The Dating Thread

The sexual revolution refers to the social movement that altered traditional relationship dynamics, societal norms pertaining to how we treat human sexuality. The general consensus as to when the social movement started was in the 1960’s.

The development of hormonal contraception coupled with the rise of second wave feminism kicked it off. Hormonal contraception in itself wasn’t a bad idea, there are therapeutic indications for hormonal contraception aside from “I want to have sexytime with randoms and I don’t like condoms, so I’m going to behave like a moron and prey I don’t catch an STD but at the same time I’m not going to take any precautions.”

There is the argument some STD’s are on track to becoming obsolete. HIV is due to become extinct over the next few decades and other STD’s are becoming less and less of an issue as medical technology has advanced as to make presentations relatively asymptomatic and/or very easily treatable. Whereas a few decades before the 60’s syphilis could cause insanity… It could kill you…

These variables within themselves don’t encompass the sexual revolution. The revolution refers to our social dynamic, our moral fabric fundamentally changing. The increase in single parent households, children born without parents to raise them, failed marriages, misandric societal sentiment, social repercussions via friendships/relationships destroyed through “cOnSeQuEnCe FrEe SeXyTiMeZ”.

The most interesting aspect of the perceived utopia youth counterculture was trying to envision was/is the median number of sexual partners per person hardly changed. People aren’t having less sex, I believe you’ve alluded to this prospect. Hypergamy leading to isolated and rejected men, however surveys are indicative the mean number of sexual partners has almost remained stagnant since the 1940’s, and men consistently score a higher body count on average. But you’d think a ‘FrEe MaRkEt’ would lead to more sex. This is only the case for the most attractive and/or successful individuals.

Some argue the sexual revolution started in the 1920s with the advent of flappers, I’d argue only the most socially conservative of people actually believe this. Flappers were socially stigmatised, they weren’t accepted with open arms. The true definition of the revolution infers a paradigm where promiscuity isn’t stigmatised, the 1920’s doesn’t entail this.

The sexual revolution by definition doesn’t go back thousands of years either. Paradigm shifts occur, the pendulum swings back and forth. You have societies founded before Christianity was even on the map that broke down due to degeneracy and unchecked hedonism. This isn’t equitable to a sexual revolution of its own, the sexual revolution was the advent of birth control + second wave feminism enforcing a societal construct promoting promiscuity.

The good things that came out of the sexual revolution were

  • a focus on female pleasure, sex needn’t be one sided
  • advancements in medical technology. Medications like Allylestrenol wouldn’t have been developed otherwise… A medication used as a preventative measure against those at risk of miscarriage.

The rest, in my perspective is problematic. But despite being generally pessimistic I’m not quite as pessimistic as you are about this because I believe this is a phase. The pendulum swings… Only I hope the next swing will eventuate in a middle ground akin to 1950’s culture without the racism/discriminatory attitudes as opposed to society turning into a sexually repressed hellscape that neither of us would be remotely happy in.

If you believe elements of the sexual revolution have been around for thousands of years, I ask you (without judgement)… What era would you perceive as optimal? We are referring to a utopian ideal. When would you have rather been born and raised?

In this utopian ideal, how is sexuality viewed? How many restrictions are present over sexual activity? Are we going to restrict the positions one can copulate in? What you can and can’t do with your wife behind closed doors? What age are we going to allow people to tie the knot? It’s a silly expectation to expect people to stay chaste until they’re in their mid twenties. What if two partners have a relationship that is irrevocably broken? What is the divorce policy for abusive, toxic relationships or adultery? How do you stop premarital sex from ever occuring? Finally… If we refer to your ideal (no judgement) how do you envision this affecting the dating scene relative to today? Do you have a means to decrease the sheer level of insecurity many men and women harbour today? Do we have safeguards against toxic people? What about inter religious marriage? How do we deal with the familial conflict this can cause? If I brought home a non Jewish girl and told my family “I’m getting married!” I’d be in hot water…

I get where they’re coming from, without the mother being of Jewish heritage and/or converting, your child is no longer considered biologically Jewish from an orthodox perspective. He/she won’t be granted a bat/bar mitzvah at an orthodox synagogue. You/your family may be subject to ostracism by various sects of the community etc. This is where my issues come in with organised religion. From a fundamental standpoint, religion exists to instill positive morale/values. But it’s very much “my way or the highway” and if you stray… Good luck and goodbye…

So… If we are to build a society constructed around religious law, how do we get around this when it comes to dating? I don’t like the “keep to your own kind” trope as it is reminiscent of segregation. I find such a practice barbaric and immoral. You can’t preach morality yet separate people by force on the basis of religious affiliation (not referring to you… Talking about generalities).

What of the people like myself who believe in (most) of the moral fundamentals imposed by (most) religions, but I don’t have any reason to believe what occured in the Torah/Bible actually occured. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t… I don’t have blind faith and utter devotion, I’ve never seen any proof that would have me infer the stories are real, but I’ve seen a good deal of proof on the contrary, with the theory of evolution (it’s not ‘just a theory’ either) being the most damning. I see the stories as a means to impose good morals. What happens to my demographic? To note, no judgement… I won’t even get angry if you say “Pack them on horseback and send them out to the desert!'”

I think when we are unhappy with the current status quo, frequently we develop a false, utopian and fantasical frame of reference over how other societies might have been like.

The perfect society we are looking for… It doesn’t exist. I highly doubt biblical times entailed an easy, trauma free lifestyle. There are better options to that of what we have today, but these options existed in the past.

I also happen to believe the sexual revolution played a role re societal decay… But it was far from the only variable at hand. I don’t think those who adhere to modern western social norms are bad people either. If you’ve been misled or indoctrinated… Is it your fault? I don’t think so…

Finally, I will mention this. Centralised control over the population incurred through the use of government in modern times has NEVER led to high populational satisfaction/quality of life. Look at the happiest, most prosperous countries on earth. America doesn’t even rank, but one can see none of the top countries are authoritarian regimes.

Centralised control and force works. But it involves going against what the masses want. It is cruel and tyrannical; and while it may work; it doesn’t lead to a high degree of populational happiness.

Aside from Singapore, which DT79 has touched on why it works over there and only over there… I’d challenge you to find one modern authoritarian state with a happy population, one that isn’t guilty of countless violations of basic human rights and isn’t the brunt of widespread condemnation.

A utopian ideal takes the geopolitical element out of the equation

I’m not trying to be condescending. I’m curious as to whether you have a detailed proposal for a framework that could improve things. I think society is too divided at the moment, and my proposal is to set up separate (albeit not segregated, tourism/visiting is a-okay, but you need to take accountability for your own actions) communities.

Yeah I’ve started a no fap and stopping watching porn. I think that I already have high enough standards to not add unrealistic ones on top of it.

Plus recent research showing indeed bac effects on the brain and all.

Honestly, dating, I suck at it ahah. Right now I have abandonned the idea for a while and focusing on some other stuff.

With girls I like I’m too nice and agreeable and I don’t make the interaction man to woman.

With girls that I don’t or that are too far for my taste I’m just myself and they like it, but heh.

I don’t want to hit on girls at the gym because I work there.

And interactions through social media suck. My girl friends have shown me the literal hundreds of message they receive. That’s discouraging and it’s not a priority enough for me to put the work in to that extent

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I’ll join you… I need support with the quitting of pornography… As embarrassing as that is. I’ll admit I was wrong… It’s easy to quit for a month or so… Then I keep falling back into my old habits… Looking at it a couple times per week.

Note when I refer to porn I’m talking about sexually explicit XXX content. I don’t consider a swimsuit magazines or (gasp) even playboy to be particularly problematic. You can buy playboy (depending on the issue) where I live if you are above the age of fifteen. To anyone who thinks that is absurd… Different cultures… Very different approach to sex relative to that of the US. We clamp down on violence hard, but sexual content provided the context isn’t absolutely gratuitous isn’t seen in a negative light. Though Australia as a whole does have many regulations over what porn is/isn’t legal, far more overt censorship relative to the US. Hardcore porn on video in physical copies to my knowledge actually can’t be sold in my state.

I won’t stop the former though, I don’t have a girlfriend or a wife. However I’d be comfortable with that as I see no reason to believe masturbation is bad (on the contrary there are documented health benefits associated with regular ejaculation). I see a reason to believe PORN is bad.

If I had a long term partner, I’d be comfortable with no longer masturbating. Until then, I just don’t see how it’s possible… Seems like an unrealistic expectation .

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Girls tend to not be into very passive, overtly nice guys

I question the character of someone who is comfortable with having so many guys on the line. Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted your post.

I wouldn’t say this. It’s more that passivity doesn’t convey strength. Women don’t like pushovers

The word coined by the alt-right that has now become mainstream/not associated with political extremism is “simp”.

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Yeah I agree with you. I’ll just not do it everyday ahah.

These messages are not sollicitated… Girls are just spammed. I know even of girls with little following (like 200 on IG) who had message from literal TV reality stars hitting on them and all ahahah

Yesss. I have been working on me to impose myself more, and think of me first. It’s hard work ahah.

Right now I’m reading “No More Mister Nice Guy”

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That’s very odd… What is wrong with people

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I’m mediocre looking at best.
A friend from the gym freshman year (good looking senior getting lots of action on tinder) still had the nerve to send me a dick pic

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I have no idea what you look like

I’m not trying to simp all over you, so don’t take this as me hitting on you because this is NOT the case.

I recall you saying you were fat when you had a body fat percentage equitable to that of a female athlete. I don’t trust your judgement on this matter (no offence). I have no idea what you look like. Maybe you are mediocre looking, maybe you are attractive… Maybe you are unattractive…

But I recall you are overtly critical of yourself.

As to the freshman… I don’t understand the concept of sexting… It takes ONE screenshot and your penis/vagina is potentially circulating forever.

I’ve had people ask me for pictures like that. To which I’ve always said “no, if you want to see that you’ve got to meet up with me in person… And I need to know you better”.

Always stumps people. Why on earth would I take such a risk for someone I hardly know… I wouldn’t even do that for my wife if I had one…

I don’t even like posting pictures of myself on social media. Most recent pic (Instagram) was taken almost a year ago.

On Facebook? Over two years… Except for my profile pic… But that picture is a joke picture… It’s great … I have like 100 of them

Granted I intend to start posting again when I go overseas. Photos with family are important

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No worries, I assume ppl are just being nice until proven otherwise

I was fat in comparison to where I was

So I’m around 13% body fat, I used to be 17% body fat… I was fat compared to where I am now

But I was never fat… I’ve only been “fat” once. My metabolism is embarrassingly slow, keeping fat off is difficult for me. Once I let go for six weeks and I shot up to nearly 25% BF.

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Are you looking for eventual marriage?

Yes. I’ve never been interested in non-serious stuff

I disagree with this within reason. Obviously the stereotypical “simp” behavior is a little much, but there’s a ton of girls who have just been mistreated their whole life and go absolutely ape shit over a guy who genuinely treats them nice

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I don’t think he’s saying that women prefer distant arseholes, it’ more a “lack of challenge” (ie everything is “yes honey”)

For example, I find my gym buddy too accommodating. My friend (that one) OTOH will tell me if I’m being immature or if something in my model doesn’t make sense

BTW, my dad and little bro are like this. My dad essentially gets bulled by mum sometimes and it sucks that he doesn’t stand up for himself.
Little bro grew up doing whatever I told him to. IT was cool for a while, but now that he’s 18, I wish he’d no do that.

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No… Some women, particularly young women are drawn to assholes as they can’t decipher the difference between ‘confident’ and ‘arrogant prick.’

Some women who have been abused in the past will also unfortunately seek out partners who harbour similar red flags to that of prior abusers/neglectful parental figures.

However NORMAL women do NOT like assholes. But they aren’t going to fall for a guy who bends over backwards all day long. This behaviour comes across as odd, do they expect something in return?

Be respectful, thoughtful and kind… But set boundaries, no one likes a pushover.

But what do I know… I’m just a young whippersnapper.

I feel the need to add this to my repertoire because it’s a hilarious description. I will however credit you when I mention it

According to google images, this is a stank face

It’s just as glorious as I imagined it would be. I have an idea for a new Facebook profile pic…

Imagine a bunch of grown men bouncing around in a frenzy giving one another this face. Everyone has this facial expression.

“Hey, could you please tell me where the nearest bathro-.”

Man turns around and stares me down with this stank face (copyright Brickhead)

Unreal24278 hits the legs (Aussie slang for sprinting as fast as possible).

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exactly

@unreal24278 You have gone in too many directions for which further discussion will derail the thread even more. I will only discuss the sexual revolution as it pertains to dating, which it has greatly affected, so much that the dynamics of courtship, dating, and the sexes generally have become thoroughly disordered.

After today or tomorrow, I will likely go back to less frequent posting. I had time this and last week because I was off from work due to having covid.

I am not offering unsolicited advice. So this post simply goes over my thoughts on the subject. If any man thinks it’s sensible and wants to follow it or thinks what I have to say is nonsense, so be it. What’s frequently implied in these sorts of threads is that I am delusional despite if any thoughtful, single man of modest means, in this day and age were to think about things, they would conclude what others and I have to say is dead on!

I actually think there are some lurkers who have read what I have to say and think to themselves, “That guy has it right. This is exactly what I am experiencing, have experienced, and what I am seeing.”

What are you unrealistic expectations? I am assuming they are physical and sexual expectations that cannot be met by most women. A man should not marry a woman he has absolutely not attracted to but I find it hard to believe that men with normal libidos cannot have arousal from ordinary-looking women. I just don’t buy it, and I believe a fixation on female looks is present because of the impression having a stunning woman has on other people. This is exacerbated by the matriarchal environment in which we live, where female sexuality is plastered and showcased all over the place. Because of this, female validation for men has taken soared to a whole other level, and many men consider this this validation as a measure of their worth as men. Hence some men consider a “lay count” and being “successful with women” as measures of their worth.
Kind of like, “I be a good boy. See, women approve of me; they have sex with me; they think I’m a hot guy.”

I’m sure you know looks, though important to a degree, do not correlate to how good of a mother a woman is going to be. And in the age of social media, a whole other ball game has come into the picture, and the partners of exceptionally attractive and attention-craving women have to deal with that. Attractive mothers and wives compulsively posting seductive photos on social media is not unusual. If a man can endure these sorts of shenanigans, then that’s his prerogative.

That’s a good idea. Unfortunately we live in a place where men have to resort to “hitting on” and “picking up” women and “running game”, sort of like being a court jester. Hence the term “jestermaxxing”. I consider it fitting.

At 42 years old, after much observation, thought, and reading, I now conclude that having a girlfriend as an adult, say past 22 years old, is similar to a grown man playing with toy trucks! Because we live in an age in which women are racking up one degree and accolade after another and climbing career ladders, in order to have companionship and sex, men seek and have “relationships” that are bound to end, with nothing even coming out of the relationship in the end except broken hearts and life disruption. So, all that time with girlfriends and no kids, no pooling of resources, no serious bonds formed between both partners’ families. Such a scenario now strikes me as one of the most thorough draining of a man’s resources and time. All that time living with someone else, pretty much one of the most serious and difficult things a man can do considering the restrictions and sacrifices that come with it, with no significant outcome. No thanks!

So I cannot blame a man for not wanting to be involved in modern “dating” or having a girlfriend.

If I were in my early twenties now, knowing what I know, and with the aim of finding a wife and having a family one day, I would only try to court an interested woman who has the aim of getting married and having children. Although I would think cohabitation is suboptimal, I would realize that in this day and age, with the aforementioned education and career obsession, witholding cohabitation and waiting for sex until marriage is unrealistic. So I would only have a physical relation and cohabitate with a woman who was serious about marriage and children. No dating, and no living together with no life goals in sight!

This is of course my take on things and what I would do if I were single in the current hellscape. Other men will think what they want and handle their lives how they see fit. This just happens to be a topic I have interest in, as some here already know. I already knew at thirteen years old that things were starting to get disordered and strange in the “dating scene”.

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Just go look at any performer or fan in hardcore, punk, emo, gangster rap, death metal, or any other edgy genre, and you’ll see plenty of stank faces. Some hardcore gyms and social hot spots too. There are plenty of stank faces to be found in my town. It has a lot of gym rats and good looking young people. I don’t know how it happened, but there are some good genes flowing thorough here. The “don’t mess with me” aura is in style though.

The stank face is not that exaggerated in all cases. Sometimes it’s a dead stare or clenched jaw.

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