yes
I do not see sex as a moral issue. THe shaming of bodily functions or natural acts really baffles me. This extends to things like farts and burps.
My only reservation with prostitutes would be the cost and potential drunkeness (again, alcohol isn’t a moral issue, it’s a health and competence issue).
This will be in it
Sex isn’t the issue. It’s the outcome. The issue is betrayal.
Ahh okay.
This might change in some years, but for now, I don’t see sex as betrayal
I see the prostitutes as a form of outsourcing to a group with a distinct comparative advantage
My only concern would be the financial cost and decrease in productivity + health costs from alcohol
It doesn’t matter what you perceive it to be unless, of course, you make it known to your potential spouse that you’re cool with it. Otherwise, he’d be a dick, to say the least, and his trustworthiness even in other matters would be in serious question.
Objectively, it’s a clear violation of the terms of the “contract” that you get into with your spouse when you get married and the spouse who has been cheated on would have legal recourse in some form depending on which country the marriage was registered in if he/she chooses to end the marriage because of this.
But I DO get what you’re saying* and I think your views will probably change with time since you’re still so young and probably haven’t met someone whom you have intense feelings for.
And your generation would be different from mine when it comes to the wife’s reaction to this since the probability of the wife having a career of her own is much higher and you’re 20 years ahead of us from the time polygamy was banned.
*it’s a Chinese cultural thing for others who may think we’re a little nuts just by reading this exchange lol:
“Two years ago the Women’s Federation in Guangzhou city called for married men who kept mistresses to be sent to labour camps.”
Why do you want a man? Either I missed your reasons or despite all your posts I cannot figure out why. I’m asking seriously.
The act of sexual intercourse isn’t a moral issue, however there is a caveat.
I used to have the same mentality, sex is between two consenting adults… That’s it
But what of the far reaching implications associated with untapped hedonism? What of the impacts this dynamic might have on your kids, on the women your husband sleeps with? What if he is unwittingly sleeping with women who are being trafficked? What if the woman your husband sleeps with is married? What if you end up finding someone who for whatever reason you ARE comfortable being intimate with? Your only nineteen, it’s not impossible to think one day you will find love that entails both voluntary physical and emotional intimacy.
I don’t like the idea of passing laws on the sole basis of vested morality, so while I don’t think we need to outlaw this kind of conduct, it should be (and is) heavily frowned upon.
Even in countries where prostitution is legal (most of Europe, Aus etc) the practice is highly stigmatised. Going to a brothel isn’t considered a good thing, though I do believe that stigma is partially removed when we refer to disabled, lonely individuals who otherwise have no feasible outlet.
I’m not saying men can’t see prostitutes, prostitution is everywhere… Middle Eastern countries have temporary marriage licenses, the US has “escorts” that you pay to date and many other countries have flat out regulated prostitution. Men in commited relationships however certainly shouldn’t feel the need to hit up a prostitute because their partner won’t have sex with them… This is not a conducive dynamic to ensure a martial bond stays intact.
Sex shouldn’t be shamed, but cheating on your partner should be. Having sex with someone else in a commited relationship ought to be heavily frowned upon too. It’s not the sex, it’s the consequences associated with the sex.
If you don’t want to be having sex, having kids or harbouring intimate emotional bonds with a partner, that’s fine… But then why on earth would you want to get married? Is this another business transaction of sorts?
If you marry into a dynamic that suits you, but tortures the partner, perpetually making him feel unwanted.. is that fair?
I was just about to ask this before I saw your reply so I’ll rephrase my question.
What do you want out of marriage? You aren’t interested in physical intimacy, you teeter on the border of being uninterested in emotional intimacy less the construct suits you. You appear to have certain expectations of what marriage entails that may not be realistic. Unless you can find a partner who is on the same page as you, a marriage like this will be doomed right at the start.
Why go through all of this effort and hardship when it appears you don’t want anything to do with the interpersonal dynamics offered through marriage.
Yes this is a big caveat.
Sexual Assault or rape are immoral.
Of course it isn’t, neither is going to bars or wasting hours playing video games
I want emotional and financial commitment and outsource sex
Agreed. However in hierarchical order I view it this way
And you’re not going to get this… or maybe you will… rather it’s extremely unlikely. You can’t get all of the attributes associated with marriage minus physical intimacy… one of the biggest constructs that mediate a healthy relationship
Outsourcing sex is a very easy way for said husband to start sleeping around, husband finds a girl he likes and chooses her over you.
Physical intimacy creates a bond between a couple that heightens emotional intimacy. It’s difficult to truly be satisfied long term if you’ve got one without the other.
As to financial commitment… So… It’s like a business transaction? I think you need to find someone who is asexual. Preferably neurodivergent and asexual
Not trying to be nasty, however I need to reiterate a marriage like this is not healthy. You might be satisfied, but chances are the husband won’t be. Marriage isn’t about YOU… It’s about the unification between two adults. Both partners deserve to be happy.
This marriage dynamic is doomed from the start unless you find a very, very rare type of person who is okay with this. Why would a normal person marry someone who isn’t going to have sex with them? Or provide any form of physical intimacy?
I’m autistic, but I like being close with people (very rare for autistic subtypes). I’m not going to marry someone who won’t even cuddle with me… I’m not going to marry someone who won’t kiss me (though I’m not a fan of French kissing), I’m not going to marry someone who I can’t raise a child with (likely adoption given my circumstances)
If you want marriage, you NEED to find someone who is on the same page. There are dating services specifically geared towards those who are asexual. Not all asexual individuals are aromantic.
I can’t understand for the life of me why someone wouldn’t like sex. If you dislike the idea of bodily fluids, being physically close etc surely the feeling elicited by having an orgasm doesn’t repulse you? There are… Positions that eliminate the “closeness” aspect of sexual relations that I could see many autistic individuals having an issue with. Granted they look uncomfortable to pull off…
It’s arguably the best natural sense of euphoria one can elicit without resorting to say… Opium or something.
At this point, I’m not sure.
The best reasons I can give is
Fomo- a lot of my friends have boyfriends and are having a good time. Again, this is a result of my shifting friend group…
My family expects me to get married. Mum and dad have begun to make not so subtle hints. things like pointing out potential wedding venues on walks, offering to let little bro and I bring partners on vacations and getting rooms for us. One time, when I browsing a jewelry story, dad went over to the engagement ring section and asked for the price of a diamond and said “you’ll al least get that”
Not be alone??
However, the more I think about it, the less I feel the need to have a partner. Even though I feel some fomo, especially with the relationship one of my friends has, I realized that I’m not really looking for that, at least now. I HAD what they had with gym buddy and I turned him down because I didnt like it. Since I’ll have a career, I also wouldn’t need someone to support me. “Being rich” isn’t one of my criteria is I begin with. Accomplishment and responsibility are important to me but that doesn’t always translate to great wealth.
As for parents, I think they just want me to be happy and would probably come around to accept my decision not to get married if I didn’t. After all, I convinced them to let me do Russian Studies
The being alone thing is more difficult to judge
Who said you had to be alone? You could live in an apartment complex, if you go to college you could live in a dorm.
People also tend to make friends through work
Never had one.
My friend explained to me what “turned on” and “pleasure” is supposed to feel like. Turns out the only thing that’s managed to turn me on so far has been an Econ paper
It modeled something I’ve been thinking about for a VERY long time and seemed to read my mind
I’m not joking…
That is… Horrible! WHAT…
Then again, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do.
Are you telling me NOTHING gets you going? Shirtless, attractive men? Attractive women? Do sex scenes in movies do anything for you?
Erotic literature, dare I even say pornography… Nothing?
I take antidepressants notorious for crushing libido, yet every now and then I’ll still accidentally come across a scene in a film that starts up that response.
I ask as these aforementioned examples, particularly the latter (pornography) are designed to manipulate the biological response we have prior to engaging in sexual intercourse and/or viewing a partner we perceive as being genetically viable to mate with.
If you haven’t seen pornography before… Don’t
Pornography today is far more extreme relative to what it was back in the day. Modern day triple X content is quite disturbing at times as antisocial conduct involving violence has become the norm. It’s disgusting, I actually can’t bring myself to watch a good 95% of it anymore. I’m trying to phase it all out
However there is an alternative for me… Put on a very explicit movie like “blue is the warmest colour”…
Nope… I find men being shirtless very unappealing
Nope… when I see an attractive woman, I like to imagine her as a Greek statue in a museum
Nope. I get caught up in the lack of realism and in some cases, contemplate the legal implications that might stem from them
Friend showed me porn once (again, bad influence when I diverge from my Econ research group…). It was about as soft as you could get (basically just a sex tape)
It confirmed that I do not want a penis anywhere near me. It did clarify the logistics though
To be clear, I’m not a prude. It’s that I just don’t care. A naked body is just anatomy and body parts should not carry stigma in my opinion
It should be noted orgasm can occur absent of sexual arousal
I respect your outlook here… It just seems so foreign to me.
Here’s an analogy as to what an orgasm feels like according to teen Vogue (trash magazine, but nonetheless)
“It’s similar to your body falling off a cliff into a pile of tingling ecstasy”
This isn’t the only reason as to why adults like having sex, but without the “point of no return” I’d imagine our society wouldn’t be nearly as promiscuous as it is.
The way I see it, orgasm serves as a reward associated with sexual stimulation. Encourages us to reproduce… If we can’t, many resort to self stimulation.
If it didn’t feel amazing, adults wouldn’t paw at themselves in private.
We can agree on this. Nudity within itself isn’t inherently sexual. It’s dependent on the context.
A woman breastfeeding her child? That’s not sexy… Indigenous tribes (depending on the tribe, some are very promiscuous, some aren’t) who don’t wear clothes? Not sexy…
A playboy model spreading her legs? Intended to sexually arouse…
It’s dependent on the context and the culture by which you grow up in. I’ve been to countries where women regularly walk around topless on the beach and no one bats an eye. Society doesn’t explode, and divorce rates are 1000x what they are in the US/countries that don’t allow this. Cultural norms will also dictate whether nudity is inherently sexualised or not.
The way a human body appears when aroused differs relative to baseline, nudity in the context of arousal (i.e an erect penis, erect nipples… And other more graphic detail I won’t get into here) is undoubtedly sexual in nature.
It is anatomy, and nudity isn’t something to be ashamed of. However sex itself isn’t risk free, there are consequences associated with unchecked hedonism. There’s a middle ground. I don’t think we all need to be walking around with our penises/vaginas out, at the same time I don’t think a film (American standards) needs to be 17+ just because it has a few seconds of boobs visible on the screen regardless of the context.
There are films (blue lagoon) of which were rated PG here, but got an R in America due to nudity. I do believe there was a very brief, artistically shot, mild sex scene between a couple… But the nudity was in the context of “these two are shipwrecked on an island and don’t have clothes”. HoW tErRiBlE, tHiNk oF tHe KiDs! This isn’t a film a child or young teenager would be interested in watching to begin with, and there is nothing morally objectionable in the film… Aside from the fact the couple were cousins. Though this was common in the time/place it was set in.
Lost in translation… PG here… 17+ in America… Why? Boobs on the screen for like two seconds! That will irreparably scar a 15 y/old… Though watching heads getting blown off in a PG-13 film is totally fine?
Wasn’t always this way, MPAA in the US became far more puritanical in the early 2000’s. Jaws (1975) was PG yet had nudity, kids smoking pot, blood and gore, bad language and horror themes. It was a totally inappropriate film to take a child to.
The rationale was the parent could choose what was or wasn’t appropriate for a child, hence PG encompassed a wide spectrum. Nowdays it appears parents rely entirely on the rating.
My parents did not give a rats arse about movie ratings lol
But agreed, they’re screwed up.
I do believe “getting married to a rich, old guy who can’t have sex/can only occasionally have sex and waiting until he dies to amass a fortune”
Is a real thing.
I’ve noted women can marry up, but when men do so the marriage has a higher chance of eventuating in divorce.
There are exceptions to the rule… Though it seems as if growing up wealthy tends mediate unrealistic expectations and living standards. If a woman marries into a paradigm wherein these standards cannot be met, they sometimes become resentful and have a higher chance of straying.
Which has me wondering… Why? Why is this the case? Is there any data backing up my anecdotal observations?
Men are supposed to provide, but you’ve willingly married into an environment where the man CANNOT provide the same standard of living your parents were able to provide you. So why complain? You chose to move down a class, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing
Our societal obsession with materialistic possessions is irritating. Why spend 2000$ on a pair of shoes when you can procure a perfectly comfortable pair of shoes for 100$? Half of the time you’re literally just paying for the brand, you can get ample knockoffs that might even look better…
I’ve lived in a big house, I’ve lived in a small apartment and I’ve lived in a tiny dorm so cramped it was hardly bigger than the size of the average bathroom. As long as you’ve got a bed to crash on it doesn’t make that much of a difference.
Neither did mine, they went by what they thought was acceptable for me to watch or not. However when I hit a certain age (13 for PG-13 and when I moved back to Aus 15 for MA15+) I was able to view anything within that allocated bracket as there was nothing they could do to stop it even if they wanted to. I could just go to the nearest store selling DVD’s and purchase anything I was old enough to watch
My father in particular wasn’t particuarly happy about what MA15+ in Aus was allowed to show. Aus is fairly lax when it comes to drug use and antisocial behaviour in films so long as very graphic violence isn’t present, so shows like “skins” and “shameless” that he was terrified of me watching were suddenly on the cards before I was sixteen, whereas in America they would have been off the table for at least another year.
This isn’t to say I didn’t watch movies/TV I wasn’t supposed to, but if/when I was caught out I would be grounded. At one point I had internet blockers set up on my computer. Another example would be wherein my father starter tracking my internet use… just led to me looking for new, inventive ways to get around these measures.
You can disable keylogging software, you can go to Barnes and Nobel and connect to their wifi when you want to watch south park… If there’s a will there’s a way.
Ohh definitely.
It’s not anything I’d want bc it would be HIS money, not mine.
I want a lot of money if and only if I make it myself. Otherwise, it’s not very valuable to me