There are no implications of “Rapture”. There is plenty of evidence that this universe is intended to support life. Just as religious people burned people at the stake for believing that this planet didn’t revolve around the sun, so the same today in their ignorance. Wake up and listen to what your eyes and ears tell you. That doesn’t limit spirituality in the slightest; it only limits ignorance.
I only get angry about religion when people try to inject it into politics and public policy. Other presidents have been devout in their beliefs, but with Bush it is one of his main marketing tools.
I also don’t like fundamentalists making public policy. For example the president’s Faith Based Iniative. Taxpayer dollars are only going to Christian groups, while Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim groups are underfunded.
In Texas, a Unitarian church was denied tax exempt status. (The Unitarian church is over 500 years old, and many of our founding fathers were Unitarian.)
This is what happens when you have Evangelicals setting public policy based on their personal religious beliefs, and not in the interest of the general public.
Exactly Lumpy. If Christ is someone’s savior that is fine with me. I don’t need the government finding another way to spend tax dollars to front a particular set of beliefs. Bush is irresponsible and doesn’t deserve what America has given him.
I think it was Republican Jesus who said
“Blessed are the war makers, for they shall make pre-emptive strikes”
and
“Give not to the poor, because you are not your brother’s keeper. These people are lazy and are a drain on society. If they can’t take care of themselves, tough luck.”
“Just as religious people burned people at the stake for believing that this planet didn’t revolve around the sun, so the same today in their ignorance.”
So all religious people have to fit your mold? I’m sure there are plenty of intolerant religious people, though I wonder if that number is dwarfed by the number of intolerant nonreligious people. And there are plenty of compassionate, spiritual religious people e.g. Goldberg.
I attend church never and will be voting for John Kerry.
Is anyone really surprised by these stats? Bush may as well be a minister.
ScottL: Where is the compassion? Are you talking about the attempted liberation of another people? It won’t work. It never has worked. Ever. Something like that given has no value and it won’t work. That isn’t compassion that is tyranny. I’m sorry their government sucks. Maybe our government should have been better about supporting that shitty government.
The point is that religion through modern times has always had to back off. Its because reality tends to set in. It doesn’t matter what your viewpoints are, if you ignore science you are a moron and are impeding human beings. There is no religious precept that has impeded science. At least not from blind ignorance. Its the other way around… Its because there are people who are more interested in the truth than that acceptance of cute fantasies to make themselves feel better about the mistakes they make in life.
lucid, u said in a post that science is making religoin take a step back, but i disagree im probably going to get flamed for htis, but tis worth it. There has not been any HARD scientific evidence that has disproved the bible. Now u are right, only a moron ignores science, however, only a moron gives up his idealogy for a few scraps of evidence that something just MIGHT prove the bible wrong. A man that would do that for something he has believed in his whole life, should not even be considered a T-man in my opinion.
Well, basically it’s because some of the (religious) conservative issues are scaring the shit out of most Jews, that’s why! That and the fact that Jews are not, contrary to popular belief, monolithic in thought or action. Also, keep in mind that about 80% of Jews in America are Reform or unafilliated (i.e., not religious). That helps to understand the situation.
Remember, we Jews don’t like the idea of living under the imposing shadow of the Cross. We much prefer to have our political situation “religion free” so we can tend to our own issues without feeling pressure one way or another…the life of a religious minority, I guess.
With that said, PtrDr, the fact that many conservative Christians support Israel is due to:
A) Israel’s enemies are America’s enemies (the obvious argument)
B) Many Christians feel that Israel is the front line in the epic struggle that will lead to Christ’s return (the Messianic argument).
C) Israel is just more “like” America than the tyrant-ridden countries that surround it. We like those who are more like us, unless we are of the self-hating ilk (like the constantly critical extreme left, who always seem soft on dictators, yet hard on Bush and Ashcroft).
And besides, most non-radical democrats support Israel too, so it’s a wash in the eyes of Jews on that issue. As for me, I’ll vote Bush because I can’t bring myself to vote for Kerry and the band of liberals that he would install in his administration. To be honest, I think Bush has been making unfair demands of Israel because he wants to gain the support of Arabs due to the Iraq issue…and if I voted purely on that, I would hate the man. But, I think his heart and brain are on the right side of many issues, so he gets my vote (again).
I never go to church, and I’m probably voting for Bush.
Hmmmmmm, could science be a religion? A set of absolute truths and beliefs by which one defines their worldview and throws all else to the wayside? A powerful enough theory to make an individual respond on an emotional level to a challenge of his beliefs? Lucid, what do you think? Is science what gives you the ability to think and write so clearly, so lucidly? BTW, before you call me a moron and an asshole I do agree with some things you say, just wanted to put a little perspective on things.
On a sidenote, science once said that soy was good, fat was bad, and bald people are ugly.
Im sorry you have so much anger built up towards christianity. You will be hard pressed to find more compassionate person than a Christian. My girlfriend is conservative as it comes and she often goes to McDonalds and buys food for homeless people she sees on the street. She volunteers her time to work with old people and disadvantaged youth. She also gives a tenth of her money to the church which then has programs that help numerous people. That is just one example. You really need to be careful with who you are talking. There was a study done some time ago that showed traditionally conservatives states gave a higher percentage of their income to charities than traditionally liberal states. In fact, the top 20 giving states voted for Bush in the last election.
There are plenty of examples in the Bible of war and conflict. Jesus himself went off in the temple on time. That surely wasnt a compassionate moment.
The Bible teaches that we have the right to self defense Exodus 22:2: “If the thief is caught while breaking in, and is struck so that he dies, there will be no blood guiltiness on his account.” The Bible also tells us to protect the innocent, Deut. 19:10, “So innocent blood will not be shed in the midst of your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, and blood guiltiness be on you.” Also, see “Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin,” (Deut. 24:16).
In both of these cases, the war on terror and liberation of Iraq is warranted. If you dont believe that, it is your right. I believe it and am comfortable with it.
Goldberg:
Whoa, truly well said. Good arguments from others as well.
You guys all keep this up, I know myself and many others may not participate but enjoy reading most of these threads, both for the enjoyment of the completely lost and idiotic as well as well thought out and intelligent posts that leave you staring at your screen in deep thought.
I tried jousting in these boards once myself…
…just didn’t do much to help my side. 
Best left to the pros.
What is interesting is the ever-growing portion of the Republican Party that has been termed “South Park Republicans.” I have read about this particular section of the party, recently on Tech Central Station. Here is an excerpt:
The name stems from the primetime cartoon “South Park” that clearly demonstrates the contrast within the party. The show is widely condemned by some moralists, including members of the Christian right. Yet in spite of its coarse language and base humor, the show persuasively communicates the Republican position on many issues, including hate crime legislation (“a savage hypocrisy”), radical environmentalism, and rampant litigation by ambitious trial lawyers. In one episode, industrious gnomes pick apart myopic anti-corporate rhetoric and teach the main characters about the benefits of capitalism.
South Park Republicans are true Republicans, though they do not look or act like Pat Robertson. They believe in liberty, not conformity. They can enjoy watching The Sopranos even if they are New Jersey Italians. They can appreciate the tight abs of Britney Spears or Brad Pitt without worrying about the nation’s decaying moral fiber. They strongly believe in liberty, personal responsibility, limited government, and free markets. However, they do not live by the edicts of political correctness.
The South Park Republicans are an incredibly diverse group encompassing a variety of nontraditional conservatives, such as the Terminator, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Bruce Willis supported Republicans because of their commitment to lower taxes and fiscal discipline. Rap artist and movie actor LL Cool J recently endorsed NY governor George Pataki. END excerpt
I enjoy masturbation, beer, and watching porn, and if I’m lucky, all three at the same time. I hate people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and Phyllis Schafly. Most important, I also know that someday I will have a family and get married, and hopefully mature. But not yet, and many Republicans like me feel the same way.
I hope that the Republican Party never has a candidate like Pat Robertson running for President, that way, more smart independents or losertarians will eventually see the light.
O.K. I’m done now.
Well…it seems that Lumpy, lucid and RSU fit the mold pretty well! “Do not attend church and will be voting for Kerry.”
What is interesting about two of the posters is that they seem filled with hatred toward Bush and anyone who calls themselves “Christian.” Is that the liberal “enlightened” way of thinking? How far left has the democratic party moved? Oh my…
I have not yet read a post by a Christian on this thread that spews hatred. If this is a microcosm of the rest of our society, you guys are not representing your side very well. Instead of building your side up, you simply attack with a fervor anything that is Christian. What a poor argument. They will tell you that Christians are narrow and hateful people, yet they continue to prove that they are the ones filled with such hatred.
Goldberg,
That was an extremely good post! Furthermore, when you read it, you see no hateful words. Phrases like: “I blieve it and am comfortable with it,” show a person secure in his beliefs, and comfortable with those who oppose it. You also see within his posts quotes from the Bible to back up his position.
Hateful Christian bashing liberals need to take a lesson from Goldberg!
Don’t attend church, voted for Gore, undecided right now.
I never said I would be voting for Kerry. In this election I would just assume not vote at all.
Great posts, Goldberg. While I am not a church goer, I do take time to read the Bible and UNDERSTAND it. I concider myself a moderate democrat but haven’t decided which way I will vote this year. I can say that I do not agree with most of what Bush has done in his term and I’m not sure America can afford 4 more years of it. However, that doesn’t mean I’m sold on Kerry. So, who knows right now.
oh come on lucid…a vote not cast is one for The President! let your hate for him out!..come on and vote!