I think that is the biggest misconception/ misrepresentation when it comes to the subject. There is notion that men have always been able to sleep around and until recently women were vilified for doing the same.
The reality is historically speaking the only men who were ‘sleeping around’ or had multiple partners were Kings, Emperors, Alpha’s of the tribe. Every other male most of the time only had 1 sexual partner in their lives. Society changed and evolved but the element of high quality men (Alpha male) having multiple partners while the rest of men had few or none still existed.
The reason men having multiple partners is ‘glorified’ is because it represented being a high value man.
The truth is most of the men nowdays would not be able to have 1 partner back when ‘it was ok for men to sleep around but not women’. Women being liberal with sex has glorified sex for men and women.
If you look at developed Islamic countries you will see a much higher % of women going into STEM fields at university and career wise, despite the culture there being much more sexist and restricted. The choices young girls make in countries where they either have to support themselves financially as an adult or marry a man to support them (and be restricted) tends to go towards STEM or higher earning fields
This is it, and would that be considered broken? It reflects what’s actually happening today. Say Kings, Emperors, Alphas etc account for what we call the “top 5%” or “high-value” today. These men are still the ones most likely to be sleeping with lots of women in the modern dating world. They are the ones with the options. That’s not meaning to say all of them are that way, or a number of people outside of that aren’t also doing it, just what is most likely. People outside of that bracket are more likely to pursue one woman and hold onto her, which is great but if they had always been considered high-value, would they remain the same? Fewer options will do a hell of a lot to your values. And that’s ignoring what the modern woman might do if she could get an upgrade - it seems a lot about ticking boxes these days.
A big problem is a woman for some men high value could just mean her appearances, whereas men need to possess more than that to be considered high value in these women’s psyche. That leaves the balance extremely outnumbered and that’s how we end up with all the data the dating apps show us.
I think part of it is confusing a high value man’s intentions when it comes to receiving matches. A match for a hookup is different than a match for a potential relationship, but I think that is often missed.
Women gives themselves away, man darts and she realizes that the dude was only after one thing.
As I said before, under the guise of liberation they end up feeling used when really if the man was made to graft a bit more, they get to know eachother etc - these things could have been avoided. It would lead to better men and better women.
I can’t date now as I am religious and practicing so it is marriage only and I noticed that as soon as I wasn’t looking to get laid and in fact was actively resisting desires of that kind, women could almost sense that and I was getting far more attention from them.
From women at check out isles starting conversations with me and random girls coming up and complimenting my cologne to getting regular marriage interest from women in my religious community.
Studies show most women find most men unattractive. I think a good message to young men is that women likely find you remarkably unattractive. So ,focus on the qualities women actually find attractive in their desired partner.
1.Confidence and capability
2.Social status and peer respect from other men
3.Financial stability and earning potential
4.Morals and ethics
Most young men are so crippled by insecurity just having the real confidence to approach a woman and engage her in an actual conversation for 5 minutes puts you in the top 10% of men.
But in my view don’t date a bunch of women for casual sex. Find someone you want to have kids with and make a family and a life. Revolt against the modern world, instead of chasing it. Lots of casual sex doesn’t make most of us happy. It usually has the opposite affect.
I somewhat disagree with this. I actually think the "top 5% are sleeping with less women now then they have historically due to the ‘value’ of women now days being diminished. It’s one thing for a king to have sex 100 women who are either virgins or slept with only one man and being a man now to have sex with 100 women who have slept with 10+ people each. Now days high value men tend to only sleep with high value women.
We live in a time where more low value men are having sex with more women than ever because if high value men don’t sleep with them they must prove their ‘value’ lower the totem pole so to speak.
I think the issue is more that what makes a man high value in regards to settling down with and what makes a man high value to fuck are the same thing. This means that a man does not decrease in value with every body count
However, for a woman she is high value for fucking based on just appearance and high value for settling down if she is loyal, not readily available to men etc. This means that a lot of high value women for fucking end up being low value when it comes to starting a family
Attractive yet readily available (on an app) prime example of high value for fucking but low value for a relationship
Worse thing is I don’t think any man is after that one thing. I think women just tend to give it up to easily that they themselves rule themselves out of being more than just a fuck
Is that right? I assumed that mens virginity almost doubling between a certain age meant that girls are sleeping with the top 5% and lots of men are finding it tough to find mates, of course porn is a factor that has been mentioned before but I’m not sure these women lower their standards.
I think it is in between those things. I don’t think top 5% is required for a guy to do “well” with women. I think it is more like now the bottom group of men is excluded. I think that explains the rising virginity or “haven’t had sex in the last year” graphs (which show women also have increasing percents too, just less so than men).
Those virginity stats/ no sex in a year graphs also tend to ask “sex with a woman” so not only do they ignore whether someone has had sex prior to the 12 months but also ignores those with only male partners.
Also ( potentially off topic) the average man in his 20-30s now compared to two decades ago is drastically less masculine and dare I say lower value.
Perhaps I’m wrong (genuinely) but I feel like men in-between high value and in between bottom of the barrel have enough options to sleep around
This is the kind of stuff people like Rollo Tomassi put out and in general I think it is a good analysis of reality, however the people who are drawn to it are usually always complaining about the dating game, merely because they are losers in it. Not because they are actually morally outraged by it. It is also hyper specific to the middle class white western demographic. Mainly because white western middle class people are the only almost entirely secular and liberal people on the planet.
I have been all over the world and people in most cultures are married in their teens, are parents by 20 and lots of cultures men often take second wives etc.
I see lots of western guys complaining about the sexual marketplace, but if both sexes hold nothing sacred and see sex as merely about pleasure, both sexes are primarily only going to want to have casual sex with the hottest people they can convince to have sex.
An average white man in the US can easily find a traditional religious wife who is looking for marriage, but I have found most men complaining about hypergamy and female plate spinning are simply mad that they haven’t made themselves successful within a framework, that if they could thrive in it, with have no real moral issues with.
Thus the people upset women only want to be with a successful, masculine, high earning man, are the type of guys who want women far hotter than them, are typically not attractive themselves and they are losers in their work and social lives.
It reminds me of the meme where some basement dwelling gamers goes “where are all the traditional virgin tradcath wives i deserve”.
And across is a beautiful traditional christian waifu woman and her speech bubble is “I wish i could find a neurotic pale short unsuccessful service employee to marry and have children with and be financially dependent on”
An average man is not going to be as attractive as they were in the past due to economic reasons. My Grandad post war as a factory worker straight out of high school bought a car a house, and could run a home with a housewife and 4 kids on one entry level salary.
If he was born today he would be working a losers retail or service job, never be able to afford his own home, he would probably of had to live at home into his twenties.
Western modern conditions are horrific for creating an easy ability to have and keep a family. Contrasting it with my experiences in Asia, the poor there can have a home even if it is a glorified shack. They earn barley anything but it costs barley anything to live.
Their women are far more traditional and are usually virgins till marriage. And they won’t divorce because they have an actual functioning patriarchy. Drop one of those guys off in the west, he will have more electronic crap and a nicer smartphone, but he won’t be able to have his own home, or have a family who stay at homme, everything costs more etc.
Being masculine and independent in the west is way harder than it is anywhere I’ve ever seen in the east.
I’m surprised you hold views like this and still identify as a liberal (or left-leaning) to be honest. I know this thread isn’t about you or your political beliefs, but a lot of the left has bought into equality of outcomes… hell, it’s the backbone of the now ‘woke’ movement.
Yes definitely. Patriarchy is the worlds oldest surviving institution and was created for the benefit of women and children.
The collapse of Patriarchy is why women’s self reported happiness level is always lower in the most free and highest scoring (by feminist standards) societies for women’s rights and “gender equality and equity”.
My grandmother was obedient to my Grandfather, wore the headscarf like a good Christian, didn’t gender mix. Her role was having babies, running a house and supporting my Grandad. She died happy surrounded by family, her long life was full of meaning and purpose and belonging.
My Mother and Aunties had one or two kids, worked full time with their husbands also working full time. They were constantly stressed, they had to juggle multiple roles and because women flooded the workforce them and their husbands both working full time earned less than my Grandad did working one full time job.
The knock on effect of that was my cousins and sisters and their friends are now a complete mess, most havge no kids, one or two at most as outliers. None are married except a few outliers again. Most have some form of mental illness, from depression to full blown disorders. They work long hours doing jobs they hate and come home and watch netflix.
The life of a western woman was purposefully destroyed by the modern world. Meanwhile 30 minutes from me is a large Jewish, Muslim and Orthodox mixed area. Almost all the women do not work, are deeply religious and their lives are the same as my Grandmothers. Except they are now poorer and have to get by with far less than my Grandmothers generation. But they have lots of kids, they have meaning and purpose.
I am leaving the west next year again, probably for good this time. Whenever I come back here seeing how my female cousins and sisters live actually gives me depression.
So do you believe that women’s primary purpose is to be a homemaker?
If so, I will respectfully disagree.
While I do believe that this may be the case for some, even many, women, I also believe that women should have a choice.
They shouldn’t be pressured to be homemakers, nor should they be forced into careers for the sake of political correctness
For instance, my worst nightmare is being stuck at home as a stay at home mum. I can’t stand children and value my intellect. I want a career and would put publishing papers over children anyday. I am not the norm, but I want the choice rather than being forced to be a mum or shunned as a spinster. My value to society is not producing children
Women are forced to work a dead end job for no reason and die alone with their cats and dildos now. I prefer when we forced them to pursue their natural role as mothers, wives and the very pillar of society.
Absolute individual freedom is one of the worst things to happen to society. Total liberation from societal standards is slavery to our darkest desires and internal ignorance.
The reality is all societies are built through force and maintained and expanded through force and the only choice is what do we want forced on society?
This is why conservatives in the west have lost every single battle they ever fought. Because the thing they are conserving, philosophical liberalism, is inherently a globalizing and progressive force.
Women like children need a patriarchy to protect them not just from men but also from themselves. Female suffrage was a mistake. But so was male suffrage. Ultimately for the west to recover and for men and women to live as they are supposed to, the idolatry of democracy needs to be smashed into a thousand pieces.
