The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Also note, UN general assembly resolutions are not legally binding. Additionally, article 80 of the UN charter states:

‘nothing in the [U.N.] Charter shall be construed…to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or peoples or the terms of existing international instruments.’

This would include article 6 of the mandate which encouraged “close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands not required for public use.”

Then there’s the fact that the UN is notoriously anti-Israel - see ‘Zionism is racism’ resolution or Colonel Gaddafi leading the Human Rights Council.[/quote]

… Right or Wrong, when the ENTIRE WORLD says what you are doing is wrong, and you do it anyway, you are wrong… Even when you are right.

… [/quote]

So it follows that if “the entire world” is misinformed, only might makes right.

But let’s talk about “wrong” for a moment. In April 1950, Jordan annexed the West Bank. The Arab League–which had refused the Palestinians the right to have a homeland of their own, preferring instead to take all the Mandate–threatened to expel Jordan, one of its founding members. As a compromise, the Arab League and Jordan agreed in June 1950 that the “annexed” territory was to be held in “trusteeship” by Jordan. The West Bank was never a country, it had been administered territory since before the time of the Ottomans and that status continued after 1967.

So the “law” of occupied territories, it should be noted, does NOT apply to the West Bank–a territory acquired by and occupied by a separate power in 1948. (It should also be remembered that Jordan engaged in ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem in 1948 when it expelled Jews and Christians. And no one cared then.)

A small matter, to be sure, since “the entire world” has declared the truth to be otherwise. But these assertions have no value in a world where might makes law. If the people are not sovereign in the land, then the land belongs to its titled owners. Go find the titles and deeds, if you like. You might be surprised: many–but not all–the Israeli settlements were built on “unowned” property.

Last, regardless of the dubious international law, the settlements are stupid, but stupid to the degree that they cannot be defended and protected–and not more. Not “legal” or “illegal” but to some degree, indefensible. There is a difference between “wrong” and “stupid,” and between the opinion of “the entire world” and “the truth.”

62

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Israel is at a cross road either they will be a Democracy or a Jewish state . But soon they will choose to be one or the other . Maybe they are already there ???[/quote]

How is Israel not a democracy? Arabs in Israel have the right to vote and have parliamentary representation.[/quote]

if you notice the question marks, it may help you understand I am not stating a fact .

If the population is greater part Muslim than Jewish , like let’s say the West Bank . It could be argued that , Israel has a 2 tiered system like Apartheid.

A Democracy would allow the majority to rule

63

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

if you notice the question marks, it may help you understand I am not stating a fact .

If the population is greater part Muslim than Jewish , like let’s say the West Bank . It could be argued that , Israel has a 2 tiered system like Apartheid.

[/quote]

Not really because the West Bank is not part of the state of Israel. Gaza and West Bank are referred to as the Palestinian Territories. Gaza is administered by Hamas and West Bank by Fatah. There are a small number of Jewish settlers in West Bank and some Israeli security outposts.

Like every other civilised country Israel is a representative democracy where all citizens have the right to vote.

64
65

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank[/quote]

Um…yeah?

66

So do I understand that Israel is Occupying the West Bank and the West Bank is a Democracy ?

67

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
So do I understand that Israel is Occupying the West Bank and the West Bank is a Democracy ?[/quote]

West Bank is not part of the state of Israel. Israel has military outposts there to protect Jewish settlers. The Palestinian Authority control regions A and B:

68

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
So do I understand that Israel is Occupying the West Bank and the West Bank is a Democracy ?[/quote]

West Bank is not part of the state of Israel. Israel has military outposts there to protect Jewish settlers. The Palestinian Authority control regions A and B:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_the_Oslo_Accords[/quote]

So they are occupying a majority so a minority can rule ??

69

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
So do I understand that Israel is Occupying the West Bank and the West Bank is a Democracy ?[/quote]

West Bank is not part of the state of Israel. Israel has military outposts there to protect Jewish settlers. The Palestinian Authority control regions A and B:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_the_Oslo_Accords[/quote]

So they are occupying a majority so a minority can rule ??[/quote]

Sigh…the vast majority of the West Bank is autonomously administered by the Palestinian Authority.

70

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
So do I understand that Israel is Occupying the West Bank and the West Bank is a Democracy ?[/quote]

West Bank is not part of the state of Israel. Israel has military outposts there to protect Jewish settlers. The Palestinian Authority control regions A and B:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_the_Oslo_Accords[/quote]

So they are occupying a majority so a minority can rule ??[/quote]

Sigh…the vast majority of the West Bank is autonomously administered by the Palestinian Authority.[/quote]

so that is your definition of a democracy ?

what about this ?

71

so Israel is evicting the Palestinians from their own land and building their own settlement ?

72

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

so that is your definition of a democracy ?

[/quote]

Firstly, I said Israel is a democracy. And West Bank is not part of Israel currently. It’s disputed territory. Disputed territory that is mostly controlled by the Palestinians who vote and elect their own leader. The last elections were disrupted by a civil war between Hamas and Fatah. Fatah lost power in Gaza and now only control West Bank.

That’s because of this:

http://www.idfblog.com/facts-figures/rocket-attacks-toward-israel/

If this^^ stops then the blockade will stop. It’s their decision.

73

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
so Israel is evicting the Palestinians from their own land and building their own settlement ?[/quote]

Israel evicts Jews from illegal settlements - often forcibly dragging them from their homes. It also evicted every single Jew from Gaza leaving it Judenfrei. That’s ethnic cleansing. All to make the Palestinians happy. Once all the Jews are gone then the Palestinians can start killing each other.

74

this says Israels authorizes settlements in West Banks ?

75

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

this says Israels authorizes settlements in West Banks ?[/quote]

Yes. Israeli settlements in the West Bank are built on less than 3% of the land.

76

I guess my question is if Israel is occupying and settling and not giving the Palestinians equal rights , why wouldn’t they bomb Israel ?

I have not researched it but it appears the bombings are not very effective besides psychological ?

77

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I guess my question is if Israel is occupying and settling and not giving the Palestinians equal rights , why wouldn’t they bomb Israel ?

[/quote]

The West Bank is the cradle of Jewish civilisation. They have every right to live there. If the Palestinians were prepared to negotiate they could have their own state. As it is they already have autonomous control over most of the West Bank and all of Gaza.

The reason they’re not effective is because the so called ‘apartheid wall’ keeps the terrorists from the West Bank from entering Israel and the Israeli military in the West Bank controls access to the settlements. That’s why they are there.

78

So the West Bank is not part of Israel , it is Palestine’s territory , Israel is occupying it , Palestine has no right to ask them to leave,
and Israel has every right to be there . Do I understand that correctly ?

I know this is straying from the conversation we are having , but aren’t the Palestinians and the Israelis related by blood .Aren’t they if fact the same race ?

So the West bank would be the cradle to both tribes Samaritans ?

79

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
So the West Bank is not part of Israel , it is Palestine’s territory , Israel is occupying it , Palestine has no right to ask them to leave,
and Israel has every right to be there . Do I understand that correctly ?

I know this is straying from the conversation we are having , but aren’t the Palestinians and the Israelis related by blood .Aren’t they if fact the same race ?

So the West bank would be the cradle to both tribes Samaritans ? [/quote]

The West Bank is disputed territory. If a future Palestinian state is created most of the West Bank will be Palestinian and a small part will be Israeli. Currently it is officially not part of any state. The Israelis have several cities there with populations of 30,000, 16,000 etc. The division of the territory would involve Israel taking the Jewish areas and the Palestinians taking the Arab areas. It is also very likely that the Israelis would be expected to evacuate some areas. 9000 Jews were evacuated from Gaza but it would be quite difficult to evacuate entire cities so I don’t think Israel would agree to a complete evacuation of West Bank. There’s also the problems of East Jerusalem, where a Palestinian capital would be located and the fact that Gaza and West Bank are not contiguous.

The Jews and Arabs are not the same race but they are both Semitic peoples and relatively closely related. The Jews and Arabs have much in common - linguistically, culturally etc. It’s a shame anti-Semitism is so rife in the Arab world.

80

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

So the West bank would be the cradle to both tribes Samaritans ? [/quote]

The cradle of Arab civilisation is the Arabian peninsular.