I don’t disagree, especially with the “constant pleasure” argument.
My point is that there’s no real reason to completely abstain given that moderate engagement in such activities for those without partners has no downsides (unlike food, wine, marijuana)
From a rational perspective, alcohol should not be consumed, but it’s socially acceptable. I’d argue that having a regular self pleasure habit is less harmful than getting smashed even once.
Note: I do not engage in any of the behaviours described above. I avoid drink, smoke, consume weed or engage in sexual activity not bc I think any are morally wrong but bc for me, the cost outweighs the benefit (ie I do not find any of them pleasurable)
I don’t know who you’ve been exposed to, and although I’ve been exposed to loads and loads of defective people, I’ve also been exposed to people who made wise decisions and excelled for, uh… their whole lives! Granted their success is not due only to their own volition, decision making, self-control and effort, but much of it is!
A brief list describing such young people:
No drug use.
No criminality.
No “unwanted pregnancy”.
No laundry list of “exes”, especially no laundry list of “bad boys”.
Dedication to school, trade, or profession from a young age (from garbage men to doctors).
No excessive socializing or partying.
No driving-related stupidity.
No sex with just anyone.
Is this sort of young person that foreign to you? How do they pull this off without agency and impulse control?
I have no problem with masturbation in the slightest so long as it is done privately. However I have been staying with family and I believe it would be disrespectful and disgusting to masturbate in a shower the entire family im staying with uses.
There is a plethora of clinical literature indicative occasional to regular masturbation has no I’ll effect on the male psyche, and may even decrease risk of prostatitis and prostate cancer.
I’m referring to nocturnal emissions. They’re embarrassing, and I had one in the bed my cousin usually sleeps in. I was absolutely mortified
As per my comment with the antidepressants, I’m not used to having a strong sex drive. But it’s not so overpowering I’m going to masturbate in a McDonald’s bathroom like a sexual deviant
I think masturbation is fairly difficult to abstain from if you are a single male with a high sex drive. It’s not impossible, I’ve gone quite a while without at thisnpoint and as specified… the consequence is nocturnal emissions in environments where such an event is unacceptable
Should be noted masturbating with your imagination isn’t equitable to watching porn. I don’t like porn due to the connotations associated with watching it. By consuming this content you are supporting a vile industry full of fractured individuals, sexual violence, hard drug addiction etc. It’s not the sex that necessarily bothers me… most porn stars don’t date outside of the bubble that is the adult film industry as doing so is almost impossible.
I’m meeting quite a few who appear to be having casual sex without the world falling apart. Unfortunately these encounters are few and far in between. Call it thinking with my schnoobadoodle (because this is exactly what is happening) but it does appear say… 20-30% of these encounters are harmless… and the other 70-80% lead to shattered relationships, resentment, jealousy, fights, STD’s and more.
On the fence. What are we referring to as a legal escort? I think there are a subset of very lonely men (perhaps disabled, perhaps autistic or whatever) for which this may realistically be one of the only avenues they can actually take to be physically intimate with someone.
It’s still exploitative to both the man and the woman involved, and chances are married men (and women) will seek out escorts, but it beats say… a man eventually imploding with sexual frustration and turning resentful, depressed and full of hatred.
Another issue I have is… without very stringent regulation akin to the way nanny state Aus has gone about it; legalised prostitution increases the demand for trafficked women if a very strict eye can’t be kept on the whole fiasco.
Aus virtually has no pimping, and the rate of sexual violence, suicide, STD transmission and drug abuse within the industry to my knowledge pales relative to paradigms overseas where prostitution is either legal, decriminalised or illegal. The moral qualm is… is one supporting sex trafficking?
There are two ways I would go about it. 1) the Nordic model for prostitution. A woman or a man can legally sell sex, but brothels and street soliciting is illegal. This way police can’t book a girl who has been pimped out for fifteen years and put HER in prison for prostitution. However at the same time, buying sex is a misdemeanour. Under all constructs (including Aus) being a sex worker is frowned upon, but if you tell people in Aus “I’m a single guy and I’m going to a brothel, I haven’t been with a woman in years” most aren’t going to judge you too harshly. That or flat out legalisation in the manner Australia has managed to legalise prostitution. Aus did it a long time ago, and with very stringent oversight it has worked out very well… and MOST men aren’t paying for sex. For the most part it appears to be a niche of lonely guys paying for companionship, sex or both.
The alternate avenue for lonely guys is “sex therapy”, but depending on the context… this is glorified prostitution.
My brother fits this criteria, he could almost certainly get married and raise a kid now. I know a few others that fit a similar mould. However my brother is also very stubborn and emotionally immature at times, therefore while he COULD raise a kid it wouldn’t be optimal.
I know of a few however that I could foresee realistically being able to father a child at 22-23.
I’m going to tell you what I actually see, in graphic detail.
Most young people I know have tried soft drugs, but the vast, vast majority aren’t stoner’s or “psychonauts” either. You may not like this, but I went to university and the prevalence of cannabis use was absurdly high and the prevalence of ecstacy use was also through the roof though most only used it once or twice in the six months I was there (I never took it). Cannabis by most was probably smoked 2-3 timee per month by most, myself included.
I think there was ONE person on my floor who didn’t use drugs at least once during the six months I was there… she didn’t use drugs… she just drank… a lot…
As to unwanted pregnancy, I only distantly know one teenager who got pregnant. Most are very careful if they play that game (of sleeping around)… I’m talking birth control + condoms. If anything, those in long term relationships appeared to take more chances with bs like the “pull-out method”.
Depends, at university I thought most partied far too often. Many would outright skip class because they were too hungover/faded or ditch class because they wanted to party. Keep in mind I wasn’t “mingling with a bad crowd”… this was the entire campus that lived on res… it was like party haven, and it’s actually why I settled down. Out of it all, drinking culture was the variable that tended to get out of hand.
I got so sick of seeing people make stupid decision after stupid decision yet fail to take responsibility or acknowledge wrongdoings.
With that being said… outside of living on res most young people, myself included could go out and party say once a month yet otherwise stick to studying/working and exercising.
There was a lot of sex at university as sex/dance parties and whatnot tend to line up hand in hand. I didn’t meet a single guy who was a virgin/didn’t hook up at least once while they were on res. Many (who were second or third years) met long term partners on res actually, as in a hookup would turn into a long term relationship.
I even had a girl outright proposition me once or twice. As in “do you want me to come to your room/go to bed with you”.
But sex with anyone? As in “i don’t know you, we’ve never seen each other before and now we are gonna get it on!”
No, though it seemed commonplace last time I was in Europe. Sex amongst the young from what I could see PREDOMINANTLY occurs within the context of two people being in a relationship. However this is “puppy love”, dating for sex and companionship; not dating with settling down in mind.
However hookups would occur frequently, but it was typically kissing… maybe second base. Hooking up doesn’t always equate to sex… actually from what I’ve seem it usually doesn’t.
Occasionally something trashy will occur, like two people will meet and have sex in a public restroom, but this is uncommon.
Not particularly common. Though the two go hand in hand with one another. Most who have a thing for “bad boiz” have a laundry list of ex BF’s because they are choosing to go out with shitty guys.
Drug use is considered a crime in many countries. Though I believe in the country I’m currently in it is legal if done in private depending on context (like pot is fine, but harder stuff generally isn’t). Most young adults grow out of the “edgy bad boy” phase when they’re no longer teenagers.
Look, I’ll be honest and say I don’t agree with the idea people should be having kids at a young age.
Social constructs prioritising academic prosperity, individualism (you might not like it but America is like… the land of individualism), personal growth coupled with the ridiculous cost of living make such a paradigm unaffordable.
In a different time… it’d work… hell, it still works in many third world countries. Countries where people get married at 18-20, have kids at 22 or so
Should be noted the median lifespan within these countries is considerably shorter (say 60-70 as opposed to 70-80), however that gap is quickly becoming narrower and narrower.
I suppose my answer is… why? Why should people be having kids young? Reproductive years for women peak mid 20’s, maternal mortality risk is also lowest at mid 20’s… why should people put college and moving out of home on hold to have a kid? I don’t like the idea of parents having kids in their late 40s or 50s either.
From what I’ve seen, middle aged individuals having kids tend to worry too much; the end result is a helicopter parent.
I think the parent ought to be young enough to still harbour a shred of risk aversion, child like innocence and a parent ought to be fit enough to run around with their kids, play catch etc. I fondly remember my father taking me for walks under bridges, playing Frisbee and soccer with me, wrestling with me, arm wrestling me, working out with me, going on cycles with me… these events were few and far in between, but I treasure these memories.
Now imagine you’re too old and you can’t keep up with your kid… these memories will never be made.
I can understand the validity behind getting into a long term relationship from a relatively young age, but you don’t NEED to have a kid directly after marriage.
There’s a funny saying that goes… for the first 25 years of your life you have a blast, YOU are priority number one. Then you meet someone, you settle down and you have kids…
Now for the next eighteen years priority number one is your kids
Now when you’re 43 you can relax… except you’ve still got work… add another 20 years and once again, you/your wife can be priority number one.
A good reason for some is they simply want to. I didn’t say what people should do. I am talking about what some people cando.
That is, if a 20 to 23 year old woman wants three to five kids, meets a well-heeled older man, and has familial support there is no rational reason she shouldn’t do so.
I agree and I dont. I think overly young parents (anything under 25, unless you have your shit really in order) are still too busy trying to figure themselves out, and should still be aligning achievements/goals with career in mind. I also think that anything over 35 is running a risk of lowered fertility and having too much of a generational gap with your kids.
My parents were 35 when they had me, and that was right up at the crest where my parent’s never really understood me or my interests - though it wasn’t for a lack of trying. Conversely, I was 21 when my wife and I had my daughter (she’s 5 now). I was still quite young and had yet to figure out how to get my own shit in order, thus making it far more difficult adding a child into the mix.
In the end, it doesn’t much matter how old you are when you have children. The biggest things that matter are the ability to effectively provide for your family, and being mature enough to raise good humans. Wait too long and you won’t be able to have any; don’t wait long enough and you won’t make good ones.
I don’t think a 35-40y/old man should be hanging around 20 year old women. It’s creepy, chances are I’d get aggro if I saw a 40 year old man come up to my 20 y/old cousin and flirt with her. The guy was legally an adult before the woman was born… I suppose it depends on the 20y/old… but I think of my one cousin in particular and the concept disturbs me… even a 35 year old male… the gap in maturity is so large…
But yes… I agree, they can if they want… I still don’t think it’s a great idea for a 20 year old woman… 23, sure…
I don’t see a reason as to why a woman in her early-mid twenties shouldn’t be able to provided this is what she wants.
As a matter of fact I consider mid-late 20s or very early 30s to be the "best age’'… but then again, what do I know?
If we are talking young woman meets 25-30 y/old male… sure
But even then… 20 (the lower end) is young. I think there’s a fairly substantial difference between 20 and 23 for many.
Then again, everyone is different. This is what I THINK… I’m not going to stop anyone from doing anything provided everyone is above the age of consent… unless the aforementioned scenario of “40 y/old dude hits on my 20y/old cousin”… as specified, I’d be very comfortable witnessing that and I would intervene.
The rational reason as to why is due to the MASSIVE gap in maturity between a young woman and an older man. The power dynamic is heavily, heavily skewed in favour of the man. I don’t like the idea such a dynamic.
I hate to tell you man, but if you want to go through life putting yourself first, your going to be doing it alone.
At no point does anybody with a full life (wife, kids, family, friends etc) get to put themselves first.
Maybe, just maybe, for an hour or so, a few times a week you get to do something for yourself like hitting the weights or what ever, but that’s about it.
Life skill- learn how to cook with all 4 burners, cuz your going to spend most of your time on the back ones.
What I meant is, priorities shift from “getting that degree”, “helping out family”, " friends", “getting that promotion”, “making sure wife/GF us happy” to “babybabybabybaby” and all the above too… but the kid takes top priority.
Am I wrong?
And personal endeavours get put on the back burner.
Yea, I’ve been staying in a house (50% of week) and the family members who own the house have a newborn baby. He wakes us all up throughout the night… multiple times… but he’s the most adorable little baby. Tiny feet and hands
I’ve noticed they both “take turns” taking care of the baby so both can catch up on sleep, like a team sport
