The USA did very similar to Great Britain what China and Japan do to us — get us addicted to cheap imports while maintaining very high tariffs and regs.
Only a one world government will ever resolve these difficulties.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Talk of GM’s death is very premature. obuma’s latest comments regarding this auto maker would lead most rational people to believe that he will put the full force of the US government behind bailing them out.
Think about it, new President…semi socialist…He’s not letting GM crash.
I’ll be buying shares of GM before the end of the year.
OK, but who is going to be buying the autos that will pull in some profits? Is government going to give everyone $20K to buy a nice new shiny overpriced vehicle?
I’m talking about a short term trade. Buy the stock at around 2.87, sell it when it goes up after the government announces a bail out. Might get a .50 to 1.00 per share short term.
[/quote]
Yeah, maybe. Good luck…and don’t forget to spread the wealth as per Dear Leaders request.
GM isn’t falling to shit because of an inferior product. They are falling to shit because they were the king for so long that they got lazy and set in their ways. They used to be the only game in town, so if the union pissed and moaned, management tossed some money or some no-show jobs at them to keep them happy.
They let much smaller Japanese companies grab chunks of market share by ignoring consumer trends and standing pat because they held the fundamental belief that American people would never buy from the Japanese. They failed to adjust to changing market conditions around the time of the gas crisis in the '70s, when the demand for smaller, fuel efficient cars really took off. The Japanese stepped in and filled that void. Ford and GM were very slow to catch on, arrogantly thinking that it was a passing fad.
Well, now the product has caught up, but it’s far too late. They have been hemorrhaging money for over 15 years, because the Japanese have taken too much market share for GM to be profitable as long as it is run the way it is (huge and inefficient corporate structure, overpaid labor, etc).
The only thing that has kept GM afloat has been GMAC Financial Services. Now, after the credit crisis, even that is losing money.
This is one dinosaur that deserves to die. They basically cut their own throats through poor leadership. Bailing them out will only prolong their bankruptcy for a few years at most. Our tax dollars are better used elsewhere.
Pelosi to the rescue?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ayK8vCH80M2U&refer=home
WASHINGTON ? Congressional Democrats are pushing legislation to send $25 billion in emergency loans to the beleaguered auto industry in exchange for a government ownership stake in the Big Three car companies.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081112/ap_on_go_co/auto_bailout
[quote]Sad ending for a great company.[quote]
Very sad indeed.
What’s so great about a company that’s mismanaged itself into near bankruptcy?
[quote]pookie wrote:
What’s so great about a company that’s mismanaged itself into near bankruptcy?
[/quote]
I don’t consider it mismanagement as more of a Perfect Storm: unions draining the company, our trading partners abusing our free trade policies, government CAFE standards. Its like trying to sail a ship in a hurricane.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I don’t consider it mismanagement as more of a Perfect Storm: unions draining the company, our trading partners abusing our free trade policies, government CAFE standards. Its like trying to sail a ship in a hurricane.[/quote]
Management agreed to whatever union contract they signed.
How does one abuse a free trade agreement? By freely trading?
Your CAFE standards apply to all the other car manufacturers who sell cars in the US and they’re not dying off like flies.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
I don’t consider it mismanagement as more of a Perfect Storm: unions draining the company, our trading partners abusing our free trade policies, government CAFE standards. Its like trying to sail a ship in a hurricane.
Management agreed to whatever union contract they signed.
How does one abuse a free trade agreement? By freely trading?
Your CAFE standards apply to all the other car manufacturers who sell cars in the US and they’re not dying off like flies.
[/quote]
I agree, they shouldn’t have signed the contracts. Free trade is abused when you allow your country to be flooded with cheap imports, while the ‘flooders’ have closed markets. CAFE works better when you produce little bubble cars that already sip gas like a lawnmower would. A Corolla, for ex, used to be not much more than a lawnmower.
Any bailout to the auto industry will be tribute money to the unions:
Detroit’s Symbol of Dysfunction: Paying Employees Not to Work
FLINT, Mich. – In his 34 years working for General Motors Corp., one of Jerry Mellon’s toughest assignments came this January. He spent a week in what workers call the “rubber room.”
The room is a windowless old storage shed for engine parts. It is filled with long tables, Mr. Mellon says, and has space for about 400 employees. They must arrive at 6 a.m. each day and stay until 2:30 p.m., with 45 minutes off for lunch. A supervisor roams the aisles, signing people out when they want to use the bathroom.
Their job: to do nothing.
(Edit) - Full Article (Mar. 2006) here:
http://208.144.115.170/jobhunting/jobloss/20060306-mccracken.html
German money (intended for Opel) might bail GM out. We’ll see.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I agree, they shouldn’t have signed the contracts.[/quote]
Well then, if management signs bad contracts, there’s your mismanagement right there. Nothing great about it, and we don’t need to invoke a Perfect Storm of unforeseeable events to explain it.
That’s not a free trade agreement. If you mean that the markets are “closed” because you’re incapable of selling product in it (because it’s not adapted to the local market), that again is simply the company not being managed correctly to thrive in those markets.
But why were the Japanese car makers able to market those econoboxes in the US market while GM (and Ford, and Chrysler) were unable to do so? Why isn’t there an American equivalent to the Civic? The Golf GTI? The Mazda 3? The Sentra?
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Any bailout to the auto industry will be tribute money to the unions:
Detroit’s Symbol of Dysfunction: Paying Employees Not to Work
FLINT, Mich. – In his 34 years working for General Motors Corp., one of Jerry Mellon’s toughest assignments came this January. He spent a week in what workers call the “rubber room.”
The room is a windowless old storage shed for engine parts. It is filled with long tables, Mr. Mellon says, and has space for about 400 employees.
They must arrive at 6 a.m. each day and stay until 2:30 p.m., with 45 minutes off for lunch. A supervisor roams the aisles, signing people out when they want to use the bathroom.
Their job: to do nothing.
(Edit) - Full Article (Mar. 2006) here:
http://208.144.115.170/jobhunting/jobloss/20060306-mccracken.html
[/quote]
Holy hell… the end is nigh!
I may have figured out the strategy: Republicans will block aid to Detroit in the Senate. The autos will collapse, with millions of jobs vanishing. Then, since this happens on Obama’s perceived watch, he’ll be blamed for this, and a lot of the depression.
Fucking brilliant!
I got tired of watching the Dems sabotage the Republicans. Good to see a turnabout!!
[quote]Sifu wrote:
It is a shame because GM’s products lately have been getting quite competitive.
America needs to keep it’s domestic auto makers alive because this is a crucial industry that has done much for America over the years.
Right after 9/11 when the economy was about to stall it was the Detroit automakers who came out with zero percent financing to sell cars and keep the economy going.
Detroit saved America. You didn’t see Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Mercedes, BMW making big sacrifices to keep their American factories going, because they are not American companies.
It will be a huge loss for America if GM goes out of business. Those who think it would be a godd thing for GM to die are being very short sighted.[/quote]
One of the fundamental principles of economics is to allow the market to right itself. If a company fails it is natural for other competition to move in and prosper in the fallen’s place. It would be better in the long run to allow the “giants” to die and let the market take its course.
I don’t really understand why they would bail out GM. What makes them so special? I mean, if you haven’t released a product that people want to buy and start to lose money, it’s their fault. GM can’t compete with japanese automakers because they make shitty cars. Let them die.
Part of it comes down to the assembly line workers. You can’t pay someone 31$ an hour to put rivets into a car all day long, it just doesn’t make any sense. There are university graduates making less money than that and contributing more to society. Relying on an assembly line job as a stable career is retarded. So what if there are layoffs? The ones with actual education and skills will find work elsewhere. The factory workers will have to make ends meet some other way.
GM produces nothing of value
[quote]toejam wrote:
government will never let gm fold.[/quote]
of course it won’t
capitalism in times of profit
socialize the losses