Attend a few times per month ~ Catholic ~ as of today, would vote for Bush.
Lucid,
I don’t believe it is the religious people of this world that have lost perspective, they are the only ones who have a constant point of reference. If you only learn from your own life experience what are you going to compare them to? Take me for example. I grew up in a place where the police are some of the most corrupt people in our society, does that mean that I should hate the police or disregard the law? If I were to learn only from life experience I would naturally have no respect for the law, but being taught from a young age the principals of Christianity I have a clear understanding of right and wrong, not just legal and ilegal.
Some of us need to have some guidlines. I volenteer with a Christian youth programme that helps teenage boys who have been/are involved with gangs. These kids are some of the most amaizing people I know! They are essensialy good boys who have lost perspective through bad life experiences/lessons. They have no point of reference. That is what we try to instill in them, and the only way we can do this is through the teachings of Christ. In Christ they have a perfect example, an unchanging pillar. Religiouse rehabilitation programmes have by far the highest success rates. Why do you think this is?
What would the world do without the aid that is provided through Christian organisations? Just look at the Catholics, Mormons, Salvation Army. They provide Billions of dollars worth of poverty/disaster relief every year.
I’m truely sorry that you have such a hate for good people of all religions. Our beliefs are what make us us, you are entitled to yours but why arent we entitled to ours? This is the kind of intolerence that starts wars, not religiouse views. Religiouse people are just that, people, people who are alway trying to better themselves no matter where they come from. We all have to start somewhere.
Occasionally attend church, and while I don’t think Bush’s four years have been perfect, I’ll be voting GOP.
And foolish statements like ‘organized religion is a global sickness’ is as ridiculous as the uneducated sewage that fundamentalists spew. Same garbage, different odor.
Is that the liberal “enlightened” way of thinking? How far left has the democratic party moved? Oh my…
That clearly is true, and the problem (for them). Look at the recent democratic primaries, and the candidates. Dean was popular for a while because of his far left views (and ability to energize people’s anger against Bush). Kerry is more liberal then good ol Teddy. A more moderate candidate e.g. Lieberman (sp?) didn’t stand a chance.
KAS: I agree 100%. The part I don’t agree with is someone’s ability to change their minds which makes them “unprincipled” and “sell outs”. If Bush didn’t change his mind about some things he would still be doing coke and drinking to excess. I don’t dislike Christianity, I just think basing government direction and policy on it is somewhat flawed. Its not the basic morality that is the problem, its the imposition of morality that stifles discovery. Abortion probably doesn’t fit into this mold for me but stem cell research most certainly does. I don’t think we need people basing policy because they assume that other people want to “play God”. Way back in the olden days making a fire was probably seen as playing God. I do not like the injection of religious rhetoric into the lives of people that do not choose it for themselves. There were times where people were burned at the stake for thinking that the Earth revolved around the Sun. There are people right now that think you are going “to hell” for doing stem cell resesarch and they will vehemently fight every avenue to do such science. They are resistant to change. Its hard to allow change when you live your life under the thumb of a violently revengeful supreme being.
Basically someone’s spirituality needs to be their business. If they want to show people the way to happiness through their actions that is great. I don’t really want to read about people suffering because the government doesn’t think someone should use free pot to assist with their disease rather than pay some pharmaceutical company bazillions of dollars to do less. I don’t want to hear about people limiting stem cell research that is extremely promising for all forms of medicine because “God said so”. Leave God for sunday school and get real.
lucid,
You just don’t get it. I’ll say a prayer for you and wish you the best. I hope that someday, you will find wisdom. I mean that in the most compassionate way. There is nothing that I can argue that will help you in your quest for enlightenment, so I can only have hope for you.
~ jackzepplin
Please, always keep in mind, that the sanctity of human life is the most important thing in our world, regardless of your beliefs. Stem-cell research (specifically referring to harvesting embryos), like abortion, does not respect human life.
Have been to church a handful of times in my life.
Voting for George W. Bush
This has been an interesting read. I’m a christian young man saved at 17 years old even though I went to church all of my life. I was too young to vote the last election but my vote will make a difference this year. I will say this: when you mix church and state you have a lot of conflict. Im going to vote for the best candidate that is available and that will try to follow most of things he is trying to campaign about. That survey was ok but I would like to know the particulars behind it. Just because you go to church doesnt mean your are saved.(I’m a true witness of that) I know there was one guy who posted that he reads his bible but doesnt go to church. I think its excellent that you read the bible but its also imperative that you go to church to fellowship with other believers. In Hebrews 10:24-25 it talks about not forgetting to assemble with other believers which talks about attending church regularly. You’ll get the added benefit of sharing your belief with others, grow in the word with others, and worship+praise God with other believers. I dont know what I would do if I didnt go to church on a regular basis. I think some people dont go to church because they believe that most people that go are hypocrites(and some are) and dont really take their salvation seriously. I tell people that you will find hypocrites and the like anywhere you go so to use that as an excuse isnt wise. What must realize is that the church is a hospital for sinners and not a showcase for "religious people:. If you go to church for the right reasons it doesnt matter what people think or anything else. As long as its church where you can worship,praise,study and learn more about god’s word than thats the church you should attend. Iff uncertain about what church to attend ask the holy spirit through prayer to guide you to the church that you need to help become closer with Christ through the bible. Goldberg you made an excellent post earlier and I would like to talk to your more about your beliefs and your faith. Pm me when you get the chance. And anyone else that doesnt mind sharing their beliefs and faith you can pm me too. God Bless you all.
Some excellent posts here. I always find it interesting that the “tolerent, inclusive, diversity loving” liberals are the ones that scream the loudest and do everything they can to keep a Christian point of view from being expressed.
I’m secure enough in my beliefs that I can have a discussion about other points of view without doubting myself. It seems that lots of the anti-Christian people are not as secure, because they always try to shut down any open discussions. Hmmmm…
BTW, I go to church several times a week, voted for Bush last time, and will again.
I refuse to support a party that believes it is perfectly acceptable to pull a baby out of it’s mother, poke a hole in it’s head and suck it’s brains out.
Zeb posted
Well…it seems that Lumpy, lucid and RSU fit the mold pretty well! “Do not attend church and will be voting for Kerry.”
What is interesting about two of the posters is that they seem filled with hatred toward Bush and anyone who calls themselves “Christian.” Is that the liberal “enlightened” way of thinking? How far left has the democratic party moved? Oh my…
I have not yet read a post by a Christian on this thread that spews hatred. If this is a microcosm of the rest of our society, you guys are not representing your side very well. Instead of building your side up, you simply attack with a fervor anything that is Christian. What a poor argument. They will tell you that Christians are narrow and hateful people, yet they continue to prove that they are the ones filled with such hatred.
“Judge not lest ye be judged”
“Before you look at the speck in your brothers eye take out the log in your own”
Zeb, as you well know the above comes from your bible! Leave the judging to Jesus Zeb, he knows who spews hatred better then you do! I have never heard RSU, or Lumpy say anything meanspirited or hateful. I have heard them pose questions and state their opinions! Now some of your conservative cohorts have made some pretty evil comments about anybody who disagrees with Bush!
Elk,
Prove it. If I recall correctly, I’ve seen nothing but hatred in many of these forum threads. Some of the responses, conservative and liberal are just down right sick. Some people, like me, are pretty sarcastic, but I cringe at some of the hate that I’ve seen spread from all positions.
End.
Never go to church – voting for Kerry
hi-jack in progress. . .
the real divide is that Christians hold a magico-mythic worldview, non-Christians hold a rationalist worldview – this accounts for approximately 70 percent of the citizens of this country, in both parties – it just happens to be that the rationalists aren’t afraid of going to hell, so they tend to be a little more liberal (but not a lot)
the true liberals are more concerned with the well-being of individuals than with ideology – few politicians can claim this stance (maybe Kucinich, sp?) – true liberals are generally more egalitarian, more “compassionate” (even though Bush has given that word a bad rep), and more open-minded – more capable of holding two opposing viewpoints in mind without exploding – there aren’t many true liberals around, maybe 10-15% of the country
so, really, it’s mythic thinking (God, hell, the devil, and so on) versus rational thinking (nothing is real but physical matter) – they both sound crazy to me
–Bill
Go to Church.
And I’m voting for Kerry.
Good post Beowulf! thats one of the reasons I can NEVER vote democrat. As a related asside: I have yet to understand southern, Christian blacks who support the democrats but call themselves Christians and yet don’t consider the abortion issue. I just don’t get it…I think they are brainwashed since birth that they HAVE to vote democrat…not withstanding people like Ken Hamblin, Armstrong Williams and Larry Elder.
JZ-
Agreed, I my self have gotten pretty fired up and said some pretty sarcastic things, but the two people that Zeb pointed out have probably had more hatred spewed at them especially Lumpy by the Bush crowd then anybody else. I must say RSU has more then anyone else maintained respect for others.
"Well…it seems that Lumpy, lucid and RSU fit the mold pretty well! "
–>ZEB, you’re at it again! If you are to mention us, you must mention that yourself, PtrDr and Goldberg fit the hypothesis as well…don’t revert to your old bag of tricks, my friend.
"Some excellent posts here. I always find it interesting that the “tolerent, inclusive, diversity loving” liberals are the ones that scream the loudest and do everything they can to keep a Christian point of view from being expressed. "
–>No one wants to keep your views from being expressed. We do however want you to leave it out of law making and action taking! GWB does seem to rely on his faith a bit much. Perhaps it’s because there is no reasoning ability for him to fall back on! OOOOOOOHHHHHHH!
Thanks Elk, it takes a whole lot of effort!
Thanks PtrDr.
Regarding the black vote in the south, you’re right in that most of them have always voted democrat and will always vote democrat because…well…because they always have!
And it’s not just a black issue either. I know plenty of good, God-fearing whites that vote straight democrat no matter what. A lot do it because they are union, and they believe that only a democrat can represent them properly, and again, most vote that way because they always have.
I’m a white guy, but live in an area with a large black population, and I’ve asked them about their voting habits. Most will say they vote democrat because that’s the party that does the most to help them. When I point out that the democrats have been “helping” for over 30 years and there has been very little economic improvement so maybe they should consider electing new people, they don’t know what to say. But they keep right on re-electing the same people over and over.
Beowulf67
I know how you feel buddy those poor ignorant minoritys are like children! Maybe we can get you and PtrDr, perhaps Zeb as well, maybe Rainjack to go on a tour of these poor minority areas and get these dumb bastards on board the Bush wagon! Lets get rollin boys on our tour to help the masses!
RightSideUp,
Nothing tricky (or hateful) about me. You know where I stand politically. And I know where you and your professors stand…(wink).
RSU “GWB does seem to rely on his faith a bit much. Perhaps it’s because there is no reasoning ability for him to fall back on”
So when you don’t really have a good, reasoned answer, you just fall back on insults?