The Face of Poverty in America

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
…

Going back to the beginning of this thread, it is about NE Ohio, Michigan parts of Illinois and Indiana. These are places where the only jobs available to blue collar employees are minimum wage jobs, and there is so much completion for these minimum wage jobs that the employers are flat out exploiting the workers

That is not true. There are plenty of opportunities available for those that are willing to be retrained, relocated or show some ambition and start their own business. It is only people that are unwilling or unable to try anything that are stuck in minimum wage jobs. [/quote]

I grew up in NE Ohio, I spent last summer in my home town, and it is true. Go to Youngstown Ohio or Flint Michigan and then tell me there are all kinds of opportunity.
I am totally unaware of any program to train and relocate unemployed workers.

I think it is an Ideal situation to go into these abandoned steel mills and pull them out of moth balls. We could fix Ronald Reagan�??s FUCK-UP.

42

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
pat wrote:
There is plenty of opportunity in this country. While there are a few unlucky sods who just get dealt a shit hand, most people choose to be lazy and uneducated.

Those fat bitches in the picture aren’t fat because they can’t afford good food…They’re fat because they eat to damn much and sit on there lazy fucking asses waiting for the next hand out. From the looks of it they look like fence jumpers who are sponging off of a system that doesn’t even belong to them. They obviously jumped that fence a loooong time ago.

You want poverty, go to Darfur where there is no hope, the women get raped regularly. Where there is a wacky, psycho, islamofacist nut job president of Sudan competing with the militias on who gets to genocide those people. That is real poverty. Those fat ho’s can live off their stores for a while…No sympathy from me.

You are probably right to a degree that the people in that picture do lack motivation, they probably watch too much TV and eat too much of the wrong food. But they probably do not know better.

“They probably do not know better”? Are we talking about HUMAN BEINGS or dogs?

You honestly think these people are not capable of muting their cable TV for a moment, putting down the sigs and booze…and thinking to themselves, “Hey I wonder if I can improve my life…and I wonder what steps I would have to take to improve my life?”

Perhaps some do think this and then realize, “Oh wait it would mean leaving my geographical area NEVERMIND!!!”[/quote]

You are right there are some that rise to the occasion, but you can not expect everyone to be above average, some are not the brightest some are discouraged most lack average motivation. But for the grace of god I could be like them.

43

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

You are right there are some that rise to the occasion, but you can not expect everyone to be above average, some are not the brightest some are discouraged most lack average motivation. But for the grace of god I could be like them.
[/quote]

So the question is: Where do we draw the line? How much do we leave to self-motivation and how many systems should be put in place to give security (keeping in mind that such systems do NOT have to be put in place by the government)?

My personal believe is that this country should about FREEDOM first and SAFETY second.

44

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

You are right there are some that rise to the occasion, but you can not expect everyone to be above average, some are not the brightest some are discouraged most lack average motivation. But for the grace of god I could be like them.

So the question is: Where do we draw the line? How much do we leave to self-motivation and how many systems should be put in place to give security (keeping in mind that such systems do NOT have to be put in place by the government)?

My personal believe is that this country should about FREEDOM first and SAFETY second. [/quote]

I agree with your statement on we should have freedom, but we don�??t and I agree with George Carlin �??we have no freedoms, we have privileges�??

I see no way around having a safety net, but my main point is we need to reward workers to get off of welfare , we need any person that works for a living to be paid a livable wage . WE have all kinds of pressures from immigration other wise our free market would probably take care of this problem by itself

45

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I agree with your statement on we should have freedom, but we donâ¿¿t and I agree with George Carlin â¿¿we have no freedoms, we have privilegesâ¿¿
I see no way around having a safety net, but my main point is we need to reward workers to get off of welfare , we need any person that works for a living to be paid a livable wage . WE have all kinds of pressures from immigration other wise our free market would probably take care of this problem by itself

[/quote]

Really, I have no freedom but I do have privileges?

Could you go into more detail?

46

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

I agree with your statement on we should have freedom, but we donâ¿¿t and I agree with George Carlin â¿¿we have no freedoms, we have privilegesâ¿¿
I see no way around having a safety net, but my main point is we need to reward workers to get off of welfare , we need any person that works for a living to be paid a livable wage . WE have all kinds of pressures from immigration other wise our free market would probably take care of this problem by itself

Really, I have no freedom but I do have privileges?

Could you go into more detail?[/quote]

It is the second half starts right around 4 or 5 minuts

47

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

I agree with your statement on we should have freedom, but we donâ¿¿t and I agree with George Carlin â¿¿we have no freedoms, we have privilegesâ¿¿
I see no way around having a safety net, but my main point is we need to reward workers to get off of welfare , we need any person that works for a living to be paid a livable wage . WE have all kinds of pressures from immigration other wise our free market would probably take care of this problem by itself

Really, I have no freedom but I do have privileges?

Could you go into more detail?

It is the second half starts right around 4 or 5 minuts
[/quote]

Okay cute wordplay.

I can’t help but wonder what this has to do with people so lazy they can’t conceive of moving to another part of the US to make money.

48

[quote]NateOrade wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
pittbulll wrote:

I agree with your statement on we should have freedom, but we donâ¿¿t and I agree with George Carlin â¿¿we have no freedoms, we have privilegesâ¿¿
I see no way around having a safety net, but my main point is we need to reward workers to get off of welfare , we need any person that works for a living to be paid a livable wage . WE have all kinds of pressures from immigration other wise our free market would probably take care of this problem by itself

Really, I have no freedom but I do have privileges?

Could you go into more detail?

It is the second half starts right around 4 or 5 minuts

Okay cute wordplay.

I can’t help but wonder what this has to do with people so lazy they can’t conceive of moving to another part of the US to make money.[/quote]

I moved in 1985 , but I paid a couple of heavy prices. I won’t say what they are ,but some may not think it worth it . It comes down to priorities

49

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I moved in 1985 , but I paid a couple of heavy prices. I won’t say what they are ,but some may not think it worth it . It comes down to priorities
[/quote]

Well I obviously can’t comment on your situation specifically.

But I’ll say this:

If someone needs to make drastic changes to prosper, and those changes are met with irrational resistance from family or loved ones…then they should be left behind.

51

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
When you think about it while everyone is personally responsible for their actions…many have grown up in an entitlement atmosphere. Thinking that the government owes you something is not conducive to getting off your fat ass and taking matters into your own hands.

Which by the way is my biggest argument with the democratic party. They pander to the poor and the disenfranchised by telling them repeatedly that their government let them down. This sort of politics may get them elected, but in the final analysis it’s extremely harmful to our country.

And…with Obama on deck I think we will indeed take one more step down.[/quote]

Those entitlements go to oil companies and to tobacco companies to farmers the list goes on. I personally hate to see some one scam the Government, because I too am a tax payer. But the only entitlements people seem to care about is the ones that go to the (POOR)

53

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
When you think about it while everyone is personally responsible for their actions…many have grown up in an entitlement atmosphere. Thinking that the government owes you something is not conducive to getting off your fat ass and taking matters into your own hands.

Which by the way is my biggest argument with the democratic party. They pander to the poor and the disenfranchised by telling them repeatedly that their government let them down. This sort of politics may get them elected, but in the final analysis it’s extremely harmful to our country.

And…with Obama on deck I think we will indeed take one more step down.

Those entitlements go to oil companies and to tobacco companies to farmers the list goes on. I personally hate to see some one scam the Government, because I too am a tax payer. But the only entitlements people seem to care about is the ones that go to the (POOR)

Um…do the math. Look at the investment and the ultimate return. That says it all.
[/quote]

I don’t have the figures and I doubt you do either

54

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
When you think about it while everyone is personally responsible for their actions…many have grown up in an entitlement atmosphere. Thinking that the government owes you something is not conducive to getting off your fat ass and taking matters into your own hands.

Which by the way is my biggest argument with the democratic party. They pander to the poor and the disenfranchised by telling them repeatedly that their government let them down. This sort of politics may get them elected, but in the final analysis it’s extremely harmful to our country.

And…with Obama on deck I think we will indeed take one more step down.

Those entitlements go to oil companies and to tobacco companies to farmers the list goes on. I personally hate to see some one scam the Government, because I too am a tax payer. But the only entitlements people seem to care about is the ones that go to the (POOR)

Um…do the math. Look at the investment and the ultimate return. That says it all.
[/quote]

I don’t have the figures and I doubt you do either

56

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Going back to the beginning of this thread, it is about NE Ohio, Michigan parts of Illinois and Indiana. These are places where the only jobs available to blue collar employees are minimum wage jobs, and there is so much completion for these minimum wage jobs that the employers are flat out exploiting the workers

[/quote]

So the only people that give out jobs in a significant quantity in this area are “exploiting” those workers?

Well, maybe they should move to India where people do not feel “exploited” at half the wages.

Think about it, helping India develop instead of “exploiting” Americans and at half the price…

It is the only moral thing to do…

57

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I grew up poor and I can tell from first-hand experience, that most people who are poor in America deserve it. They don’t bother to graduate from high school, get pregnant at 17 (or younger), or smoke dope…then bitch because life is so ‘unfair’. Is it? Is it really?

NE Ohio has a lot of people who’d rather sit and collect welfare than move to where jobs are. “I can’t relocate! I’d miss my mom!!” Okay, then be unemployed and quit complaining about it.

A lot of inner city kids here never graduate from high school. Cleveland has a rate of 33%. Some of the girls have 2 babies by the time they are 18. The boys hold a job for 2 weeks and then complain because they didn’t get promoted.

Life’s unfair? Yeah…[/quote]

Have you ever taken a Sociology class?

Inner cities have a totally different set of norms than rich folk HH. Inner city folk shine when they do well in school, get good grades, become captain of the football team. These are commonly accepted measures of achievement in wealthier areas. Also known as “social norms.”

In contrast, good grades are frowned upon in a ghetto. Being hardcore is the social norm. The harder, the better the person is viewed as. Chics are not liked for being chaste, they are frowned upon, called names, and socially ostracized.

Do you really think a girl runs out and gets pregnant because she wants to be unpopular, let her parent’s down, and be rejected by the society in which she lives?

That said, lets take a look at government subsidies compared to the food pyramid. I think it looks kind of upside down. Believe it or not, it is more expensive to east a healthy diet that promotes a healthy body than it is to eat a poor diet that causes obesity.

I cannot say there is any excue for the women pictured in the OP, but there is definitely a pattern of weight gain among the lower class.

59

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I grew up poor and I can tell from first-hand experience, that most people who are poor in America deserve it. They don’t bother to graduate from high school, get pregnant at 17 (or younger), or smoke dope…then bitch because life is so ‘unfair’. Is it? Is it really?

NE Ohio has a lot of people who’d rather sit and collect welfare than move to where jobs are. “I can’t relocate! I’d miss my mom!!” Okay, then be unemployed and quit complaining about it.

A lot of inner city kids here never graduate from high school. Cleveland has a rate of 33%. Some of the girls have 2 babies by the time they are 18. The boys hold a job for 2 weeks and then complain because they didn’t get promoted.

Life’s unfair? Yeah…

Have you ever taken a Sociology class?

Inner cities have a totally different set of norms than rich folk HH. Inner city folk shine when they do well in school, get good grades, become captain of the football team. These are commonly accepted measures of achievement in wealthier areas. Also known as “social norms.”

In contrast, good grades are frowned upon in a ghetto. Being hardcore is the social norm. The harder, the better the person is viewed as. Chics are not liked for being chaste, they are frowned upon, called names, and socially ostracized.

Do you really think a girl runs out and gets pregnant because she wants to be unpopular, let her parent’s down, and be rejected by the society in which she lives?

That said, lets take a look at government subsidies compared to the food pyramid. I think it looks kind of upside down. Believe it or not, it is more expensive to east a healthy diet that promotes a healthy body than it is to eat a poor diet that causes obesity.

I cannot say there is any excue for the women pictured in the OP, but there is definitely a pattern of weight gain among the lower class.

[/quote]

Again, if you have too much food and TV, you ain’t fucking poor. If you are morbidly obese, you are eating too fucking much. Poor people can’t afford to feed themselves or their families.

Also, you ain’t gonna ever “cure” poverty. The there will always be poor people. There will be more poor and less poor but they will always be there and there isn’t a damn thing anybody can do about it.

60

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
but there is definitely a pattern of weight gain among the lower class.

Exactly. There is no one starving in the USA.[/quote]

This is a rubbish argument.

There is no one starving in Morocco either. But it doesn’t mean the widening of the social divide is healthy for society.