I am not saying that over-prescription of anti-depressants isn’t real. I am saying that neither drug should be over-prescribed and using the fact that one is over-prescribed to justify using the other makes no sense if you do not have a medical reason for it.
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Just tagged you guys because it’s easier than quoting everything from my phone.
I should’ve clarified how I picture my hypothetical use of roids. I would consider using a dose that allows me to be a bit better than average without putting in the work. I picture a physique and strength that is attainable to a young man who does everything right.
I’d consider using for that reason so I could get away with less than perfect nutrition and recovery. I could live a little more loosely and handle my duties as a father and husband without being OCD about training.
This is purely hypothetical and definitely lazy. I don’t think I could take the leap on my own. I’d need a doctor because I doubt understand that stuff enough to risk it. The bad publicity has worked.
My argument is that it should be an option through a doctor. Would it be abused? Absolutely. It already is but guys do it on their own.
@Koestrizer I deal with the generation of instant gratification every day at work. No one wants to earn anything but they demand everything–including happiness. Medicating is normal here.
A couple decades ago they passed a law allowing pharmaceutical companies to advertise. Worst decision ever. They’ve created millions of life long customers. You can’t measure depression or anxiety with a number like you can testosterone. If a patient explains the symptoms, who is the Dr to say they’re not feeling that way? They can’t deny the symptoms because there’s no way to make it black and white. They are basically forced to prescribe what the patient wants.
When it comes to testosterone they can order labs and say “Nope, you’re within the normal range.”
Clinical depression is real. Unfortunately mental illness has become a scapegoat I America. People use it to justify their behavior instead of being held accountable for their actions.
Prime example:
I was dealing with a drunk and he said he was on disability. I asked what his disability was and he said he had anti social disorder. He went on to tell me that he’s an asshole and doesn’t like being told what to do (his words). That made it to where he couldn’t keep a job so he managed to get free money instead.
America at its finest.
Dude, do you know that people can screw up their HPTA simply by using dbol, which, if going by studies, “only” suppresses it by 58% as opposed to exogenous testosterone, which would be 100%?
TRT may not even be a perfectly safe option since it’s relatively new and we don’t have enough medical literature to say for certain but the fact is, at this point in time, the therapeutic effects far outweigh the potential detriments when it comes to quality of life for people who are really hypogonadal. It’s simply a case of risks vs rewards.
Even if someone were to walk into a TRT clinic with low T, it may be a result of a host of other factors which would not even necessitate the need for testosterone administration to solve. The “doctors” in the TRT forum may have you believe otherwise, though. Then you find out that one idiot giving advice had been using 1g of test for a year because he thought it equated to bringing his levels to 1,000ng/dl.
I couldn’t care less how much "hard work* one puts into attaining his desired goals. If there was a drug with absolutely no side effects nor any long lasting effects on my body functions that lets me maintain my physique without even lifting, I would gladly take it and go home and play with my cats.
Yeah I would say that’s a fair assessment of what I’m referring to in part. More so, I was referring to a workout I had just completed that kicked my ass, and it included single leg press. I was either going to pass out or puke, and the leg press was a big part of that. This has happened the past 3 weeks with this same workout. I’m sure the other components of the workout are part of the pain, but the leg press is the part I most dread. Single Leg…highish reps, part of a superset…ehhhhhh you see what I mean.
I just made that comparison to get a rise out of someone. I knew someone would have a problem with it lol. Everything hurts in some capacity if you’re working hard.
Confession: Everything has been so busy and everything has been a perfect storm in my life for so long (gym closed, school closed, unable to get out of the house, etc.) that I think I’ve trained 3 times in the last 2 weeks. Two of those times were PR squat and deadlift attempts, and my most recent training session (5 days ago as of today) was a very light squat, bench, deadlift session. Shit.
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Doing the tag thing too since quotes are a bit much here doing a little catch up.
I really have no stake in the TRT/roid game, but when I think about them the comparison to prescription medications never crosses my mind.
What I consider is that someone using or possessing them can be fined/jailed/imprisoned or any other kind of life altering consequence. I think that’s pretty dumb. I understand that there are health risks involved, but alcohol and tobacco products are readily available and arguably more dangerous.
Just my opinion but I don’t see why steroids should be treated the same legally as meth or heroin.
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I absolutely don’t think they should be. It’s absurd.
I also don’t think they are as potentially harmful as excessive alcohol consumption, but then, I don’t drink at all.
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Not really a problem, just lack of agreeing experience. I haven’t yet found anything as uncomfortable as squatting 135 100+ times.
I don’t know how many reps it was, but when I was running a C&P inspired split, I did 2 sets of 5 minute squatting with 135 and it was horrible. I had muscle spasms in my legs for two days after. Everyone should try 50+ reps of squats at some point. I always hear about 20 rep squats, but after I did the 5 minute ones, I regularly add 20-40 rep ones because it’s simply not as hard.
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I’m here to confess that I’m open to the idea of doing a steroid cycle sometime in my mid to late 40’s if I’m in a good position to do them (I’m 37 now). I was having dinner at the bar I work at last week and I was discussing this with the owner, who was working behind the bar. He’s done them before, although he’ll be the first to admit that he wasn’t particularly successful with his cycles.
A lady sitting two seats down started laying in to me about this, going off on a rant about how destructive steroids are and how our town doesn’t need any more wife-beating juice heads.
I told her, “I’m a bouncer here and I can assure you that I’ve seen more destructive and reckless behavior on any given night from the drug you’re consuming right now than from anybody I’ve ever known who has taken steroids.”
“You’re one to talk”, she said, pointing at my glass of water.
“Here let me fill your ice water up”, said the bartender.
That really upset her and she then accused me of already taking steroids, pointing out that I was wearing a hoodie with my local powerlifting gym’s logo on the front (if that’s not proof, what is?). Then she got upset at the bartender for not backing her up when she interrupted our conversation to go on an unhinged rant about something she doesn’t know anything about.
I’ll also confess that I actually enjoy conversations like this, which is part of the charm of working in your neighborhood bar.
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Well, I was not serious in the least bit. Was just a joke. Thought that was understood with the exaggeration of 10x more painful along with the following line.
However, lately leg press has been far more painful than squats in my current setup. That’s what drove the comment…the workout that day.
However, 100 reps at 135 sounds terrible.
Wtf is wrong with you?
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Curiosity for examples of masochism drove my questioning, not some zealous compound-lift-free-weight-only idolatry. Had to ask in case you had some magic to share 
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The most painful thing I’ve done is 10 minute sets of double kettlebell jerks, but that’s a whole other realm of idiocy.
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The US and New Zealand are the only countries in the world where this happens. It’s baffling to the other 7.25 billion people on the planet.
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Typical NZ. Like Australia, only worse
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What’s odd to me though is: The Dr.'s are still the gatekeepers of the prescription drugs. If I see an ad for a drug and get convinced that I need it, shouldn’t and MD have the final say in whether I have a disease or need a drug? Or is it the advertising to the idiot patients combined with the drug reps pushing samples on the doctors that skews things?
It’s only been allowed in the US since 1985.
Most ads are intended to influence market share–to convince pts already being treated for a given condition to ask their doc to switch them from one med to another.
But it’s true that other ad campaigns are designed to convince pts they have an undiagnosed condition that is negatively impacting their QOL. (Low T comes to mind.) These ads can be very effective, to the point that the pt comes in demanding treatment for a condition they know they have. If the physician declines to provide treatment, such a pt becomes angry, leaves the practice and (perhaps) crushes the doc on social media and/or doc rating sites. For private-practice docs especially, the possibility of such an outcome creates considerable financial pressure to acquiesce to the pt’s demands.
IMO, the effects of direct-to-consumer pharm advertising amount to a net negative.
As an aside, this topic is yet another reason why HC is a unique commodity.
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What affect do you think that nebulous undiagnosable diseases have on this problem? I’m thinking about things like “restless leg syndrome” for instance.
A Dr. can test for Type 2 Diabetes, or Lupus, hypertension etc… As you pointed out the patient can demand medication B instead of A due to advertising. Which shouldn’t be that big a problem. Doctors often have to try multiple meds on a patient anyway to see which one has side affects the patient can tolerate.
But if a patient demands to be medicated for a “disease” they may or may not have, and can’t be proven one way or another… that’s not good for anyone involved.
I don’t think the advertising causes people to think they need a specific drug. I think it allows them to believe their life well be better if they’re medicated. They go to the doctor thinking they need something. Feelings aren’t quantifiable so doctors aren’t confident in refusing to prescribe something.
For everyone outside of the US.
If you’re curious what the US does then just go to YouTube and search four types of drug commercials. They even advertise signs of autism here. We have billboards in town like “Not making eye contact is a sign of autism”. I’m all about awareness but that’s ridiculous. That causes parents to start looking for problems with paranoia instead of letting things play out and leaving those things to the family doctors.