The French

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

vroom here’s my take, hope you like it:

vroom said: I really don’t start very many political threads.

Zeb said: But you do start them, and when you do they are usually ultra liberal US bashing diatribes (I waited all month to use that word).

vroom said: I do start threads outside the politics forum and of course they are of a very different nature. For starters, they are not political and I don’t carry any arguments, viewpoints or disagreements from here over to there.

Whomever,

I think maybe some of you are having trouble criticizing my opinion so you are now reduced to criticizing me.

Zeb said: Yes vroom, we are just slow Americans, please forgive us as we are not as bright as you are…PULEASE! This is just more of your arrogance on display.

vroom said: Are you suggesting I’m not nice enough and that I don’t say many nice things, and maybe I should just say the things you want to hear? Maybe somebody needs to be screaming out that the emperor has no clothes.

Zeb said: Well vroom…maybe someone does. But, why is it always you? You seem to revel in attacking the US. Why I ask you? Why oh why must we always be your whipping boy (head on hand trembling).

vroom said: I don’t care if you like what I see and comment on. I don’t care if you agree with my opinion. I don’t care if you dislike me and want me to go away. I’m hearing “boo hoo, wauuugh, sniff” and I don’t care.

Zeb said: I am getting the impression that you don’t care…right or wrong?

vroom said: Lacking a reprimand from the good folks here at T-Nation, whom I would most certainly listen to, there is no way I’m going to just sit around and agree with everything just to make a few people around here happy.

Zeb said: No one is asking you that. (Oh…and I don’t want you to go away either…this is fun. However you have my permission to leave only if RSU comes back deal?)

vroom said: I too have people ripping into my opinions on a constant basis and critizing me, taking glee if they can show me wrong, every time I open my mouth. Supposedly I’ve been “owned” various times, “incredibly out of my league” and so on. It seems to be the way the political forums work. Go ahead, crush me. Knock yourself out.

Zeb said: Who owned you, other than me? :slight_smile:

vroom said: Some advice, try this thought… “my opinion is not me”.

Zeb said: Well…no one else is going to claim it that’s for sure. “People we have an opinion that is on the loose. No one is claiming it. If you know who the owner is please tell him to pick up this stray opinion at the office.”

vroom said: I’m here for the information. I feel a large debt of gratitude to T-Nation for providing information and products that have changed my life for the better. I’m here to offer positive contributions in the non-political forums when I think I might have something useful to add. As I become more knowledgeable that will hopefully happen more often.

Zeb said: I too have immense respect for T-Nation! I have read your opinions on the non-political forums and to tell you the truth they are not to bad. I think you should do more of that…but not so much that it takes your time away from your ultra liberal US bashing…afteall, you are who you are. Then again you are not your opinion…oh my.

vrooms said: I don’t know about the rest of you, but the politics forums are a place of entertainment where I can sharpen my writing and debating skills. I may just decide to put them to productive use at some point.

Zeb said: Well…can’t argue with you there. I think you are very entertaining.:slight_smile:

vroom said: I don’t hate the US, I don’t hate you and I don’t hate any of my fellow forumites. I don’t have to say only nice things or pretend to like your viewpoint and I don’t receive or expect to receive that in return either.

Zeb said: Gee, I wonder how you would talk about a country that you actually hate?

vroom said: Are we done whining yet? Maybe y’all need a group hug or something to get over it? Heck, maybe you just need to learn to deal with criticism? Whatever the case, I don’t care.[/quote]

Zeb said: (I hope you are done whinning). There you go again saying you don’t care. Stop that…you care. In fact you care so much you just spent almost an entire post telling us how much you don’t care. This of course means you care. Well…either way I don’t care if you care or not. I know one thing: I care. Ahh who who cares?

(For more of the adventures of vrooms ultra liberal US bashing please stay tuned!)

62

Wow, I’m not only a liberal, I’m an ultra liberal! Ta-Da!

Do I get to wear special underpants and fly around the globe to protect people from the nasty neoconservatives or something?

Fear not oh poor and unemployed, ultra liberal is here to protect your environment and make sure those capitalists don’t enslave you for their greedy profits.

Will I be offered blowjobs from young women a lot now? I mean, Clinton was a super liberal or something and he got them.

Where oh where do these labels come from?

Do ultra liberals like lower taxes and conservative fiscal policy? I might have to change my stance on those issues or my superhero costume could be revoked.

Wow. I don’t think I’ve qualified as ultra anything before. Does this count as winning? Do I have to stop saying I’ve never won anything now?

Thanks for the laugh Zeb. :wink:

63

[quote]vroom wrote:
Wow, I’m not only a liberal, I’m an ultra liberal! Ta-Da!

Do I get to wear special underpants and fly around the globe to protect people from the nasty neoconservatives or something?

Fear not oh poor and unemployed, ultra liberal is here to protect your environment and make sure those capitalists don’t enslave you for their greedy profits.

Will I be offered blowjobs from young women a lot now? I mean, Clinton was a super liberal or something and he got them.

Where oh where do these labels come from?

Do ultra liberals like lower taxes and conservative fiscal policy? I might have to change my stance on those issues or my superhero costume could be revoked.

Wow. I don’t think I’ve qualified as ultra anything before. Does this count as winning? Do I have to stop saying I’ve never won anything now?

Thanks for the laugh Zeb. ;)[/quote]

Anytime pal…keep those posts coming, you know I love yea…in a brotherly way of course…

64

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Interesting responses in the past few days.

I’m glad the French and their descendants have joined the discussion.

We are angry with you for your blatant hypocrisy. You accept bribes from Saddam and then try to act like you are the “world conscience.” You’ll “stop those oil/land hungry Americans!!!”

Ridiculous.

Many of us know exactly what sort of leadership you have now. Chirac is a political opportunist who is trying to position himself as leader of the EU.

I have faith that the EU will continue to summarily reject his candidates (as they already have).

I would go as far as to say that the U.N. will never be taken seriously by many of us until the two-faced French are removed from the security counsel.

In short, the French are a second rate power trying to play nice with the Coalition of the willing and some pretty nasty guys (Arafat/PLO, etc…).
The U.S. isn’t big on countries playing footsies with terrorist organizations.

The most devastating indictment against the current French leadership was when an 80+ year old American who served in Normandy sent back his Legion of Honor to France with a note that said, “Due to your recent actions, I can no longer honor this medal.”

Devastating.

One more point, those of you who are big into the “Bush started this war for personal financial gain” need to change your sources of information.

We are going to do our best to stabilize Iraq, and then leave.

JeffR[/quote]

I have one curious question for you: If you are that much of a hawk and have that strong of a belief for war in general and this war in particular, have you considered enlisting? Or are you content to pursue and defend this war at the cost of other peoples lives and hide in the safety of your war-mongering views.

65

Vroom

I think you are correct that we did not save France and Europe only for reasons that did not include our national interests.

However the concept of shame for your actions and gratitude for services rendered are substantial. The obligation to honor that gift of freedom and the lives of our soldiers is not released by the reciever of such actions but by the bestower.

France has no obligation to do the right thing but they should certainly keep thier elitist mouths shut when we do. That is why I find thier actions deplorable. Thru a lot of travel I am also able to realize that France is not really French anymore due to the influx of immigration.

As the saying goes “if you live under the blanket of freedom how dare you question the way and manor in which it is provided” but that’s one man’s opinion.

66

I’d argue that the receivers have died of old age. You are merely discussing your “own” pride and the lack of recognition the French have for it these days.

67

Hmm… some clarification of facts, both pro- and anti-American:

Start from the beginning: The French did lend assistance with the American Revolution, upon which we signed an alliance with them. 1793 (I think) France has a revolution, asks for American aid, we offer Proclamation of Neutrality, refuse to help France.

Sometime in the 1800s: Napoleon fights Lord Nelson, loses(does not send world into hiding), sent to exile, dies potentially from paint w/ arsenic poisoning.

XYZ Affair: French agents kidnap American diplomats, say that they will not enter negotiations unless US pays them. Generally a jackass thing to do.

WWI: Unclear over whether or not France was really doomed to speak German without American help. However, the British could claim the same thing, “You frogs would be speaking German if not for our help.”
The fact that America was the deciding force is not related to our brute strength or enormous penises, but rather that we entered fresh when everyone else was going on round twelve. If we had fought in the war from the start, then Britain came in with a fresh army at the end and the war ended, would Britain be hailing itself as the conquering hero and saving the US?

WWII: Same thing. While the US did an admirable job in the Pacific, same thing applies to fighting in Europe. If five people were given the task of doing 1000 pullups, and the first four people did 240 each in five hours, then the last person did 40 in four minutes, that last person wouldn’t really be that much of a badass, no? Just a victor due to timing.
Finally, in Operation Overlord, the US took 2 of 5 beaches, the British 2, and the Canadians and French Resistance did the last one.

PS: I’m an American, so don’t bash me with foreigner shit.

68

As I read this thread I’m wondering which part of europe matters to me less.

The part whose ass we kicked, or the part whose ass we saved.

Hmmmm.

69

JeffR:

You talk about the French accepting bribes as if the public is behind it all. If the French Gov. did indeed “accept bribes” then their moral reasons for not supporting the war are phony. However, the majority of the French public did not believe in this war for moral reasons. So I think you ought to clarify as to who you are directing your comments to. There is a world of difference between the public and the government.

You also stated that our government doesn’t like to play footies with terrorists. That would be laughable if it weren’t so incredibly sad.

I mean what the hell were we doing when we were supporting Saddam before? Wasn’t he a bad dictator and engage in terrorist activities during that time? Hey, try telling the East Timorese that America doesn’t support dictators or terrorists. You obviously have no idea what is being done around the world in our name. It is the main reason we are loathed around the world. Some of the greatest terrorist organizations are run out of Washington D.C. by our fearless leaders.

Of course you can’t look to the corporate media(CNN,Rush Limbaugh,New York Times,etc.)to tell you so, as they are busy spewing forth propaganda. It is their job to mold and shape public opinion here and from what can be read on this forum they are doing a great job.

70

No Blood for Chocolate!!

France, U.N. launch Ivory Coast evacuation
Abidjan in the grip of four days of anti-foreigner riots, violence

The Associated Press
Updated: 4:49 a.m. ET Nov. 10, 2004

ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast - France and the United Nations on Wednesday began evacuating thousands of French and other expatriates trapped at U.N. offices and a French military base in a fifth day of anti-foreigner rampages in Ivory Coast?s largest city, French and U.N. officials said.

France alone expected to evacuate between 4,000 to 8,000 of its citizens from across Ivory Coast ? potentially the majority of the 14,000 French still in the former French colony, French Embassy spokesman Francois Guenon said.

?It is on a voluntary basis. We are not going to evacuate all our French citizens because they are too many,? Guenon said.

?We are evaluating the number of those wanting to leave and we have between 4,000 to 8,000 French who have expressed a wish to leave whether temporarily or for good,? he said.

Evacuations started Wednesday morning with a convoy of 40 U.N. personnel, U.N. spokesman Philippe Mathieu said.

The 40 were among more than 1,000 expatriates who have holed up in a U.N. headquarters amid four days of looting and attacks, Mathieu said.

Another more than 1,600 foreigners who have taken refuge in a French military base in Abidjan are to be flown out. They included 985 French and citizens of 42 other countries, the French said.

Country in turmoil

Ivory Coast, the world?s top cocoa producer and West Africa?s economic powerhouse, erupted in turmoil on Saturday after Ivory Coast warplanes killed nine French peacekeepers and an American aid worker in an airstrike on the rebel-held north.

France wiped out the nation?s newly built-up airforce on the tarmac in retaliation, sparking a violent anti-French uprising of looting, burning and attacks by loyalist youths. The turmoil has claimed at least 27 lives and wounded more than 900, with no deaths reported among expatriates.

Heavily armed French forces with three armored vehicles manned a roadblock on the way to Ivory Coast?s international airport.

The airport, controlled by the French military, was reopening on Wednesday for what were expected to be days of flights out.

Abandoned roadblocks of burned tires and burned vehicles lined the route to the airport.

Mathieu, speaking to The Associated Press by telephone as he rode in the U.N. convoy, ended the interview abruptly, saying he was passing through a crowd of loyalist youth.

Three Boeings with space for 250 people each would run what were expected to be days of shuttles to Paris and to Dakar, Senegal, French officials said.
? 2004 The Associated Press.

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[quote]vroom wrote:
The obligation to honor that gift of freedom and the lives of our soldiers is not released by the reciever of such actions but by the bestower.

I’d argue that the receivers have died of old age. You are merely discussing your “own” pride and the lack of recognition the French have for it these days.[/quote]

vroom:

Then you would be wrong! With that attitude you do not respect the memory of the thousands of Americans who served (and the ones who died) during WW two.

My father served in that war and he is alive and well. And he isn’t very happy about the French right now. Does his opinion count? And what of the memories of the men who did serve and die? What would they have wanted us to feel?

I know the answer as an American citizen, do you?

72

My own pride…hmm.

Actually it is collective. It is something my nation did and my family had a stake in.

Much like claiming pride for Canadian efforts because you are Canadian. It is simply something that is done when you are a citizen of a country.

As to France, I still view them as ungrateful but more to the point somewhat irrelevant in the world stage. You cannot rely on past granduer and illusions of greatness to get you thru this century.

73

Road Warrior -“I have one curious question for you: If you are that much of a hawk and have that strong of a belief for war in general and this war in particular, have you considered enlisting? Or are you content to pursue and defend this war at the cost of other peoples lives and hide in the safety of your war-mongering views.”

We have had this out so many times it is not even funny, And we have decicevely on other threads agreed that it is a terrible argument. First off 50% of the country or more is pro war in Iraq. Therefore you are saying that 50% of the country should enlist. This is nonsense and could never happen and should never happen. The other stupid part is that The best people for the military are people who want to go in for the training and the education, specifically 18, 19 and possibly 20 year old kids. Therefore they are still sponge like physically and mentally and in a years time will be twice as effective as say a 25-30 year old who entered at the same time.

Another thing you are missing is that if everyone that was pro war dropped what they were doing and enlisted to the military, the economy would collapse. Well, unless the immigrants and illegals picked up all those jobs.

Ok so if I applied your logic then since you are so against us fighting over there, have you signed up for the iraqi insurgents? if we are so wrong shouldn’t you do your part to correct that wrong?

Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins

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At 52, I have seen my share of wars and conflicts and enlistment is not an option. I never suggested that everyone enlist. Those that are always the most pro-war are those that are least affected by it. The majority of the draftee’s in Viet Nam were from poor, lower class families in the south, not the families/people in power (case in point VP Cheney received 6 deferments during this period). Ask a family whose father just died about how they feel about great cause of Iraq. We are having problems all over the US from schools/education to social security. We are told we don’t have money for these problems, yet we ship billions to Iraq. The biggest problem we have this war is there is no exit strategy. More people have died since Bush declared the “war over” and a success, than when it was on. In the history of the USA, we have always been the protector, now we are the aggressor. Bush claims that he is protecting America by attacking other countries first. What will you say when N. Korea nukes San Francisco, when Israel nukes Palestine or Syria or any other of dozens of scenarios. The USA is setting the precedent for this. It is childish to think others won’t use the same justification. We are falling into the same problem that we had with Viet Nam and that Russia had with Afganistan. Our involvement in Iraq is not preventing terrorism, it is promoting it. Thousands of foreign insurgents are flooding into Iraq, each with their own agenda. Currently Muslims are killing more Iraqis than the coalition. This is not a war in Iraq, it is a war against Islam. This is what really needs to be addressed. It is a worldwide problem/conflict. Just because a person doesn’t unilaterally support this war, does not mean they are soft on terrorism or un-American. In fact, the current administration using this stance is un-American if anything. Since the birth of this country/constitution your greatest right is the abiity to question the government and their actions. Do not blindly give up this right!

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[quote]Then you would be wrong! With that attitude you do not respect the memory of the thousands of Americans who served (and the ones who died) during WW two.

My father served in that war and he is alive and well. And he isn’t very happy about the French right now. Does his opinion count? And what of the memories of the men who did serve and die? What would they have wanted us to feel?
[/quote]

Zeb,

I respect all those that have fought on the right side in WWII, whether or not they were American. Maybe you haven’t been paying attention to what I have written?

Instead of crying about some bullshit, why don’t you answer a question or two some time. When is it appropriate to stop lording their need to be rescued over them. Never? The question is significant.

Honestly, your father, but not you, can lord it over them for his entire life. If he wants to get on here and claim that they owe him for his efforts, then dammit he should. And I would be happy to listen to him do so, for he earned the goddamned right to do so.

What have you done? Do you inherit his sacrifice and honor simply by being his son? You and many others are living off the memories of others instead of having your own actions to stand behind. I do not respect that at all. In fact, it might be considered disrespectful. How do soft and pampered people like most of us dare to claim that for ourselves? How did we earn it?

Rangertab is over there earning it. I’ll thank him and others like him for their efforts, even if I don’t agree with the administration or the policy, and I’ll thank those Canadians that have been in Afghanistan. Those people are earning what people in hear are claiming the French still owe.

Just who are you? What have you done to deserve it? Is it owed to you because of the location of your birth?

Although a great many Canadians died fighting in WWII, including those storming the beaches of Normandy, I don’t claim anything is due to me by the French. Perhaps something is due to those of my grandparents generation, from those of my grandparents generation, but there truly are not that many left. If they choose to bestow that honor and respect to other Canadians, such as myself, that is up to them. It is not for me to demand respect and honor. I am not an overlord, nor is Canada.

WWII will soon fade into a memory as has WWI. Heck, if it didn’t, we’d still be able to claim that 8000 years ago when M’bu defeated your ancient ancestors tribe and the Z’bla came and rescued you that you now owe your fealty to the descendents of Atilla the Hun. When does it end?

As for your father, I have every respect for his effort and sacrifice as I do for all who served. What part of this dichotomy can you not understand?

For once, why not try discussing some of the ISSUES involved in my post instead of slamming the messenger all the time. Is that all you’ve got? Are you a one trick pony? Go earn the special consideration you want so badly instead of demanding it from the past efforts of others.

If you don’t agree, wonderful, argue your point, or attack me, do whatever it is you do. I’m used to it. Besides, I’ve got my ultra liberal costume now, so I’m probably immune.

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vroommiester…

You sound like you are just a bit agitated. True?

You shouldn’t let the ole’ forum get you upset. Relax man, this is supposed to be fun.

Now…let’s see, oh yes you don’t think that we should be aligning ourselves with our ancestors for winning past wars. Is that it? Why am I not surprised at that view?

I will try to keep this short as I have a very pressing engagement which is far more important than arguing with an extreme liberal such as yourself. It’s dinner time!

First off it’s called tradition and heritage! We carry the fine tradition of those brave soilders who fought in World War two. We are proud of them and we agree with the stance that they took. Does this entitle us to wear their medals? No, but it does entitle us to be proud of their efforts.

This translates into national pride! Seeing France act in the way that it has disgraces our ancestors. The very onces who fought and died for that very country. Do you have any national pride? As an American I can tell you that I do. That is at least in part why I resent much of your anti-American rhetoric on this forum, especially during a time of war! Not a matter of not being able to take criticism. It’s a matter of timing, and the constant anti-American blather that comes off your keyboard.

You can rant on about how my generation, or the one that has come after me had nothing to do with World War two. You are technically correct as none of us were even alive at the time. However, you are wrong in that we are proud of our Fathers and Grandfathers, and moreover agreed with their position and would have supported them had we been alive at that time.

Again, this is in part national pride, so I am not sure that you will ever understand that given your ultra (or extreme whichever you prefer) liberal view of the world.

Try as I may I don’t think you will ever “get it.”

77

Holy crap, you actually tried to make a point. I’m amazed. And yes, I am miffed, I appear to be getting a cold and am going to have to miss my visit to the gym this evening. That rankles!

Zebbie, national pride is not the same thing as disdain for the French. I have pride in Canada, being Canadian, but I don’t expect gratitude or servitude from the French for Canadians dying at Normandy.

Also, if you can’t tell, my post or opinion in this matter has nothing at all to do with “liberal” or “republican” issues. If you can’t tell, I’m not always talking politics even though you keep hearing it.

What you seem to be doing is thinking that I am supporting the French or their viewpoint or their actions. That isn’t so. I’m not siding with the French against the US, that is for sure.

I am seeing a kind of hubris from some people that think they are better than everyone else simply by right of birth. It is kind of disgusting to see. Claims of “I’m better than you” and “you don’t count” coming from the star of the team is just plain poor conduct. Your own president gave Kerry shit for this kind of attitude when he didn’t give enough credit to other contributors in Iraq. Too bad this attitude is so prevalent in general with respect to US citizens.

Finally, this “you don’t get it” or “you’ll never get it” sounds kind of elitist to me.

I’m talking generally, not politically, if you can spot the difference, but stop being so damned hypocritical.

78

Finally, this “you don’t get it” or “you’ll never get it” sounds kind of elitist to me.

Vroom -“I’m talking generally, not politically, if you can spot the difference, but stop being so damned hypocritical.”

Zeb -"Try as I may I don’t think you will ever “get it.”

What do your two statements have in common? Look at the first Statement again, I didn’t post who said it on purpose, that is not important. The statemnt is tecnically correct. When one uses statements towards another that project the image that they are somehow inferior to you, this is classified as an elitist statement. This is purely the will of one group trying to establish domanince over the other group. Natural human behavior.

Both of the statements I did quote, are negative statements.The first telling the other he is hypocrytical, Hypocrytical is used in a negative way, therefore the writer views his actions as non-hypocrytical or superior.

The second writer describes how the other is unable to get it. Not getting it is viewed as negative therefore getting it is positive or superior.

anyone out there thinking yet?

79

[quote]vroom wrote:
Holy crap, you actually tried to make a point. I’m amazed. And yes, I am miffed, I appear to be getting a cold and am going to have to miss my visit to the gym this evening. That rankles!

I have been making points-You just never understand them.

Zebbie, national pride is not the same thing as disdain for the French. I have pride in Canada, being Canadian, but I don’t expect gratitude or servitude from the French for Canadians dying at Normandy.

Because of ones national pride he can have disdain for the French. Understand yet?

Also, if you can’t tell, my post or opinion in this matter has nothing at all to do with “liberal” or “republican” issues. If you can’t tell, I’m not always talking politics even though you keep hearing it.

I have found that some ultra liberals, such as yourself don’t understand the pride thing…just and observation.

What you seem to be doing is thinking that I am supporting the French or their viewpoint or their actions. That isn’t so. I’m not siding with the French against the US, that is for sure.

You are always in a position of having to defend yourself becuause of your anti-American stance. Odd huh?

I am seeing a kind of hubris from some people that think they are better than everyone else simply by right of birth. It is kind of disgusting to see. Claims of “I’m better than you” and “you don’t count” coming from the star of the team is just plain poor conduct. Your own president gave Kerry shit for this kind of attitude when he didn’t give enough credit to other contributors in Iraq. Too bad this attitude is so prevalent in general with respect to US citizens.

Now you are claiming that Americans think they are better than everyone else. How will you end up apologizing for that statement? Oh…that’s right you won’t apologize, you will simply explain it away as “tough love.” What a crock of crap!

Finally, this “you don’t get it” or “you’ll never get it” sounds kind of elitist to me.
I’m talking generally, not politically, if you can spot the difference, but stop being so damned hypocritical.[/quote]

vroom, you are still upset huh? You don’t like that fact that you can’t trash talk America on this forum without someone calling you on it…I think that’s funny. :slight_smile:

80

First off, some info on those involved at Juno Beach for Remembrance Day:

Juno Beach: Was divided into Mike(red/white) and Nan(red/white/green) sections. The Royal Winnipeg Rifles, Canadian Scottish Regiment, Royal Regina Rifles, 1st Hussars, Queen’s Own Rifles, North Shore Regiment, Fort Garry Horse were involved in the initial landing. In reserve was Le R?giment de la Chaudi?re of Quebec. The second wave consisted of the Stormont, Dundas, and Glengarry Highlanders, the North Nova Scotia Highlanders, the Highland Light Infantry, and the Sherbrooke Fusiliers. (With support from the RCAF and RCN)

Don’t degrade the sheer courage of the Resistance fighters. The amount of Allied personnel they saved through the underground networks was incredible. Also consider that Hitler was amassing weaponry/training the entire population for war during the 30s. France had absolutely no chance utilizing its World War I strategies.

I will say something bad about the French business community though (all the cool kids are doing it). When you consider uprooting the graves of Allied soldiers to expand an airport I think it is time to re-evaluate your sanity. The people that gave their life to return freedom to France deserve a little better. Fortunately I believe that this idea was dismissed.

Another thing, the Netherlands never ceases to amaze me. Not a month goes by that I don’t hear of a new memorial. I honestly believe that they are more educated about the campaign of the Canadian Armed Forces than 99% of Canadians. Their gratitude is nothing short of amazing.

Also don’t forget about the Americans that volunteered before the US officially declared war.

Lest we forget the original “badasses.” The FSSF.

On a side note, if you guys have some recos. for some good books out there on World War I/II I would love to hear them. I was thinking of picking up Band of Brothers…has anyone read any of Stephen Ambrose books?

And that is my (day before) Remembrance Day rant. To all veterans who curbed the spread of evil, a sincere thank you, the world is yours.