to healthcare and food… but they’ve got plenty of rockets, guns and explosive devices…

Massive intelligence failure on behalf of the Israeli government…

White = masculine? Reverse racism is more a byproduct of backlash towards traditional racism getting out of hand. The pendulum can swing from one wrong to another wrong. Especially as minority demographics have been used as mascots or put up on pedestals.

Two wrongs don’t make a right… and funnily enough the majority of (but not all) of the woke crowd has no tenable connection with the groups they stick up for.

Case in point… queers for Palestine…

614

Are they Muslims?

What we consider masculine virtues, they label as whiteness and white supremacy. You mention supporting the underdog; they see successful people, who happen to be white men, and make the connection that those attributes which contributed to their success must therefore be racist.

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I want to give a shoutout to Shadyside as I had a former college roommate who lived there and I had a prescription for steroids at a pharmacy there, oh so long ago. Fond memories indeed.