Do you mean from having to do heavy squats and deadlifts in a week? I’ve had great success (squat,deadlift) with 5/3/1, but I know it’s not for everyone.[/quote]
That could have been it. I think going all out on that last set on my main lifts beat me up pretty good. i mean on deads I couldn’t even budge 530 a significant decrease in strength. I imagine that is due to CNS fatigue. I can always tell when I am experiencing that, lifting is no longer fun, lots of anxiety and irritability set in and I dread all day going to the gym. I had this for allot of the program but kept going with it.
In its defense I found 5/3/1 did help improve my conditioning though, like i feel less winded. Also, I have read allot of people’s successes with it which is why I bought the book, so it must work for some.
My best successes have been when my lifts have been well below failure.
I started a thread on my experience with 5/3/1 titled something like 531 mess power loss. check it out if you want.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
cool setups…what kinda gains did you get from this, and if you don’t mind me asking whats your deadlift at?[/quote]
The first one I got my deadlift up to 525 beltless, I had previous best of 545 with the belt. The second one gave me a good base for lifting heavy again, I didn't end up maxing on this one but I developed allot of explosion. The third one i got my deadlift to 550 beltess. The third one worked great you always feel like you have more left in the tank. Currently, my best pull in competition raw w/ belt has been 600 @ 174. To get to 600 I alternated speed weeks with regular heavier pulling weeks. I also had to hone my technique to stay as upright as possible. I recently did Wendler's 5/3/1 and my dead went down, I think overtraining was the culprit. [/quote]
these are pulling sumo every week? 70%, that’s some really light working weights. i feel pretty comfortable pulling lots of reps with ~85% weights, based on my 1RM. makes me think my 1RM is much lower than it should be.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
cool setups…what kinda gains did you get from this, and if you don’t mind me asking whats your deadlift at?[/quote]
The first one I got my deadlift up to 525 beltless, I had previous best of 545 with the belt. The second one gave me a good base for lifting heavy again, I didn't end up maxing on this one but I developed allot of explosion. The third one i got my deadlift to 550 beltess. The third one worked great you always feel like you have more left in the tank. Currently, my best pull in competition raw w/ belt has been 600 @ 174. To get to 600 I alternated speed weeks with regular heavier pulling weeks. I also had to hone my technique to stay as upright as possible. I recently did Wendler's 5/3/1 and my dead went down, I think overtraining was the culprit. [/quote]
these are pulling sumo every week? 70%, that’s some really light working weights. i feel pretty comfortable pulling lots of reps with ~85% weights, based on my 1RM. makes me think my 1RM is much lower than it should be.
[/quote]
Yeah these are all pulling sumo. Maybe, your muscles are more trained for endurance. If you perform primarily sets under 5 reps and work in this speed stuff I think you will notice your reps go down and your lifts go up.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
cool setups…what kinda gains did you get from this, and if you don’t mind me asking whats your deadlift at?[/quote]
The first one I got my deadlift up to 525 beltless, I had previous best of 545 with the belt. The second one gave me a good base for lifting heavy again, I didn't end up maxing on this one but I developed allot of explosion. The third one i got my deadlift to 550 beltess. The third one worked great you always feel like you have more left in the tank. Currently, my best pull in competition raw w/ belt has been 600 @ 174. To get to 600 I alternated speed weeks with regular heavier pulling weeks. I also had to hone my technique to stay as upright as possible. I recently did Wendler's 5/3/1 and my dead went down, I think overtraining was the culprit. [/quote]
these are pulling sumo every week? 70%, that’s some really light working weights. i feel pretty comfortable pulling lots of reps with ~85% weights, based on my 1RM. makes me think my 1RM is much lower than it should be.
[/quote]
Yeah these are all pulling sumo. Maybe, your muscles are more trained for endurance. If you perform primarily sets under 5 reps and work in this speed stuff I think you will notice your reps go down and your lifts go up. [/quote]
hmmm i see a way to work this concept in to my own routine. thanks for the input, it’s given me some ideas.
edit: how tall are you? i’m 5’9", 177lb right now. also 26yo and in MA. where do you train?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Ras you seem to be ridiculously strong and athletic, there’s nothing you want to stick to for a few years and possibly complete professionally in?[/quote]
Your too nice lol. Mmmm I’m un-sure…I’ve always been athletic and strong but in HS I never played any sports. No football, nothing. I knew one thing always though…I was good at fighting…even since a kid…against bigger guys, taller guys. Doesn’t matter.
That’s the one thing that’s always been a constant in my life. I did muay thai for 2 years and really picked up on that quick. I’ve been out of muay thai for a few months now. I am so busy with work, now school so I actually have more time. Plus the construction business is pretty tiring physically and mentally.
BUT even though I don’t have much support (everyone tell me to work and that’s it) I do realize I am only 20 years old…have experience in fighting…
I have been working solely boxing now and things have never felt more right.
The coach asked me to join the competitive team and see what I think.
Problem is I think I’m a pretty stocky guy…just under 5’9, reach is 6ft. not sure aobut weight right now but I’ve been 216 with abs.
I’m built like a Mike Tyson pretty much
Problem is how far could I really go in pro boxing? I do have the power in my hands (naturally)
But to fight in a HW division?
Or after a bit of this I could switch and try MMA.
I’m just un-sure of what to do because of my height and if that is a limiting factor?
But I think that’s a bunch of too many questions…rather been a has been then a never been.
I guess I rather do it and try it instead of looking back when I’m 40 and saying damn I shoulda tried that out.
But as far as things go it’s either fighting (which I love) or just stick to the weights and do some form of PL or strongman. (which I really like, but always somethin missin)
Oreillbc - ohh so your pulling sumo in those cycles?
My sumo is much stronger than my conv…I think I’m just not built well for conv. and I do not go really wide for sumo I do a modified sumo…it’s a tad wider than my squat stance…think ed coan sumo stance.
Do you ever train your conv. oreillbc? and go through the same cycles?
I like how you train your deadlift a lot actually it’s very simple and to the point.
Something I have no clue how to do when trainign the deadlift lol
I know cookie cutter programs arent what we should go after but I am definately considering trying out your method and see how it works for me because I’ve always burnt myself out bad by going too heavy too often, and actually lose strength. never tried anything like the sample cycles you showed going lighter/working up.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Oreillbc - ohh so your pulling sumo in those cycles?
My sumo is much stronger than my conv…I think I’m just not built well for conv. and I do not go really wide for sumo I do a modified sumo…it’s a tad wider than my squat stance…think ed coan sumo stance.
Do you ever train your conv. oreillbc? and go through the same cycles?
I like how you train your deadlift a lot actually it’s very simple and to the point.
Something I have no clue how to do when trainign the deadlift lol
I know cookie cutter programs arent what we should go after but I am definately considering trying out your method and see how it works for me because I’ve always burnt myself out bad by going too heavy too often, and actually lose strength. never tried anything like the sample cycles you showed going lighter/working up.
Thanks![/quote]
hey my sumo is also way better than conventional. been doing conventional deficit pulls every third week and it feels good. not much more to add than that.
I’m trying to make the transitions from trap bar to regular DLs. today was the first time i’ve really done them. I had a lot of trouble getting the bar all the way up. I could get it up a few inches past my knees then it felt like the bar was sticking to my legs. It seemed like the strength was there, I just couldn’t get it to move once it was against my quads, like the problem was friction. any advice?
anyone do a million more pounds on the trap bar deadlift…first time I tried it I pulled the easiest 500 for 5 on the trap bar ever…i had way more in me. cannot do that same with conv. deads or sumo.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
Oreillbc - ohh so your pulling sumo in those cycles?
My sumo is much stronger than my conv…I think I’m just not built well for conv. and I do not go really wide for sumo I do a modified sumo…it’s a tad wider than my squat stance…think ed coan sumo stance.
Do you ever train your conv. oreillbc? and go through the same cycles?
I like how you train your deadlift a lot actually it’s very simple and to the point.
Something I have no clue how to do when trainign the deadlift lol
I know cookie cutter programs arent what we should go after but I am definately considering trying out your method and see how it works for me because I’ve always burnt myself out bad by going too heavy too often, and actually lose strength. never tried anything like the sample cycles you showed going lighter/working up.
Thanks![/quote]
Hey rasturai I too suck at conventional stance. I believe it is because my thighs are weak, I tend to favor wide stance in my squats too, strong hips and back, weak thighs perhaps. My front squat isn’t so good. Anyhow, I have not tried these cycles for conventional style, definately a thought though, I might do that at some point currently I am trying to use autoregulation to control how many sets I do and stuff, and I’m going to be conventional deadliftin every other week.
One other thing, my sumo deadlift looks a bit like conventional style. I tend to snap the bar with my arms, round the shoulders and am not completely vertical. I posted my videos on my profile. I wonder if it would be too hip intensive to use the cycles with the traditional sumo style, considering I squat wide stance once a week as well.
That’s the weird thing…I never trained my front squat but put up 315…my goal is to get 405 front squat actually and start to add it in my training.
How far off is your conventional to your sumo?
I have had sore hips before from too much heavy squatting and muay thai kicks.
My squat stance isn’t too wide, just a bit wider than shoulder…and my stance for sumo is a bit wider than that.
I guess I rather accept being a shitty conv. puller, be good at sumo and that’s all there is to it lol.
I will still train my lower back hard and incorporate conv. pulls but if I feel safer and better doing sumo it’s probably a better choice, do you agree?
[quote]rasturai wrote:
That’s the weird thing…I never trained my front squat but put up 315…my goal is to get 405 front squat actually and start to add it in my training.
How far off is your conventional to your sumo?
I have had sore hips before from too much heavy squatting and muay thai kicks.
My squat stance isn’t too wide, just a bit wider than shoulder…and my stance for sumo is a bit wider than that.
I guess I rather accept being a shitty conv. puller, be good at sumo and that’s all there is to it lol.
I will still train my lower back hard and incorporate conv. pulls but if I feel safer and better doing sumo it’s probably a better choice, do you agree?[/quote]
Best Sumo: 600
Best conventional: 465
I dunno what a better choice is, I do feel less lower back strain sumo regardless if my back is straight or rounded. In terms of sports transference, you do MMA, right? I dunno how well the powerlifts even transfer to actual real world strength. Example, I'll play this game with my family where we push each other off a raft. My cousins some of which are younger 13, -16, lighter and weight training wise weaker can push me off fairly easily. Maybe, I have poor technique for throwing people off the thing, but I would have imagined the fact I can bench, squat and deadlift at least a few hundred pounds more than these kids would mean I would dominate.
I’ve thought allot about what would be a good triad of exercises, to test for strength increases. I think if you have a strong close stance ATG front squat, that would mean strong quads and abs, strong sumo deadlift would mean strong posterior chain, and close grip bench would mean strong tris and shoulders.
well I’m not too into the MMA…I mean perhaps down the road but right now it’s boxing and muay thai. Leaning more towards boxing.
The powerlifts CAN transfer to real world strength for sure.
Something simple that got my kicks to skyrocket was well my kicks have always been strong…with the added leg strength (hips, abs etc.)and the weight of my legs I mean they were strong. By perfecting the technique the power entered a new world. When I have good movement efficiency and add in some plyo’s/explosive work and lower squat volume…tehre is less fatigue in my legs…my power for kicks will put people out.
It’s a bit different for punching.
I also think it’s kinda a natural thing…I’ve always had that “natural” strength for fighting.
Even with wrestling I don’t have much skills at all but my strength has always helped me in that…and well I could say my mind as well, thinking what to do.
For that raft thing I would imagine it’d be all about timing and a few other things but I don’t think your cousins are thinking anything about that haha.
It could be just because they are kids though and your mind is almost letting it happen even if you don’t want it to.
I always push around with my dad and I mean no matter what I can’t fully get him he wins…I mean come on I’m heavier than him, much stronger…and he wins all the time. Well one time I got a bit heated lol and I easily overpowered…so I think it has to do with your inhibtions and wanting to be careful.
Lastly for your cousins the only advice I can give you if you arent going to join a wrestling class haha
don’t always push push push…use a pull,push, pull system and that will easily get them off balance and using jerks instead of push’s.
If that don’t work! Push the sides of their head, or pull head down then push to the side (while pushing head to side)…the body always follows the head!
lol