Isn’t @bwags a rather new member? I would say we ease up a little until he gets his bearings and begins to understand the nuances of various members.
We have a vast variety of personalities.
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I agree. Let’s destroy each other’s arguments vs characters
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I’ve already established the only real solution here: front squats.
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Yup, I am done here, must be all the steroid abuse I did in the past that made me stupid and incomprehensible. I wish I could take a steroid that is a cutting steroid but apparently you say steroids don’t make you lose weight, you must be the smart one here at the forum. I am way below the intelligence level here from all you wonderful guys high five-ing yourselves. I will leave now and please have fun without me at your next circle jerk. Promise this time.
Hey there young man. You’re jacked and should stick around. Maybe not this thread, but definitely the forum.
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I apologize for my behavior.
The only thing I should have said was thank you for your service, freedom is not free.
Be well.
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Man, I read through all of this and I still don’t know if these responses are serious or in jest.
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It’s confusing me too, very bipolar
Came in here for an article about form.
Turned into a natty or not.
Asked questions, got roasted.
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Stick around man. You’re yoked, kinda wierd and volatile. I like that.
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To get somewhat back on track, anyone see Dorian Yates recently? I’d wager he could still teach me something. More importantly, I just wanted to point out I’m bigger than (a) Mr. Olympia.
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I hope you guys aren’t thinking that I believe that you should never listen to an enhanced lifter as that is not what I’ve said. It seems that people are countering in a way that’s implied I have. What I’m actually saying is that through knowledge that I’ve gathered, including from articles here from some of the most well-decorated coaches in the industry is that enhanced users will get away with a lot of stuff a natural wouldn’t, so more careful consideration is needed if natural. There are studies where a drug user can gain 7lbs of muscle in 10 weeks without even going to the gym, MPS being at a heightened level 24/7, not needing to stimulate it with the workout. Too much volume or not enough, he will be fine (pretty sure that was from Thibaudeau). Too much volume or not enough can completely stall a natural. Enhanced users also don’t get crippled by cortisol as much.
My original comment was pertaining to the geared up guy that has never trained anyone but himself, never took any time as a natural and can get away with walking in, never breaking a sweat, never lifting anything for less than 15 reps, and still make amazing progress. His body does the talking rather than any real knowledge. Am I wrong to never listen to that guy?
Ultimately I’m here to learn and I am aware that I am nowhere near the experience, strength, muscle size, or knowledge level of a lot of you. I fully recognize that everything works, and with consistency and effort, people can succeed with any program whether it’s written by Mr. Juice or Mr. Won’t Even Take Creatine.
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I don’t think anyone is coming down on you - it’s totally fine for us to have different thoughts/ opinions!
I don’t think you’re wrong to never listen to that guy, I’ve just personally not encountered this person. I do remember I had one guy that could sleep in his cot all day, roll over to eat some poptarts, and then outdo everyone else on everything and look like a fitness model while doing it. He was just born better, though; he wasn’t taking anything.
I’m not sure how I feel about this one one way or the other. It just feels more likely to me that natural hypertrophy progress is so slow we think we’re doing something wrong, then we get pissed and take a break that serves as a deload, come back and hit something we couldn’t do while fatigued, and decide it’s the lower volume that did it. Or we give up altogether because it really is just going to be a slower road for us.
Again, these are just my thoughts. Keep coming with yours. This thread got sensitive! Nothing is an attack - we’re all just fleshing our thoughts out.
Since you started this thread about high volume, low volume, natural, enhanced, etc., let me ask if there are people out there who are advocates of a low volume twice a week way of training, but with great effort. In style Stuart McRobert or Brooks Kubik. And if the answer is yes, have you had success with such a way of training. I personally don’t believe that especially in the style of McRobert. With Kubik, you still lift heavy and with more volume.
Emphasis mine.
Thats not gear: thats genetics. Gear is assisting, but AMAZING progress from that approach takes something you dont get from a bottle
You’re lucky. I see tons of these kinds of people. Beginning of the week off to Eastern Europe to get their brand new Turkey Teeth, midweek 4,000 one-arm cable flies, Saturday is big arms pump for an hour before picking up their coke and hitting the club. Back Tuesday for another low effort workout, still bigger than most of the guys there. I know genetics are a massive factor, but damn.
This is a common occurrence for lots of people who train. They do a program for 6 months, switch to something else, make fast progress and then think it’s the new program that is amazing when it was simply the change itself that spurred new progress on. Exactly the same as what you say “high volume doesn’t work, I’m gonna go low volume”. Recovery from high-volume happens + the new novelty stimulus of lower volume higher intensity training and it’s “OMG WOW I SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ALL ALONG”. There are tons of guys that have been doing too much for too long that would likely profit from switching to a 3-day full boy program, but there are probably an equal amount that could profit for a short time doing a 5 or 6-day program. This is why all the “what’s the best split/what’s the best program” questions are mostly bullshit. In spite of that though, steroid users do have better recovery so can handle higher volumes, no? That is not to say that work capacity cannot be built as a natural.
I didn’t pay much attention to the rest of the thread when it started going a bit south and people were insulting each other. I get that being pigeon-holed amongst that doesn’t help.
Just because it’s not something you’re used to seeing doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Stuart McRobert has quite a few books people regard highly, on top of a TON of articles. Any of the old school worth their salt respect him greatly so it would be wrong to dismiss his low-volume approach that has worked for so many.
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I’m not rejecting it, I just wanted to say that I don’t believe it will work for me. Since you mentioned Dorian, he himself says that at one point he tried training at a higher volume, like Arnold did for example, and in just a couple of weeks he felt like a rag. Which means that not every body responds equally well to different training styles. Perhaps there are only three basic principles of muscle growth that are universally valid. But they can be applied in any approach.
Maybe? I honestly don’t know. I think the counter argument would be, even if they can recover better, they’re lifting heavier loads so it’s more fatiguing - shouldn’t that even out?
On this subject, although a bit of a digression, I was just watching a Ronnie Coleman thing on Netflix (dude seems like a super nice guy) and Jay Cutler was talking about he chose to do a higher volume approach to make up for lifting relatively lighter loads.
Here’s a question back: what is “high” volume?
Stuart McRobert
I’m two weeks into his 3-day/week from an article on this site and it still feels fairly heavy to me. 6-8 reps that I can grind out with good form and without help on the first work set is more than what I consider moderate weight. Following up with the same effort for a 10-12 rep set, then onto the next exercise and so on adds up a little faster than I anticipated. Maybe it’s because I work a physical job or perhaps I’m simply getting old?
I see the advice from Mr. Staley as akin to “Don’t snatch defeat from the jaws of victory”.
Like, “ok, form is good- now start adding weight.”.
Not “Form is good, so now we’re going to waste time making it even better at the expense of progress.”.
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