Here’s what backs up your observations. Women are hypergamous. You don’t need data.
@anna_5588 another serious question, if you don’t mind. Upon getting the three reasons you want to get married, and realizing none of them involve any future rewards and benefits for him, what do you think a man would think of the reasons? We are talking about one of the most important life decisions adult make.
Well I’d like to think I bring value- I’d be a partner, just not a physically intimate one.
I’d not be comfortable going into a relationship where I feel like I’m not contributing
I do though, otherwise my conclusion has no substance as it is only based on anecdote. Anecdote doesn’t trump peer reviewed data, or even a collection of anecdotes. I have no reason to believe I know everything about everything, I’m only twenty years old (like half the average lifespan for those living in Chad!) thus if I come to a conclusion through anecdote I look for data that can substantiate my conclusion.
I’m going by the marriages I’ve known to last vs implode, many of the latter involve a woman marrying a man who does not or did not meet her expectations. Over time, resentment grows, perhaps one (or both) partners stray… On the other hand, sometimes hypogamy occurs. It’s rare, but I have seen it unfold once or twice. A woman who just wants a nice guy to settle down with, she finds a guy and they fall in love… story over…
Also… If the answer is as simple as “hypergamy”… why? Why do women choose but men can’t? I’ve actually noticed with dating. The men make the first advance, the woman can choose to accept the proposition or turn the man down.
At work I have a coworker who is very shy, we have another coworker who is a feminist (third wave… I can’t stand having to listen about all men are terrible..) and is encouraging him to go speak to the girl he likes. The rationale is “it’s easy for me, the worst she can do is reject you. I have a date lined up this Friday because this guy shot his shot and I said yes”.
Here’s the thing, unattractive women can get dates and attractive women can get dates. It’s not hard when all you have to do is wait around and some guy will eventually come up to you at a bar/wherever and proposition you. The guys you say yes to? They’re probably not bad looking and/or they’re better looking than you.
Now picture this, a nervous guy who wants to ask out a girl who is out of his league. Some women can be rather cruel, so can some men. If you are scared of rejection this rejection in particular will bite because you like the girl. It’s MUCH harder to be an average or unattractive male in the dating scene than it is to be an unattractive or average female. Just my observations. This coworker seems to think because she can do it… he can do it, but it’s not remotely similar, not even close.
I’m not talking feminist btw, I’m talking serious third wave feminism stuff like “men have social issues? pffft, no they don’t… what social issues?”
“men are horrible, they suck”.
That kind of bullshit. I naturally start tuning out whenever hear it because it does irritate me.
It appears as if women look for well educated, attractive, rich men who can provide. Men look for young, attractive and fertile women.
To note, I have no problem talking to women or even asking them out if I want to. Years upon years of schoolyard bullying and exclusion has somewhat numbed me out, rejection doesn’t hurt so much when you’ve become accustomed to it. Plenty of men however find this whole dynamic nerve-racking.
I’m not saying women don’t have problems in society, I’m saying both genders have very real issues of which are mediated by being male/female. One needn’t be put on a pedestal over the other, and it appears many entitled college students are almost pandering towards misandry and I cannot for the life of me understand why.
Sometimes it appears to be used as an excuse to veil bad behaviour, or to deflect taking responsibility for misdeeds… Otherwise… I just don’t get it. This is Australia… Not Afghanistan or the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Those countries have SERIOUS womens rights issues…
If you need data for all your observations to reach a conclusion, that’s fine. Many others use simple heuristics to guide their course of action. This has been the case before a study was done. People look around and experience and observe the same thing over and over and over again. This is what leads to what we call common sense (no studies needed). So to avoid trouble, a man of meager means or homely or average looks might not even attempt to start a relationship with a beautiful woman from a rich and powerful family. That’s all from a practical standpoint.
And women are hypergamous because of their biology. It doesn’t take a genius to reason why from a survival standpoint women wanted strong, tall, handsome, and well-resourced men throughout history. They needed to eat and live. So despite nearly everyone in America being kept alive as long as possible no matter what they do, this biological drive is still there. And anyway, if a woman could live a secure, luxurious and high-status life, why would she go lower considering this opportunity? Would you if you had that opportunity?
I would voluntarily choose to live in a tiny hut made of straw.
/s
I don’t always credit myself with enough common sense to be able to reach independent conclusions. I know jack about shit in the grand scheme of things, thus why should my conclusion triumph over those far more educated relative to that of myself? Having data to back up my conclusions always makes me feel more comfortable.
On occasion however I will stray from this rhetoric and make my own conclusions. A good example would be how I came to the conclusion Australia has gone insane over the past two years whereas everyone else appears to think I’m insane because I’m not okay with STILL being unable to travel interstate (WA/QLD) despite being an Australian citizen.
Could I be wrong? Yes… I could be on the wrong side of history here, but I don’t think I am.
Different topic, but I have a bit of a problem with this
Particularly associated with declining birth rates. Societal demographics as based on age are supposed to resemble a pyramid
The young make up the majority, parents/middle aged individuals encompass the middle portion of the pyramid and the elderly make up a minority.
Now we are seeing a shift where the middle aged make up the majority, the elderly make up a smaller portion and the young make up either a smaller portion. It resembles a mutated avocado, not a pyramid
If birth rates continue to decline, we might one day live in a society full of old people… Old people who can’t really work, old people who can’t provide for themselves. The young won’t be able to afford to provide for their families, their parents and grandparents… That’s insane
And it will further fuel a decline in birth rates less we manage to find a way to counteract this dynamic or provide for the elderly through some sort of government assistance… That once again young people need to pay tax for… So back to square one?
My grandma is 96 (going on 97). She’s in great shape for someone that age… But she’s NINETY SIX, of course she has trouble walking, performing many basic tasks (though she can use the bathroom, shower and sometimes cook independently).
Do we really want the median lifespan to hit ninety? I’ll be an arthritic nightmare by then. I already have countless musculoskeletal aberrations in part thanks to my lax connective tissue profile… I don’t want to make it to the point wherein I’ve had a hip replacement, shoulder joint replacement, operations to fix bulging/herniated discs and God knows what else.
70-80 is fine with me. It should be about quality of life (to a degree), not quantity of life. I don’t see the point of living when you can’t even get out of bed, your SO isn’t around anymore, perhaps you’re in a nursing home… It’s depressing…
My outlook is bound to change as I get older as it does for many. But at this point I just don’t see the point of artificially preserving life well past natural set points. One of my distant relatives was almost 100 before she died… She was bedridden at that point… What’s the point?
I’m considered tall in certain third world countries, I can work around it!
I’m not tall either. I’m 5’10”. Tall to me is 6’1” and above.
Women are hypergamous only when they need a provider and have something to trade for the higher income. Women who can meet their own needs are generally content to marry men of similar status. They have no need to achieve a higher-earning male. A two income professional couple are living well. They look for matches they can enjoy in the long term. Someone you’d want to vacation with.
Of course we seek the healthiest mate possible, but here again they tend to be similar to ourselves in terms of fitness (i.e. intelligence, height, socioeconomic status).
This is what the data show.
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I don’t disregard this. All of my friends, cousins, and I matched or almost matched with our wives in status, background, and looks.
This doesn’t mean I disregard hypergamy altogether.
AAAAAAAAAAA! That’s the low end of tall? That’s GIANT! That’s taller than like 90% of the population. I need to start walking on stilts to compete in the dating scene if this is how tall I’m expected to be.
Interestingly, in the Netherlands the average male height is six foot. They’re considered the tallest country in the world. I’ve been there, I was like a dwarf walking around in a society where being 6 foot 3 isn’t considered to be particularly tall. They’re generally quite slim too, very low rate of obesity. Everyone rides bikes over there, they have amazing infrastructure built around cycling and bike rentals, esp in the university towns because the roads are TERRIBLE in the cities
They have these tiny, miniscule micro-cars some of them drive. They’re adorable, but I don’t think they can fit more than one person in then.
Impressing a girl in high school/college because you’ve got a car
Waaait a minute…
Interestingly the women are tall(er) but by no means are they giants, they’re probably around 5’6 on average.
Wow… Amazing… I started off talking about height… Then height in the Netherlands, then cycling and associated infrastructure and finally on to micro-cars
I have a gift…
For everyone complaining about being short, I’m 150cm.
But you’re a girl… And…
150cm? Really? That’s like 4’10
We had a girl I went to school with in America who was by all means quite attractive, but she was around 4’9.
Her proportions were normal, as was her frame despite being tiny. I always wondered whether she was afflicted by some form of dwarfism, but I think it was just idiopathic short stature as both of her parents were quite short too.
I’m on the shorter side because
- unchecked hormone deficiency (whoops)
- likely in part due to premature birth (and associated interventions required to save my life)
But then again, I’m not THAT short. Could have been much worse.
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I honestly don’t mind being short.
The issue is that research suggests ppl who look young for their age, are short and not white are perceived as less competent in the US.
As a short Asian female, I’m somewhat afraid it’s going to make it difficult for me to be taken seriously especially since I plan to work in a relatively male dominated field
I’ve already begun to feel this when interacting with classmates. They tend to treat me like a little sister.
Do you live in the US?
Do you look young? Being short doesn’t necessarily mean you look younger than you are
Show them videos of you performing 30-50 rep sets of pistol squats … The room goes silent…
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Yes
Yes
I’ve addressed the problems of a nation of old geezers.
I’ll only speak of things pertaining to dating and marriage because this is a dating thread.
Another thing to consider is that some families are highly discriminative in who their children marry. I think many people do not take this into account these days and that many parents have indeed become less discriminatory. That is, they permit their children to act on whim with the opposite sex and go with “whoever makes you happy” without ever considering some serious fundamentals.
And what is also glossed over is that one isn’t just marrying and individual, but also joining another family.
Likely the most discriminative are rich families and ethnically- and religiously-conscious families. You’ll be hard pressed to find a hedge fund managers daughter marrying a steam fitter.
The classes have different life experiences, different goals, hobbies, interests, and even manners and dressing. So it’s common sense not to mix this up.
Inb4: “I know a janitor who married a gorillionaire’s daughter.”
I liked the Netherlands because being 6 foot 5 I could look people in the eye. Another thing I liked is that food is protein rich with emphasis on meat and dairy.
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Yeah. I can think of a few women that I’ve been entirely incompatible with.
There’s this wealth affectation that absolutely irritates the living shit out of me, and that is feigning concern by treating other peoples life circumstances as a dalliance or a trendy cause, or to oppose something that is an earned benefit of hard work.
One girl I knew was opposed to the GI bill. She thought is was way too much AND that people shouldn’t be rewarded for “doing stuff like that”.
Like “Why don’t their parents pay for it like mine did…”.
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I don’t think so. If you come across as intelligent, take charge without being arrogant and a team player you will do fine. I have friend that matches your stats with these qualities and she is doing very well at her job and is very respected.