The Importance of Good Form

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Scrotus wrote:

Some of the most genetically gifted guys I know dont lift,[/quote]

We aren’t talking about “a little muscular”. We are talking about people who are EXTREMELY MUSCULAR which usually takes weight lifting unless they look like Michael Lockett straight out the womb. He, by the way, also has to lift to look like that.

[quote]
or half ass it, and arent as strong as some of the less gifted guys I know. My brother, for example, doesnt lift, eats one or two meals a day(think pizza and quesadilla’s) and was 200 lbs(at 5’8" and could do about 10 reps with 200lbs on the bench press), and is more muscular than 90-95% of the population. He is down to 180 from not eating, but still has 15+ inch arms. [/quote]

Wow…15+" arms. I had 15" arms as a beginner and I thought that was below average. I had no clue people were considering that “built” until I started logging in here.

[quote]
My other brother, is about 6’, weighs between 170 and 200(my guess) and can deadlift 300 lbs, without ever training a day in his life. The only excercise he gets is when his pickup was fucked up he would walk the 5 or so miles to his friends house, didnt play sports or do sprints or nothing.

Then there are guys on here I read about who it took 3+ years of dedicated training to get to that level, but eventually are way past that. And in the end, the less gifted guy is much stronger and bigger/more impressive because he put the time and effort in.

Yeah I know my brothers arent as gifted as dorian yates or ronnie coleman or andy bolton etc, but they are at the top end of the spectrum, or so I was led to beleive by what others here say about their own experiences.
For 99.99% of the poplulation Time and effort are the most important thing to get results.[/quote]

I am not worried about 99% of the population. I’m not even worried about 90% of the population. I can be better built than “90% of the population” by simply not being fat as hell and carrying my own groceries to the car on a regular basis.

Clearly, the term “genetically gifted” has been watered down significantly.

300lbs deadlift?

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Scrotus wrote:

Some of the most genetically gifted guys I know dont lift,

We aren’t talking about “a little muscular”. We are talking about people who are EXTREMELY MUSCULAR which usually takes weight lifting unless they look like Michael Lockett straight out the womb. He, by the way, also has to lift to look like that.

or half ass it, and arent as strong as some of the less gifted guys I know. My brother, for example, doesnt lift, eats one or two meals a day(think pizza and quesadilla’s) and was 200 lbs(at 5’8" and could do about 10 reps with 200lbs on the bench press), and is more muscular than 90-95% of the population. He is down to 180 from not eating, but still has 15+ inch arms.

Wow…15+" arms. I had 15" arms as a beginner and I thought that was below average. I had no clue people were considering that “built” until I started logging in here.

My other brother, is about 6’, weighs between 170 and 200(my guess) and can deadlift 300 lbs, without ever training a day in his life. The only excercise he gets is when his pickup was fucked up he would walk the 5 or so miles to his friends house, didnt play sports or do sprints or nothing.

Then there are guys on here I read about who it took 3+ years of dedicated training to get to that level, but eventually are way past that. And in the end, the less gifted guy is much stronger and bigger/more impressive because he put the time and effort in.

Yeah I know my brothers arent as gifted as dorian yates or ronnie coleman or andy bolton etc, but they are at the top end of the spectrum, or so I was led to beleive by what others here say about their own experiences.
For 99.99% of the poplulation Time and effort are the most important thing to get results.

I am not worried about 99% of the population. I’m not even worried about 90% of the population. I can be better built than “90% of the population” by simply not being fat as hell and carrying my own groceries to the car on a regular basis.

Clearly, the term “genetically gifted” has been watered down significantly.

300lbs deadlift? [/quote]

Hopefully the post you replied to was a joke just like the one I reply to.
The one you picked was so long I was not willing to address it. 15+ inch arms naturally? was that flexed or un-flexed?

43

Lol, my arms are like 16.5 inches and people call me huge and I’m like you people are crazy. But I’m only a few months into my second year of working out so…

I also noticed myself that the extremely huge guys at my gym are all very nice except for one of them. A few of my friends that I know at my gym made a little joke about the biggest guys in our gym, we all gave them a nickname. We called this huge ass dude (he’s very nice but we’ve seen him pissed off) The Hulk, this really nice strong guy Superman, this enormous guy that works out with his huge son Batman and Robin, the biggest black guy Green Lantern (nothing racial, we even told him) and the mean guy, Capitan Evil.

Now the mean guy is a huge dick all my friends hate him. He comes in the gym when it’s jam packed and he takes up like 2 machines, he’s got this American Bad ass tattoo on his neck and everyone is scared to tell him I was using that or so and so. 1 day he took my machine and I was like I was using that, he’s like you snooze you loose, and I was like flat out pissed that day, so I’m like listen buddy if you want to hop in and do it with me it’s fine your not taking my machine. And ever since I’ve been cool with him, he gives me tips and spots and I spot him etc.

When I asked him about form today he told me the same thing someone else told me earlier. He said you know if I’m curling so and so and I get to 6 reps and I know if I cheat a little bit I can do more I will.

As far as genetics go, I don’t care for them much, I hear people talking about, this guy looks that big because of genetics I’ve seen him lift he’s weak this and that blah blah, whatever.

44

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Scrotus wrote:

Some of the most genetically gifted guys I know dont lift,

We aren’t talking about “a little muscular”. We are talking about people who are EXTREMELY MUSCULAR which usually takes weight lifting unless they look like Michael Lockett straight out the womb. He, by the way, also has to lift to look like that.

or half ass it, and arent as strong as some of the less gifted guys I know. My brother, for example, doesnt lift, eats one or two meals a day(think pizza and quesadilla’s) and was 200 lbs(at 5’8" and could do about 10 reps with 200lbs on the bench press), and is more muscular than 90-95% of the population. He is down to 180 from not eating, but still has 15+ inch arms.

Wow…15+" arms. I had 15" arms as a beginner and I thought that was below average. I had no clue people were considering that “built” until I started logging in here.

My other brother, is about 6’, weighs between 170 and 200(my guess) and can deadlift 300 lbs, without ever training a day in his life. The only excercise he gets is when his pickup was fucked up he would walk the 5 or so miles to his friends house, didnt play sports or do sprints or nothing.

Then there are guys on here I read about who it took 3+ years of dedicated training to get to that level, but eventually are way past that. And in the end, the less gifted guy is much stronger and bigger/more impressive because he put the time and effort in.

Yeah I know my brothers arent as gifted as dorian yates or ronnie coleman or andy bolton etc, but they are at the top end of the spectrum, or so I was led to beleive by what others here say about their own experiences.
For 99.99% of the poplulation Time and effort are the most important thing to get results.

I am not worried about 99% of the population. I’m not even worried about 90% of the population. I can be better built than “90% of the population” by simply not being fat as hell and carrying my own groceries to the car on a regular basis.

Clearly, the term “genetically gifted” has been watered down significantly.

300lbs deadlift?

Hopefully the post you replied to was a joke just like the one I reply to.
The one you picked was so long I was not willing to address it. 15+ inch arms naturally? was that flexed or un-flexed? [/quote]

Why would you measure your arms unflexed?

15 inch arms naturally really isnt that inconceivable

45

[quote]Mishimaster wrote:
<<< No of course I completely understand what you mean. Like it’s hard to say about the too big thing, it has nothing to do with me not making progress, I’m actually making great progress.

Like I’d like to be bigger then I am now (of course) but I see some dudes, they are so huge they can’t even scratch their own ass, you know what I mean? lol, it’s hard to word it. I mean I’ve been called huge by people my age even though I don’t think I am at all, I think I’m pretty good at least. It’s just a personal preference, by “too big” I mean like some of the dudes in my gym that are like “monsters”, hard to say, as I said to the point where I like. >>>[/quote]

The reason I ask is because I am convinced that many more, especially young guys would actually like to be bigger than they say, but inadvertently underachieve because they think only somebody else who’s also on drugs can wind up substantially bigger than when they start. Therefore as a safeguard against failure they comfort themselves by thinking that they never really could make THAT much progress anyway, so might as well shoot low.

Are you anywhere near

46

[quote]BlakeAJackson wrote:
medevac wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:
medevac wrote:
There was this guy at the gym last night who was doing tricep extensions with terrible form. Not only was he swaying with the weight and using all sorts of body motion, but he was doing isolated tricep work before his chest work. HELLO.

I would have said something to him but his arms were bigger than my thighs. Damn roids and genetics.

May be he has learned he is triceps dominant and wanted to exhaust them before hitting chest so that they were removed from his chest work. This seems like the obvious explanation since his arms are bigger than you thighs, he must have a reason since he has proven he can get results.

That whistling sound is my post whizzing over your head.

BTW another thing I’ve noticed, this guy at my gym in particular…why are the biggest guys also the nicest and most fun to have around the gym? And for some reason the newbies aren’t too bad and just seem happy to get out of your way. But intermediate guys are brooding douches?

You already new that. I guess that I have not read any of your other posts. Sorry. I get the sarcastic tone now when I reread it.
[/quote]
eh, the interweb isn’t always the best place to try to inflect sarcasm. You’d be surprised how many times what I posted is actually posted here seriously. :frowning:

47

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Mishimaster wrote:
<<< No of course I completely understand what you mean. Like it’s hard to say about the too big thing, it has nothing to do with me not making progress, I’m actually making great progress.

Like I’d like to be bigger then I am now (of course) but I see some dudes, they are so huge they can’t even scratch their own ass, you know what I mean? lol, it’s hard to word it. I mean I’ve been called huge by people my age even though I don’t think I am at all, I think I’m pretty good at least. It’s just a personal preference, by “too big” I mean like some of the dudes in my gym that are like “monsters”, hard to say, as I said to the point where I like. >>>

The reason I ask is because I am convinced that many more, especially young guys would actually like to be bigger than they say, but inadvertently underachieve because they think only somebody else who’s also on drugs can wind up substantially bigger than when they start. Therefore as a safeguard against failure they comfort themselves by thinking that they never really could make THAT much progress anyway, so might as well shoot low.

Are you anywhere near [/quote]

Oh I understand what you mean now. Well I’m not exactly shooting low but I’m not shooting to be the size of a pro body builder either. It’s just a preference.

48

I was coaching this young kid, lets call him Zeb. And we had figured out the routine, and I wanted him to finish the sets as we had planned (from previous session) but beating the numbers on the 3 working sets.

Anyway, I ask him to do the last set and he said he was too tired. I said “the point is to beat the last workout convincingly, how the hell do you expect to progress without doing that”, and he goes “Its not like I;m looking to be massive and stuff. I;m happy with being just a little bigger a few months later. Relax”.

The trouble with that mindset is that you will soon begin to assume that if doing 100% of a routine you planned will get you a certain result (that you overestimate anyway), then half assing through 50% of it will get you 50% of the intended result. And since youre not trying to be MASSIVE, brah…its ok. Things don;t work that way.

Its possible that if you follow Ronnie Coleman’s diet and exercise regime (WITH his drug use) for as long as he has trained, you may STILL end up far smaller than even Brad Pitt in fight club.

To get ANY result whatsoever, you need to go balls-to-the-wall and see where you end up years down the line. So fretting about statements like “I don;t want to be too big” will ONLY set you up for a half-ass mindset in the gym and in the kitchen, which will lead to you looking NO bigger and/or leaner (to the average observer) 5 years down the line.

YOu need to train to your limits anyway, EVEN if you want to look like Christian Bale or whatever hearththrob you kids like these days…have I made myself clear, youngblood?

[quote]Mishimaster wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Mishimaster wrote:
<<< No of course I completely understand what you mean. Like it’s hard to say about the too big thing, it has nothing to do with me not making progress, I’m actually making great progress.

Like I’d like to be bigger then I am now (of course) but I see some dudes, they are so huge they can’t even scratch their own ass, you know what I mean? lol, it’s hard to word it.

I mean I’ve been called huge by people my age even though I don’t think I am at all, I think I’m pretty good at least. It’s just a personal preference, by “too big” I mean like some of the dudes in my gym that are like “monsters”, hard to say, as I said to the point where I like. >>>

The reason I ask is because I am convinced that many more, especially young guys would actually like to be bigger than they say, but inadvertently underachieve because they think only somebody else who’s also on drugs can wind up substantially bigger than when they start.

Therefore as a safeguard against failure they comfort themselves by thinking that they never really could make THAT much progress anyway, so might as well shoot low.

Are you anywhere near

Oh I understand what you mean now. Well I’m not exactly shooting low but I’m not shooting to be the size of a pro body builder either. It’s just a preference.[/quote]

49

[quote]UkpairehMombooto wrote:

Anyway, I ask him to do the last set and he said he was too tired.
[/quote]

This sort of thing just boggles my mind.

Isn’t the whole point of a weight training session…to do the weight training session? Even if you’re tired? Hell, isn’t it SUPPOSED to make you tired, in an anaerobic sort of way?

…Sheesh.

50

[photo]3124[/photo]

I saw this awhile ago and thought it was pretty genius… This is a quote (and pic) from T-Nation member “t-ha” and it pretty much destroys the “i don’t want to get too big” fallacy.

51

[quote]UkpairehMombooto wrote:
I was coaching this young kid, lets call him Zeb. And we had figured out the routine, and I wanted him to finish the sets as we had planned (from previous session) but beating the numbers on the 3 working sets.

Anyway, I ask him to do the last set and he said he was too tired. I said “the point is to beat the last workout convincingly, how the hell do you expect to progress without doing that”, and he goes “Its not like I;m looking to be massive and stuff. I;m happy with being just a little bigger a few months later. Relax”.

The trouble with that mindset is that you will soon begin to assume that if doing 100% of a routine you planned will get you a certain result (that you overestimate anyway), then half assing through 50% of it will get you 50% of the intended result. And since youre not trying to be MASSIVE, brah…its ok. Things don;t work that way.

Its possible that if you follow Ronnie Coleman’s diet and exercise regime (WITH his drug use) for as long as he has trained, you may STILL end up far smaller than even Brad Pitt in fight club.

To get ANY result whatsoever, you need to go balls-to-the-wall and see where you end up years down the line. So fretting about statements like “I don;t want to be too big” will ONLY set you up for a half-ass mindset in the gym and in the kitchen, which will lead to you looking NO bigger and/or leaner (to the average observer) 5 years down the line.

YOu need to train to your limits anyway, EVEN if you want to look like Christian Bale or whatever hearththrob you kids like these days…have I made myself clear, youngblood?

[/quote]

Yes sir, thanks for the inspiration speech. I never, and I mean ever give up when I’m in there, I never say I’m too tired for my next set. Fuck all that. Thanks for your speech, it was awesome, I’ll remember that.

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Scrotus wrote:

Some of the most genetically gifted guys I know dont lift,

We aren’t talking about “a little muscular”. We are talking about people who are EXTREMELY MUSCULAR which usually takes weight lifting unless they look like Michael Lockett straight out the womb. He, by the way, also has to lift to look like that.

or half ass it, and arent as strong as some of the less gifted guys I know. My brother, for example, doesnt lift, eats one or two meals a day(think pizza and quesadilla’s) and was 200 lbs(at 5’8" and could do about 10 reps with 200lbs on the bench press), and is more muscular than 90-95% of the population. He is down to 180 from not eating, but still has 15+ inch arms.

Wow…15+" arms. I had 15" arms as a beginner and I thought that was below average. I had no clue people were considering that “built” until I started logging in here.

My other brother, is about 6’, weighs between 170 and 200(my guess) and can deadlift 300 lbs, without ever training a day in his life. The only excercise he gets is when his pickup was fucked up he would walk the 5 or so miles to his friends house, didnt play sports or do sprints or nothing.

Then there are guys on here I read about who it took 3+ years of dedicated training to get to that level, but eventually are way past that. And in the end, the less gifted guy is much stronger and bigger/more impressive because he put the time and effort in.

Yeah I know my brothers arent as gifted as dorian yates or ronnie coleman or andy bolton etc, but they are at the top end of the spectrum, or so I was led to beleive by what others here say about their own experiences.
For 99.99% of the poplulation Time and effort are the most important thing to get results.

I am not worried about 99% of the population. I’m not even worried about 90% of the population. I can be better built than “90% of the population” by simply not being fat as hell and carrying my own groceries to the car on a regular basis.

Clearly, the term “genetically gifted” has been watered down significantly.

300lbs deadlift? [/quote]

WHat, I was just rambling. damn cant I ramble without you giving me shit.

Besides I was agreeing that time and effort was the most important factor. Your arguing against me who is agreeing with you. You cant take two stances can you? Maybe you can, I dont know.

Anyways, either one of my brothers could probably pull 600 in 2-3 years if they really wanted to, and had some guidance to not do 3 hour curl and bench routines 4 days a week. It took me less than a year to go from 455 to 605(after switching from the 3 hour curl and bench routine) and my older brother has better genetics than me, I think. He is naturally stockier anyways.

53

[quote]Defekt wrote:
BlakeAJackson wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Scrotus wrote:

Some of the most genetically gifted guys I know dont lift,

We aren’t talking about “a little muscular”. We are talking about people who are EXTREMELY MUSCULAR which usually takes weight lifting unless they look like Michael Lockett straight out the womb. He, by the way, also has to lift to look like that.

or half ass it, and arent as strong as some of the less gifted guys I know. My brother, for example, doesnt lift, eats one or two meals a day(think pizza and quesadilla’s) and was 200 lbs(at 5’8" and could do about 10 reps with 200lbs on the bench press), and is more muscular than 90-95% of the population. He is down to 180 from not eating, but still has 15+ inch arms.

Wow…15+" arms. I had 15" arms as a beginner and I thought that was below average. I had no clue people were considering that “built” until I started logging in here.

My other brother, is about 6’, weighs between 170 and 200(my guess) and can deadlift 300 lbs, without ever training a day in his life. The only excercise he gets is when his pickup was fucked up he would walk the 5 or so miles to his friends house, didnt play sports or do sprints or nothing.

Then there are guys on here I read about who it took 3+ years of dedicated training to get to that level, but eventually are way past that. And in the end, the less gifted guy is much stronger and bigger/more impressive because he put the time and effort in.

Yeah I know my brothers arent as gifted as dorian yates or ronnie coleman or andy bolton etc, but they are at the top end of the spectrum, or so I was led to beleive by what others here say about their own experiences.
For 99.99% of the poplulation Time and effort are the most important thing to get results.

I am not worried about 99% of the population. I’m not even worried about 90% of the population. I can be better built than “90% of the population” by simply not being fat as hell and carrying my own groceries to the car on a regular basis.

Clearly, the term “genetically gifted” has been watered down significantly.

300lbs deadlift?

Hopefully the post you replied to was a joke just like the one I reply to.
The one you picked was so long I was not willing to address it. 15+ inch arms naturally? was that flexed or un-flexed?

Why would you measure your arms unflexed?

15 inch arms naturally really isnt that inconceivable [/quote]

Its not inconceivable, Its not even big, but it is bigger than a large percentage of the weight training population(I am not sure though because mostly I train at home, and there are only maybe a dozen people I have ever seen at school that even look like they lift out of hundreds, and my older brother was bigger than some of them even), if you think it isnt you are either crazy(Edit:I mean dillusional, and also probably dont “see” 99 percent of the people around you), or train at a pretty cool gym. And like I said, he has that without doing anything beyond masturbation and playing world of warcraft.

When he was a little heavier( at about 210) his arms were easily 16 inches maybe 16.5. I am not sure now because he has starved alot of weight off himself cause he is an idiot, but is still larger than a lot of the posters here saying how they wish they could be that big. That is the impression I got from the forum activity here, and what I have seen in the real world.

And genetically gifted doesnt mean you look like arnold without trying, it means you have better genetics than most people, and both of my brothers, without prior physical activity are stronger and bigger than most of the posters here. Obviously not Prof. and some others but still the majority.

The point is even if they are more gifted than most of the population, an average man can pass them up and will be much stronger and bigger with enough time and consistant effort and then their natural talent is meaningless.
edit: I just realized how far off topic we are getting so lets discontinue this.

54

Here’s a useful definition of perfect to keep in mind: Exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose.

If your form doesn’t get you as big or strong as some other form, either your form is not perfect, or that is not your purpose. Please be clear which one it is, so those interested in a discussion on bodybuilding know whether or not to pay attention to you.

55

By ethics I meant I know the numbers I reach are legit. it has nothing to do with morality or guilt. it is really just for comparison and friendly competition.

I don’t think someone is “unethical” if they use poor form.