Huh?!
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There are a lot of aspects of romance that map beautifully to Econ.
For example, marriage ~ contract theory
“don’t text forever” can be modeled by a cheap talk model
I was thinking it would be a nice (very) long term side project to try to see if I could try to build some models
“Econ and dating science”
Ah. Okay, then.
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Besides asking directly? Because that’s not invasive.
I would reverse that to “assume single unless proven taken”. It is very hard to not mention your significant other to someone who you see enough to be a casual acquaintance. “Sorry my girlfriend is calling” “I watched this movie with my girlfriend” “I need to leave early I have plans with my gf” “My girlfriend is mad at me”
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On the topic of modern dating and touching on what you guys have talked about previously, I absolutely hate how things just aren’t organic anymore. I’m 33 and like many others here, I consider myself to be part of the last generation that experienced life and “coming of age” before everyone had social media. This meant I spent my twenties seeing it slowly take a grip on the world and ending up where it is now.
Human biology and mating has been the same for a long, long time. The past 10-15 years have completely changed everything and evolutionary, physically and mentally we just weren’t ready for this shit.
For boys it’s usually the average guy compulsively dating, a minimal amount of options, like a girl and then get binned for a guy that happens to tick another one of her arbitary requirement boxes. Meanwhile the top 10% are making their way through dozens of girls, developing a sort of extremist misogynistic attitude.
For girls it’s often giving up goods very early, all whilst having a seemingly unlimited amount of options. Then they get upset that a man finds it hard to commit to her when she doesn’t find someone that attains her high standards.
I get the whole “we’re just doing what men have always done”, and both genders can be considered at fault for differing reasons. But the idea of things happening naturally and falling for someone warts and all… is it thrown out of the window? This is just the impression that I get. I’m not in the dating world and have been settled for around 8 years now.
Am I wrong?
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@cdep89 No, you’re not wrong. You can see my posts in this thread that line right up with all of this.
Sadly most men, even those suffering from womanlessness or the inability to find wife-material women don’t like solutions to this debacle.
What are the solutions that you imply?
No porn, stop using social media, actually put yourself in situations to meet people, work harder to reach the standards women want?
What are your thoughts on the importance of “bodycount”?
I might get back to this after the weekend.
Are you referring to one’s own body count or vetting women according to their body count?
A womans bodycount and it’s importance or lack of to you.
As I’ve written here and elsewhere, it is very important considering the more sexual partners a woman has the more likely she is to be dissatisfied in marriage or divorce. Of the women I know since middle school who were sexualized early, excessively social, and seemed to be never without a “boyfriend”, all but one are divorced or in a second marriage. @cdep89
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Loss of ability to pair bond is one.
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I mimic those thoughts but almost feel I need to speak with caution because if I suggest the impact it has to females I know, I almost get ostracised for double standards or misogyny.
There is a way the world has always been and a few decades of wokeness, equality, whatever doesn’t change that. Socially women have always been considered lower value if they sleep around, and women have always been as quick to slander it as men have been. All I see is these type of woman getting passed around social circles under the guise of liberation and then being upset that very few men are legitimately interested. Contraceptives are still a very, very new thing in the grand scheme of things. A man would need to know a baby is his so not to waste resources raising someone elses child. I haven’t got any statistics or whatever but the amount of single mothers numbers are probably sky rocketing and have been in that direction for years, most men don’t want to settle for raising someone elses child. Some end up doing that and loving that kid but it is not the scenario they always had for themselves.
It gets spun into being possessive and against the whole “my body, my rules” thing but all the damage is out there to see.
On the mens side of things, and I’m not saying it’s fair. Woman have always been attracted to the man of status who has lots of female attention. These are the facts. I am very left-leaning but no matter how much someone wishes it could or should be this way, you cannot beat biology.
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@cdep89 Good post.
Would you be ostracized for staying what observation and research shows? What is going to happen to you or any man for making some unflattering remarks about women?
If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? I’m not asking in a condescending way. I’m 43 now, middled aged, and I don’t intend to be a sort of old geezer talking down to young people. I empathize with young men whi don’t want to get on the wrong side of women because that is an understandable inclination. Likely why I am transparent on this topic is because my trajectory is set: I am married with children, have close friends, and spend much time with family members. If people don’t like what I think or say, these people will not stop loving and caring for me.
Furthermore it is unlikely that all people will like us anyway.
Increasingly many young men do not and won’t have the aforesaid social connections. And as you might observe, in a gynecocracy/matriarchy, men watch their p’s and q’s for fear that women will not like what they have to say. And I have previously covered why in such a scene men become excessively concerned with female validation and approval.
I don’t consider this a double standard. It is actually a high standard. I believe one of the most important decisions a young woman makes is who she lets get on top of her. And considering I have been around many women nearly every day for a long time, I have the observation to back this up.
Additionally, the way to regulate a market, in this case, the sexual market, is to regulate the supply side. If sex is treated seriously, that is, men would have to show value and commitment to get it, their conduct would change accordingly. Of course there will and always have been poon hounds (who I don’t think are cool for screwing many women), much of the fun and games are drastically lower in enforced monogamy.
The numbers started increasing after the Sexual Revolution came along, and skyrocketed after “no-fault” (meaning no justice) divorce came along. And now 25 percent of homes are fatherless, a phenomenon that is associated with every social pathology and a contributing factor to our ridiculously swollen prison population!
Some men truly are salt of the earth, and are capable of loving and raising children that are not biologically theirs. Others cannot even love their own. However, as you say, most men aspire to have their own children. Although having children is certainly not unique, there is nothing like multiplying oneself and seeing one’s own characteristics, maybe even talents, in children.
As much as some men want to go along with such “liberation” and say, “it doesn’t matter how many partners a woman has has,” they cannot override their natural instincts, that make them discriminate against such women.
I have experienced inceldom and a manwhore phase. Inceldom was miserable and screwing around was not liberating for me.
How so, if you don’t mind me asking. All of what you wrote is 100% accurate, but are you aware that it was liberal attitudes and policies that broke the sexual market, wrecked homes, and screwed up many kids?
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I’m 33 and i’m not implying that i’m scared to speak my thoughts on it, just that it’s tiring to listen to many women having to instinctively defend this attitude to sex because it’s made out to be a boy vs girl thing when it’s not at all.
This isn’t the place for my other views on politics but the reason I said I’m left-leaning is despite that, I still see how broken being so liberal about all this is. From the underage girls in the gym wearing next to nothing, the people giving out nude selfies as if they were nothing, all the way to saying all men are trash because they keep getting hurt after giving out what should have been a bit more sacred away too soon.
I’ve had my days of being a manwhore too, and that’s often the entire argument that will be used against me. How many of these girls did I hurt though because woman were not meant to be opening legs for someone they just met and who will dart tomorrow morning and try to never speak to them again? They may have felt used, they may not of told anyone, they may have got slut shamed by their friends. In the long-run, we all seek connection and like you, it was not liberating at all. The main kicker between the both though is a man does not need to like a girl to sleep with her, a woman needs to like the man at least a little bit. It is as primitive as it can get, we want to spread our seed, woman need a man that they know will be there for the child.
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I think it’s a self serving bias thing.
For most ppl, sex is pleasurable. There’s even research (by one of my mentors no less) showing that, on average, women get a very slightly greater boost in happiness from sex than men. So of course when in popular culture, male sexuality is more or less glorified, girls want in.
I am asexual. I literally do not feel sexual pleasure and I probably will never have sex. However as a female, I still find myself getting defensive sometimes. This might just be me, but the (legitimate) guarding of sexuality and historic, genuinely sexist, exclusion of females from areas such as sports and academia are too similar at face value for comfort.
While it maybe true that many women are content with being the primary home makers, not all were/are and at least in the past, those who wanted more weren’t given a choice. For example, having kids would be a nightmare for me. I don’t even think I’m suited for a long term romantic partnership. Because of the many social changes, I can pursue a career and not be held back by children. Only decades ago, someone like me would have had a much more difficult time even without children due to lack of legal protections.
Easy access to birth control gave women an illusion of freedom and control. Girls could have “just as much fun” as the boys.
At the end of the day, people just want to justify the things that give them pleasure. It’s similar to the people who come up with justifications for why casual drinking isn’t so bad
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I know a woman who doesn’t even enjoy sex that much but still sleeps around because she feels it’s all she has to offer. I know another woman who is super sexual and loves it so much and explores it every week with new partners. It isn’t black and white and we all do have a right to justify the things we enjoy. In regards to the latter woman though, she would not have been able to do that before contraceptives and when she finally decides to settle down she’ll likely have to lie about her bodycount. If it was all so liberating and the way they want to be, why do these girls have to hide it? They know instinctively it lowers their value. If you asked a woman like this why they lie it’s because “of men that have outdated ideals”. The whole career thing is another chat altogether but also has some massive self-serving bias involved when it comes to the apparent pay gap.
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oh definitely.
the pay gap is largely due to children and childcare responsibilities (taken willingly!!!) lowering productivity or women choosing to turn down opportunities because of children/family
Interestingly enough, raising children, on average, makes men happier than women
OTOH, I’d never discourage another woman from having kids. I am able to freeride off of their “service”
Childbearing is a massive part of it, but women are also less likely to work in the higher paying STEM fields or do the more dangerous jobs. There is an equal opportunity but not an equal outcome. People have tried to justify it through conditioning but the research has shut it down pretty emphatically.
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yeah… men are physically more capable in most of such jobs. On average, men also have higher risk tolerance. A large part of that is biological
I have a hard time believing that this is not the result of decades/centuries of sexism and academic gatekeeping
Then you’ll find it really hard to believe that in the countries with more gender equality the trend is actually going in the opposite direction. More gender equality = less women in STEM fields.
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