[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
They let their steel industry die.
by letting foreign steel into the country? Our mills were decades behind European and asian mills because there was no outside competition. They shouldn’t have been exempt from competing in the world market to begin with.[/quote]
They were decades behind the European and asian mills because we helped the Japanese and Germans rebuild their economy after WWII while our mills were left to rot.
edit- in any event, the steel mills were not bailed out, why should the auto industry be any different?
[quote]vroom wrote:
The home of the automotive era letting it’s auto industry die?
Hard to see it happening…[/quote]
Your collectivist mumbo-jumbo is incorrect.
The auto industry has killed itself. “We” did not “let” it die. “We” just decided that there are better and cheaper cars made by other countries. The US auto industry didn’t stay competitive with the world market and this is what killed it. In part, government is to blame for bailing out the failure in the first place instead of letting it correct itself in the market. An other aspect of this failure is the fact that no one is buying new cars right now.
There is no need for these companies not to be manufacturing automobiles and exporting them to other countries with populations who can afford it. That would mean they need to retool their factories and build cars the rest of the world wants to buy. Maybe when Americans are ready to start buying cars again they will have a decent, inexpensive product.
Also the unions are going to have to take a hike and the American worker is going to have to take a pay-cut.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Maybe when Americans are ready to start buying cars again they will have a decent, inexpensive product.[/quote]
Hogwash. Another example where the free market of fairy tales doesn’t work.
There is a stupendously (maybe “stupidly” would be a better word) large contingent of Americans who will never buy a foreign car, no matter how shitty, rattly and inefficient the American ones are. That fact has allowed US automakers to produce big ugly automobiles, trucks and pick-ups and still do well in the market.
Problem is - and I guess you’ll argue that it’s the market correcting itself - that now that the large contingent of imbeciles who prefer home-made shit to foreign excellence are stuck in a credit crunch, there is no way to export any of the cars elsewhere without being laughed out of town.
If only the jingoistic dumbasses had voted with their wallets for the objectively best automobiles decades before, american automakers would’ve been forced to make better products - something that could compete on the world stage - and everybody would’ve been better off.
We can thank all the True Patriots™ who Buy American™ no matter what for ensconcing their entire auto industry in deep mediocrity. Now they get - if they’re lucky - to see it die a slow agonizing death, taking thousands and thousands of jobs along; or - most likely - to bail it out, once again, with their tax dollars; rewarding, as usual, incompetence and lack of innovation.
[quote]pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Maybe when Americans are ready to start buying cars again they will have a decent, inexpensive product.
Hogwash. Another example where the free market of fairy tales doesn’t work.
There is a stupendously (maybe “stupidly” would be a better word) large contingent of Americans who will never buy a foreign car, no matter how shitty, rattly and inefficient the American ones are. That fact has allowed US automakers to produce big ugly automobiles, trucks and pick-ups and still do well in the market.
Problem is - and I guess you’ll argue that it’s the market correcting itself - that now that the large contingent of imbeciles who prefer home-made shit to foreign excellence are stuck in a credit crunch, there is no way to export any of the cars elsewhere without being laughed out of town.
If only the jingoistic dumbasses had voted with their wallets for the objectively best automobiles decades before, american automakers would’ve been forced to make better products - something that could compete on the world stage - and everybody would’ve been better off.
We can thank all the True Patriots™ who Buy American™ no matter what for ensconcing their entire auto industry in deep mediocrity. Now they get - if they’re lucky - to see it die a slow agonizing death, taking thousands and thousands of jobs along; or - most likely - to bail it out, once again, with their tax dollars; rewarding, as usual, incompetence and lack of innovation.
[/quote]
That is silly. The American car companies problems are due to high labor costs, short sighted management and government regulations favoring certain types of vehicles not normally used in the rest of the world.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Maybe when Americans are ready to start buying cars again they will have a decent, inexpensive product.
Hogwash. Another example where the free market of fairy tales doesn’t work.
There is a stupendously (maybe “stupidly” would be a better word) large contingent of Americans who will never buy a foreign car, no matter how shitty, rattly and inefficient the American ones are. That fact has allowed US automakers to produce big ugly automobiles, trucks and pick-ups and still do well in the market.
Problem is - and I guess you’ll argue that it’s the market correcting itself - that now that the large contingent of imbeciles who prefer home-made shit to foreign excellence are stuck in a credit crunch, there is no way to export any of the cars elsewhere without being laughed out of town.
If only the jingoistic dumbasses had voted with their wallets for the objectively best automobiles decades before, american automakers would’ve been forced to make better products - something that could compete on the world stage - and everybody would’ve been better off.
We can thank all the True Patriots™ who Buy American™ no matter what for ensconcing their entire auto industry in deep mediocrity. Now they get - if they’re lucky - to see it die a slow agonizing death, taking thousands and thousands of jobs along; or - most likely - to bail it out, once again, with their tax dollars; rewarding, as usual, incompetence and lack of innovation.
That is silly. The American car companies problems are due to high labor costs, short sighted management and government regulations favoring certain types of vehicles not normally used in the rest of the world.[/quote]
You mean SUVs that are wider than the average European street in the older part of our cities?
Or a gas mileage that is prohibitive when gas is heavily taxed?
That is silly. The American car companies problems are due to high labor costs, short sighted management and government regulations favoring certain types of vehicles not normally used in the rest of the world.
You mean SUVs that are wider than the average European street in the older part of our cities?
Or a gas mileage that is prohibitive when gas is heavily taxed?[/quote]
That is it exactly. These vehicles were also given preferential treatment by federal regulations and American car companies flocked to them because they had little competition thus good profit margins.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Talk of GM’s death is very premature. obuma’s latest comments regarding this auto maker would lead most rational people to believe that he will put the full force of the US government behind bailing them out.
Think about it, new President…semi socialist…He’s not letting GM crash.
I’ll be buying shares of GM before the end of the year.[/quote]
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Talk of GM’s death is very premature. obuma’s latest comments regarding this auto maker would lead most rational people to believe that he will put the full force of the US government behind bailing them out.
Think about it, new President…semi socialist…He’s not letting GM crash.
I’ll be buying shares of GM before the end of the year.[/quote]
OK, but who is going to be buying the autos that will pull in some profits? Is government going to give everyone $20K to buy a nice new shiny overpriced vehicle?
I think GM needs to make cars that people actually want and quit with the gas guzzlers. They should probably also look into selling there cars without those damn rip off car dealers.
I also think we need some kind of high tax or somthing that would give people ore incentive to buy American cars. I’m sorry and I hate to say this but American cars arent known for their quality. I have a Mazda minivan, and its the shit!!!
[quote]jawara wrote:
I also think we need some kind of high tax or somthing that would give people ore incentive to buy American cars. I’m sorry and I hate to say this but American cars arent known for their quality. I have a Mazda minivan, and its the shit!!![/quote]
Huh? Why would you hurt consumers with more taxes? You will not protect producers here by taxing consumers who want to buy foreign. Besides many foreign autos are built here in the US.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Why would you take money away from those who are succeeding, and give it to a company (or companies) that has proven it can’t? Shouldn’t it be reversed? Shouldn’t we want money to stay in the hand of efficient and successful people and companies?[/quote]
The greater the need, the more help we are morally required to give. Suffering and need are demands made upon all of us as unselfish being.
What is Justice in the face of such pervasive Need?
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
jawara wrote:
I also think we need some kind of high tax or somthing that would give people ore incentive to buy American cars. I’m sorry and I hate to say this but American cars arent known for their quality. I have a Mazda minivan, and its the shit!!!
Huh? Why would you hurt consumers with more taxes? You will not protect producers here by taxing consumers who want to buy foreign. Besides many foreign autos are built here in the US.[/quote]
Exactly. The big three likes to use scare tactics when trying to con the government into giving them more money, by saying millions of American jobs will be lost.
Of course they always fail too mention the millions of jobs that foreign car makers provide for American workers!
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
jawara wrote:
I also think we need some kind of high tax or somthing that would give people ore incentive to buy American cars. I’m sorry and I hate to say this but American cars arent known for their quality. I have a Mazda minivan, and its the shit!!!
Huh? Why would you hurt consumers with more taxes? You will not protect producers here by taxing consumers who want to buy foreign. Besides many foreign autos are built here in the US.[/quote]
I don’t think I did a good job articulating this. I think foreign cars should come with some kind of tax, that way maybe more people would buy American.
Your point about foreign cars made here is a good point too. Maybe we should just let GM fall. It isnt our faualt that they don’t sell.