The Democrat Debate

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump will fade, Trump and Carson have 50% of the Republican vote between the two of them. The rest are oatmeal candidates making up single digit numbers.

This election will be different than ones from the past, because the “fuck the establishment” sentiment is the key theme among both parties. Trump and Bernie are the fuck you vote, and they are doing well because the disgust for the same recycled politicians we have come to see. You can thank Mr. Hopey-Changey for this effect.

Before the screams for moderates begins, ask Romney how well that went.[/quote]

In my opinion Romney would’ve beat any of the Democratic candidates currently running for office.

Say what you will about Obama, he can campaign, he speaks well, and he got black voters to turn out. None of those things leads to good policy decisions, but they can get you elected.
[/quote]

Obama was also running for re-election making Romney’s task that much more difficult. I also think Kasich is much more likable than Romney ever was and he should carry Ohio relatively easily.

142

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Say what you will about Obama, he can campaign, he speaks well, and he got black voters to turn out. None of those things leads to good policy decisions, but they can get you elected.
[/quote]

What’s the number 1 goal of every politician? Get re-elected…

that’s why Trump is doing well, he does not give the same old passionate but never actually say anything answers. He un-passionately gets right to the point and that resonates with people.

143

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump will fade, Trump and Carson have 50% of the Republican vote between the two of them. The rest are oatmeal candidates making up single digit numbers.

This election will be different than ones from the past, because the “fuck the establishment” sentiment is the key theme among both parties. Trump and Bernie are the fuck you vote, and they are doing well because the disgust for the same recycled politicians we have come to see. You can thank Mr. Hopey-Changey for this effect.

Before the screams for moderates begins, ask Romney how well that went.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with you. But, here is the fundamental problem that republicans face this year. At the end of the day Bernie Sanders is NOT going to be the democratic nominee, that distinction will go to Hillary Clinton if she is not indicted. And she is the epitome of an insider. Therefore, if we send in one of the amateurs, Trump or Carson, to face her she may very well be our next President. Now I know how nauseating such a thought can be but she is a professional politician surrounded by the best advisors and even with all her faults she is well seasoned, and knows how to debate at the Presidential level and run a top flight campaign. Let’s not forget that she has been through two Presidential campaigns with her husband. And also ran in 2008.

If we want Hillary to lose and lose big we need Marco Rubio at the top of the ticket. He will eat Hillary’s lunch in a debate and will also make her look old and out of touch…a 90’s candidate vs. today’s leader. Rubio will also attract female voters because of his million dollar smile and great family. And he will bring another important group to the republicans and that is Spanish speaking voters. He may even dig into the democrats youth base. He is a winner!

John Kasich as VP will round out the winning ticket. The very popular Governor of Ohio will also secure one of the two states that we need to win. The other state is Florida where Rubio is from.

Anyone thinking that Trump, if he is the nominee, is a shoe in is smoking something worse than what Pittbull smokes.

What we don’t want to do is put someone up who is inexperienced. This is a game of mistakes and the one who makes the least is usually the one who wins.

Yes Trump could win, but Rubio/Kasich will win and win BIG!

144

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:

Say what you will about Obama, he can campaign, he speaks well, and he got black voters to turn out. None of those things leads to good policy decisions, but they can get you elected.
[/quote]

What’s the number 1 goal of every politician? Get re-elected…

that’s why Trump is doing well, he does not give the same old passionate but never actually say anything answers. He un-passionately gets right to the point and that resonates with people.
[/quote]

Do you know how easily a good democratic team of strategists could turn Trump on his head and make him look like a buffoon?

He is a gigantic risk. And why risk anything when you have a ready made win with other candidates.

I really, really, really want Trump and Carson to go home…Just walk away please…

145

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump will fade, Trump and Carson have 50% of the Republican vote between the two of them. The rest are oatmeal candidates making up single digit numbers.

This election will be different than ones from the past, because the “fuck the establishment” sentiment is the key theme among both parties. Trump and Bernie are the fuck you vote, and they are doing well because the disgust for the same recycled politicians we have come to see. You can thank Mr. Hopey-Changey for this effect.

Before the screams for moderates begins, ask Romney how well that went.[/quote]

How do you think he would do if he was running this year instead of 4 years ago? In retrospect he seems better than the current candidates but would he stand out or just be 1 of the 15?

146

[quote]pat wrote:
I am living proof that those policies are exactly that. My health insurance has gone up 50% in the last 2 years because of Obamacare. I know this because the insurance company told us the rate hike was directly the result of Obamacare in the letter discussing the rate hike. Otherwise I would have been just guessing. My taxes went up 20% in the last year. Literally, 20%. Not an exaggeration.
Funny I don’t feel rich, but according to the government, I am Gordon Gekko. [/quote]

It must depend on where a person lives…the insurance premiums at my company have gone down for the last three years without changes to the deductible/coverage. What was the reason for the tax increase…there were no changes to the rates.

147

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump will fade, Trump and Carson have 50% of the Republican vote between the two of them. The rest are oatmeal candidates making up single digit numbers.

This election will be different than ones from the past, because the “fuck the establishment” sentiment is the key theme among both parties. Trump and Bernie are the fuck you vote, and they are doing well because the disgust for the same recycled politicians we have come to see. You can thank Mr. Hopey-Changey for this effect.

Before the screams for moderates begins, ask Romney how well that went.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with you. But, here is the fundamental problem that republicans face this year. At the end of the day Bernie Sanders is NOT going to be the democratic nominee, that distinction will go to Hillary Clinton if she is not indicted. And she is the epitome of an insider. Therefore, if we send in one of the amateurs, Trump or Carson, to face her she may very well be our next President. Now I know how nauseating such a thought can be but she is a professional politician surrounded by the best advisors and even with all her faults she is well seasoned, and knows how to debate at the Presidential level and run a top flight campaign. Let’s not forget that she has been through two Presidential campaigns with her husband. And also ran in 2008.

If we want Hillary to lose and lose big we need Marco Rubio at the top of the ticket. He will eat Hillary’s lunch in a debate and will also make her look old and out of touch…a 90’s candidate vs. today’s leader. Rubio will also attract female voters because of his million dollar smile and great family. And he will bring another important group to the republicans and that is Spanish speaking voters. He may even dig into the democrats youth base. He is a winner!

John Kasich as VP will round out the winning ticket. The very popular Governor of Ohio will also secure one of the two states that we need to win. The other state is Florida where Rubio is from.

Anyone thinking that Trump, if he is the nominee, is a shoe in is smoking something worse than what Pittbull smokes.

What we don’t want to do is put someone up who is inexperienced. This is a game of mistakes and the one who makes the least is usually the one who wins.

Yes Trump could win, but Rubio/Kasich will win and win BIG![/quote]

I would be pretty excited about a Rubio/Kasich ticket. Rubio should be able to appease the staunch conservatives and attract the other voting blocs you mentioned. Kasich, even though a RINO, would be the “seasoned policy wonk.”

148

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump will fade, Trump and Carson have 50% of the Republican vote between the two of them. The rest are oatmeal candidates making up single digit numbers.

This election will be different than ones from the past, because the “fuck the establishment” sentiment is the key theme among both parties. Trump and Bernie are the fuck you vote, and they are doing well because the disgust for the same recycled politicians we have come to see. You can thank Mr. Hopey-Changey for this effect.

Before the screams for moderates begins, ask Romney how well that went.[/quote]

The lack of evidence is why I said “I think”

149

[quote]Dr J wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump will fade, Trump and Carson have 50% of the Republican vote between the two of them. The rest are oatmeal candidates making up single digit numbers.

This election will be different than ones from the past, because the “fuck the establishment” sentiment is the key theme among both parties. Trump and Bernie are the fuck you vote, and they are doing well because the disgust for the same recycled politicians we have come to see. You can thank Mr. Hopey-Changey for this effect.

Before the screams for moderates begins, ask Romney how well that went.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with you. But, here is the fundamental problem that republicans face this year. At the end of the day Bernie Sanders is NOT going to be the democratic nominee, that distinction will go to Hillary Clinton if she is not indicted. And she is the epitome of an insider. Therefore, if we send in one of the amateurs, Trump or Carson, to face her she may very well be our next President. Now I know how nauseating such a thought can be but she is a professional politician surrounded by the best advisors and even with all her faults she is well seasoned, and knows how to debate at the Presidential level and run a top flight campaign. Let’s not forget that she has been through two Presidential campaigns with her husband. And also ran in 2008.

If we want Hillary to lose and lose big we need Marco Rubio at the top of the ticket. He will eat Hillary’s lunch in a debate and will also make her look old and out of touch…a 90’s candidate vs. today’s leader. Rubio will also attract female voters because of his million dollar smile and great family. And he will bring another important group to the republicans and that is Spanish speaking voters. He may even dig into the democrats youth base. He is a winner!

John Kasich as VP will round out the winning ticket. The very popular Governor of Ohio will also secure one of the two states that we need to win. The other state is Florida where Rubio is from.

Anyone thinking that Trump, if he is the nominee, is a shoe in is smoking something worse than what Pittbull smokes.

What we don’t want to do is put someone up who is inexperienced. This is a game of mistakes and the one who makes the least is usually the one who wins.

Yes Trump could win, but Rubio/Kasich will win and win BIG![/quote]

I would be pretty excited about a Rubio/Kasich ticket. Rubio should be able to appease the staunch conservatives and attract the other voting blocs you mentioned. Kasich, even though a RINO, would be the “seasoned policy wonk.”[/quote]

I agree that Kasich is a solid VP choice. He also takes care of Ohio. I favor a Cruz/Kasich, Cruz/Fiornia or Cruz/Carson, in that order.

I hope Jeb will drop out and endorse Cruz so we can be done with this.

150

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Dr J wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
There is no evidence that Trump will fade, Trump and Carson have 50% of the Republican vote between the two of them. The rest are oatmeal candidates making up single digit numbers.

This election will be different than ones from the past, because the “fuck the establishment” sentiment is the key theme among both parties. Trump and Bernie are the fuck you vote, and they are doing well because the disgust for the same recycled politicians we have come to see. You can thank Mr. Hopey-Changey for this effect.

Before the screams for moderates begins, ask Romney how well that went.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with you. But, here is the fundamental problem that republicans face this year. At the end of the day Bernie Sanders is NOT going to be the democratic nominee, that distinction will go to Hillary Clinton if she is not indicted. And she is the epitome of an insider. Therefore, if we send in one of the amateurs, Trump or Carson, to face her she may very well be our next President. Now I know how nauseating such a thought can be but she is a professional politician surrounded by the best advisors and even with all her faults she is well seasoned, and knows how to debate at the Presidential level and run a top flight campaign. Let’s not forget that she has been through two Presidential campaigns with her husband. And also ran in 2008.

If we want Hillary to lose and lose big we need Marco Rubio at the top of the ticket. He will eat Hillary’s lunch in a debate and will also make her look old and out of touch…a 90’s candidate vs. today’s leader. Rubio will also attract female voters because of his million dollar smile and great family. And he will bring another important group to the republicans and that is Spanish speaking voters. He may even dig into the democrats youth base. He is a winner!

John Kasich as VP will round out the winning ticket. The very popular Governor of Ohio will also secure one of the two states that we need to win. The other state is Florida where Rubio is from.

Anyone thinking that Trump, if he is the nominee, is a shoe in is smoking something worse than what Pittbull smokes.

What we don’t want to do is put someone up who is inexperienced. This is a game of mistakes and the one who makes the least is usually the one who wins.

Yes Trump could win, but Rubio/Kasich will win and win BIG![/quote]

I would be pretty excited about a Rubio/Kasich ticket. Rubio should be able to appease the staunch conservatives and attract the other voting blocs you mentioned. Kasich, even though a RINO, would be the “seasoned policy wonk.”[/quote]

I agree that Kasich is a solid VP choice. He also takes care of Ohio. I favor a Cruz/Kasich, Cruz/Fiornia or Cruz/Carson, in that order.

I hope Jeb will drop out and endorse Cruz so we can be done with this.
[/quote]

A couple of problems with Cruz, I love his policies but his appearance does not help him. He just doesn’t have the look. He’s also from Texas a state the republicans will win easy regardless of who is on the ticket. Florida on the other hand is always a toss up sate. Romney lost it by about 1% last time around. Rubio would deliver Florida…he’s also the guy with the million dollar smile who can attract the female vote.

I think there are plenty of good combinations as you suggest that could win. But Rubio/Kasich seems like the best of the bunch.

One more thing I’m not convinced that Carson could help the ticket. He won’t attract the black vote as he has stepped outside the norm. He doesn’t represent any particular state. And we all know he’s an exceptionally boring speaker. Quite honestly I have no idea why anyone would support him other than his incredibly staunch conservative views.

Fiorina could be a help at the bottom of the ticket attacking Hillary day and night without ever a charge of sexism being leveled at her.

As I have said many times Trump just scares me. It seems to be that they will be ready for him. And I’m not convinced that he doesn’t have any skeletons in his closet. Not to mention that when he opens his mouth anything can come out. He’s just not polished enough to take on Hillary…

151

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
I agree that Kasich is a solid VP choice. He also takes care of Ohio.
[/quote]

Unless the dems put a black guy on the ticket, Ohio will be just fine. Cuyahoga county is not getting out of bed to vote for a haggard wealthy white women…

152

[quote]ZEB wrote:
As I have said many times Trump just scares me. It seems to be that they will be ready for him. And I’m not convinced that he doesn’t have any skeletons in his closet. Not to mention that when he opens his mouth anything can come out. He’s just not polished enough to take on Hillary…
[/quote]

Hillary is a transparent career politician with more skeletons than anyone, however she has the media on her side (obviously) and they will go to hell and back muckraking whoever the gop select. Trump would only make things worse for the gop, and easier for the liberals. Democracy at it’s finest…

My issue with Trump is not what he will say during the campaign, but what he would say as commander and chief. You cant shoot from the hip when lives are on the line.

153

[quote]Aggv wrote:

My issue with Trump is not what he will say during the campaign, but what he would say as commander and chief. You cant shoot from the hip when lives are on the line. [/quote]

Funny, that’s the part that doesn’t bother me. I look at it like this, over the past 7 years we’ve had without question the worst President in the history of the US and we are still here. I don’t think Trump could possible do any worse, no one could including Hillary. Nor, do I think Trump would shoot from the hip when it mattered, he’s not an idiot.

154

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

My issue with Trump is not what he will say during the campaign, but what he would say as commander and chief. You cant shoot from the hip when lives are on the line. [/quote]

Funny, that’s the part that doesn’t bother me. I look at it like this, over the past 7 years we’ve had without question the worst President in the history of the US and we are still here. I don’t think Trump could possible do any worse, no one could including Hillary. Nor, do I think Trump would shoot from the hip when it mattered, he’s not an idiot.[/quote]

Few people thought an actor could be elected, and Reagan still seems to be the ultimate boner material for Conservatives. What got him elected was strength and confidence, what we are seeing in Trump right now. Maybe the best politician is a non-politician. With a Congress and Judiciary, it’s not like Trump can fuck things without recourse.

155

Feel the Bern:)

156

This thread reminded me of this:

157

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

My issue with Trump is not what he will say during the campaign, but what he would say as commander and chief. You cant shoot from the hip when lives are on the line. [/quote]

Funny, that’s the part that doesn’t bother me. I look at it like this, over the past 7 years we’ve had without question the worst President in the history of the US and we are still here. I don’t think Trump could possible do any worse, no one could including Hillary. Nor, do I think Trump would shoot from the hip when it mattered, he’s not an idiot.[/quote]

Few people thought an actor could be elected, and Reagan still seems to be the ultimate boner material for Conservatives. What got him elected was strength and confidence, what we are seeing in Trump right now. Maybe the best politician is a non-politician. With a Congress and Judiciary, it’s not like Trump can fuck things without recourse.
[/quote]

Lets not forget that Ronald Reagan served as a two time Governor of California before he ever ran for President. He was, by then an experienced debater and generally speaking a seasoned politician. Trump is no where near Reagans level of experience.

I really would have loved to see Trump run for Governor of NY before he ran for President. But…

158

florelius,

If that video by the idiot Bill Marr is supposed to defend Socialist Bernie Sanders you can forget it florelius. He’s a freaking socialist. Not very diffi cult to take something from someone who earned it and give it to someone who didn’t earn it. You don’t create wealth that way you only discourage people from creating wealth because you take most of it away. Bernie’s crowds are full of starry eyed milenials who really don’t quite know their ass from their elbow yet. And there are also some hold over hippies.

And Bernie is not going to get elected to the Presidency. We did fall pretty far by electing Obama twice, but that’s America we fell for the charisma. I thank God every day that Bernie has none of that and after next year we won’t have to hear of him or see him again.

Socialism HA!

159
160

[quote]ZEB wrote:
florelius,

If that video by the idiot Bill Marr is supposed to defend Socialist Bernie Sanders you can forget it florelius. He’s a freaking socialist. Not very diffi cult to take something from someone who earned it and give it to someone who didn’t earn it. You don’t create wealth that way you only discourage people from creating wealth because you take most of it away. Bernie’s crowds are full of starry eyed milenials who really don’t quite know their ass from their elbow yet. And there are also some hold over hippies.

And Bernie is not going to get elected to the Presidency. We did fall pretty far by electing Obama twice, but that’s America we fell for the charisma. I thank God every day that Bernie has none of that and after next year we won’t have to hear of him or see him again.

Socialism HA!
[/quote]

The point of posting that video was 1: It’s funny and 2: It showcases the overreaction by the right regarding Sanders. And 3: It’s funny!

Regarding if Sanders is a socialist or not: I wish he was, but the platform he is running on is more of a post WWII social-democratic platform. In essence his platform is calling for a expansion of the welfare state in conjuction With a more progressive tax system. You might not like it, but it is a rather moderate platform for a supposedly socialist candidate. If Bernie was as radical as some think he is, he would be proposing a lot of different set of policys than he is doing now. I think it is weird he is calling himself a socialist, when his positions fits more inline With a center-leftis( like social-democrats, left-liberals etc ). I think the Young Bernie Sanders was an actuall socialist, but that his positions drifted more to the center after decades in Office. And I think he is holding on to the label out of habit and maybe to seem more different than the run of the mill progressives and liberals.