Because raw female sexuality in women’s most fertile years is dictated by hormones, not pragmatism. Plain and simple.
Likely because such men were not seen as attractive because of who the aforesaid hormones drive women towards and more rational reasoning comes into play. And a thirty-year old man is capable of having more desirable possessions than a teenaged male: money, status, psychological acuity, and influence.
Nice guys have slender necks and forearms.
They don’t seem dangerous or tough so they have low status among dudes, making them seem whack to chicks.
To intimidate the dudes you should do reverse curls and neck harness stuff.
Then when you look like trouble, dudes will fall in line and the chicks will respond.
Not only specifically to you, but…how do you “female hormone blah blah blah” folks account for all of the happy, successful early pairings?
Even the unsuccessful pairings show evidence contrary to your frame.
Taken as a whole, I believe there is more evidence against your frame than for.
I read your posts and know you would be someone with whom I would be friendly IRL - we would enjoy sharing patients in a work setting, etc. But your views in this matter strike me as emotional thinking rather than rational.
I agree that hormones play a significant role in young people’s behavior. I do not agree that this is true to the degree that women lose rationality, if they are rational types.
It’s like the many men who choose or have chosen fools are generalizing “foolishness” to all women. It simply doesn’t make sense. The crazy, men-hating feminists did and do the same thing. I regularly encounter women who see men as pigs. Well, stay away from pigs if you don’t like them that way, then! Or figure out why these are your only option, even better. You can substitute “men are children” for pigs, and it would be the same thing. Why have you gotten yourself a man-child if that’s not what you want? What behaviors of yours drew them and kept them?
I see here men who’ve chosen or who preference women-child types and feel angry at the refusal of the greater society to bend the rules to make things easier for you. You want women infantilized by law. I don’t want to be infantilized. Neither do I want to dominate men or have a me-first relationship or society.
Thanks for the post. I will try to elaborate later.
I accept your statement that you are not directing things to me specifically (“not to you”) because I don’t want to infantalize anyone. I don’t want women uneducated or in positions in which they cannot cultivate their talents and contributions to society, earn money, and so on. Is there even a significant amount of men in the West who want this?
It’s what I believe the views some men hold will lead to inevitably if action is taken. If women can’t be trusted to manage their own best interest due to evolutionarily-programmed deficits, well…what then? Mustn’t someone stronger and clearer take over?
In general I’m a big believer in “get in where you fit in”.
This always held true for me with women and observationally seems to be the case in general (and before “well actshualllly”, I realize there can be exceptions).
The “nice guy” problem in my observation is they try to “white knight” the hot chicks who see them as goofy friends and it doesn’t work because they’re simply not the right material for what the women are chasing. What they need to do is assess who they really are and aim for realistic matches. It’s more of an attraction mismatch than a nice guy problem.
Same for women. The guy who can get laid easily and is stable to wealthy, self-assured and on and on doesn’t need you. If you’re trying to mate status, which is very common (and unattractive), be aware of what you’re bringing to the table. If you’re a dime a dozen in his world swallow your pride, realize it and save yourself some heartache. Princesses exist in history books and Disney movies. And the real Princesses used to bring commensurate wealth and prestige.
Doesn’t this seem to be irrational behavior then?
Logically, they would stop chasing guys who are “pigs” after the first two or so, right?
Right, so “good guys”. 30% of men under 30 are sexless; i wager they’re “good guys” too.
Ever hear the phrase “where have all the good men gone?” Well, they’re right there, but you aren’t attracted to them.
I’m not trying to be divisive, but this just seems silly to me. Plenty of pencil neck non-dangerous guys date and marry. I don’t see the correlation.
I don’t think being a docile pushover automatically = “good guy”. It can, sure, but many of these types are also some of the worst people you’d ever encounter.
I’m curious why you would wager that they’re “good guys”?
Sure, but it’s usually stated by a woman that is either a ho or is also very docile and/or doesn’t put themselves in a position to be approached.
You think the majority of nerdy looking guys are getting laid in their teens and early 20s?
Or do they not “find love” until they’re like 30 and wealthy?
The thing is that many women will list off characteristics that they want in a potential mate. However, they often leave off the ones that could make them seem shallow. They want a guy that is kind, caring, loyal, and that they are attracted to (the part left off). This can be confusing to men (particularly) younger men. They meet the criteria the woman listed, why is she not interested? Well, the attraction part is a big deal to both men and women. I think some men misunderstand and think the women are lying about wanting a kind, caring and loyal man, because there are examples of women saying these things, then going after a “bad boy”. Well, they weren’t lying, it is just the “is attracted to” part is often the most important. They would like the “bad boy” even more if he had those traits (as long as those traits don’t remove her ability to feel the emotions related to romantic love, which can happen).
I have no idea if the majority of nerdy guys, however you’d define the term nerdy, are getting laid in their teens and early 20s. I’d be somewhat surprised if the majority of guys get laid in their teens and probably early 20s. Maybe they do with current culture, but I don’t think that was the case when I was a teen.
My post was specifically about the idea that women only date/marry masculine men because they’re biologically programmed to. To many examples to the contrary, imo, to make that statement.
If we’re talking purely casual sex some maybe most women are going to be attracted to masculinity and/or status. That’s a tale as old as time, sure. However, even some of the pencil necked goth kids in HS were gettin it in…
I’d be curious to know what percentage of men in their teens/early 20s were having sex in the past compared to today. I’d be surprised if the percentage is much lower now than in the 50s for example.
I think that there are a lot of factors to consider. For example, perhaps it seems like men are only getting married in their late 20s / early 30s now because, in general, people aren’t getting married as young as they used to. I don’t know if that’s the case, but it’s something to consider.
In some cases, it probably is because some women use their 20s to run through every guy they want and then settle in their 30s. It happens, you’ll get no argument from me that it doesn’t.
I think we also need to consider that in prior generations women were ready to settle and start a family because there wasn’t an alternative. Now, many women go to college, even grad school, and start careers. These things push the timing of marriage further down the road. So it’s not necessarily that these women are settling for pencil necked programmers in their 30s, but their life choices have pushed their dating/marriage/mating further into their 20s and 30s.
Like with most things, I think social media has misconstrued what is actually happening in reality. I absolutely could be wrong, but I really don’t think most women feel inclined to fuck every dude with a six pack.
Are less women virgins at marriage, sure. Do women have higher body counts than previous generations, probably. But I think it’s a couple more not the 35 we see during interviews on podcasts.
Exactly. All of it!
IMO, the typical starting place of relationships between men and women is:
Men seek a woman that they are attracted to in most all aspects, and doesn’t want her to ever change. This is an unrealistic expectation. People change as they age.
Women seek a man that strongly appeals to them, but none are exactly as she wishes. She looks at him as the perfect man except for a couple things. She goes into the relationship planning to change her man into her perfect man. No man wants to be changed, but he will accept change if it occurs organically, not change that seems forced or coerced upon him.
Both enter into the relationship with conflict waiting ahead of them.
This is a bit dated (2014), but uses changes in time between first sexual experience and first child to tell the story.
Age at First Sex has Changed Little, But Childbearing Is Happening Later
The typical age at which teens first have sex has remained relatively stable over the past several decades, increasing slightly to 17.8 for women and 18.1 for men in the most recent cohort for whom data are available. For women coming of age in the mid-2000s, the median age at first sex was about the same as that of women 35 years earlier, according to “Trends in Ages at Key Reproductive Transitions in the United States, 1951–2010,” by Lawrence B. Finer and Jesse M. Philbin. However, the typical time between first sex and first birth has increased from three years for women born in 1940 to almost 10 years for women born in 1982.
Do women prefer hookups with good boys or bad boys?
Do women prefer to marry good boys or bad boys?
You mean, do women who prefer hookups prefer men who prefer hookups?
And do women who are monogamy-minded prefer the same?
Whomever is available that they are attracted enough to hook up with.
I doubt they make a preference. People marry for specific reasons that are often weeded out during the dating phase of life, which inherently eliminates “bad guys”. And girls.
I’m happily married and faithful. In my twenties I slept around, drank heavily, used recreational drugs (primarily marijuana and cocaine), rode motorcycles (Harleys specifically) and was probably considered a “bad guy” on the surface.
I wouldn’t over analyze too much.
So you’re saying that you slept around a lot when you were a “bad guy” and got married when you were a “good guy”?
Huh