Woke at 82,1 kg - 181 lbs
Eating badly yesterday
Watched the damn France - Denmark soccer match, had to eat and have a few beers to stay awake. Sorry guys my team is really boring to watch.
@muskratlifts and @lava2007 absolutely Iām all in for the break thing and not getting burned out.
However the damn thing is to be run for 9 weeks before the deloadā¦ And I will see how long I can handle it.
There will be some occasional breaks throughout summer, life comes in the way of the program ā So sue me.
Hey Mort,
you might consider dropping the Volume part of the program. Once you hit your top set for the Max Effort, just move on. Donāt do those 3 volume sets. Youāll still get plenty of work in āBigā lifts with the EMOMs and Max Effort lifts. And save a little energy for back raises, split squats, rows and the other exercises that will build muscle where you need it. That way you can stick to the schedule and get the specific benefits of the program that you are after, without getting all run down.
I did consider it, but I want to run it as is the first time. And as Alpha says itās not the assistance work thatās important and to skip it, if the main lift and the emom was enough.
I am certain that itās the volume lift were the money is earnt.
I know Iām a bit worried about how hard this program is, but I like it very much. I think that itās my conditioning thatās lacking a bit, despite I think my condition is quite good.
Conditioning varies. Based on my rest times between sets Iām in pretty decent shape. But I feel pathetically out of shape trying these CrossFit WODs.
Iām with @FlatsFarmer on this. Iām sorry to say Iām extremely sceptical about Darkhorse as a means to progress. As a way to come out of training feeling youāve worked, it looks spot on. As a way to actually achieve some kind of progress beyond conditioning, it looks pretty poor.
I donāt mean to barge in and be negative about the program. I have just seen that everyone who is running the Dark horse agrees that the Volume part is the most difficult.
And other guys running conjugate style programs in the past have had trouble with Volume back-off sets after working up to Max Effort lifts.
No negative take away from me. Just input to consider. Iāve never run a conguate system before and itās a learning experience for me. Keep supplying the info. Iāll keep selecting like a salad bar at a bonanza buffet
I can see your point Mark, but surely for most average lifters, accumulating volume at increasing resistance (weight) is all we really need to progress. Whether it is optimal is another question but there are many different approaches and they all work to some degree.
I agree with the accumulating part, the increased load is probably less important. What I donāt get about Darkhorse are the giant sets. It just looks like something that adds fatigue at the wrong point.
Gotta agree with this. Itās not so bad with upper body, but if Iām trying to pause squat a 3RM, the last thing my body wants to do is go directly into an antagonistic movement + core movement + explosive movement. Not to mention the relatively short rest intervals that he recommendsā¦ I donāt know. Maybe itās because Iām not used to training that way, but for lower body days the giant sets do more harm than good in my opinion.
This reminds me a lot of OG 5/3/1. Hit the top set and then move on. Exert your body to the max with a heavy compound movement, and then go attack the weak points. I think a lot of people grossly overestimate their MEV and MRV which leads to people getting worn down sooner. I think pinpointing our individual MEV/MRVs is an important part of picking what program youāre going to run, or how to create one for yourself. Granted, Alpha does say to only lift 4 times each week, hitting each main compound movement once each week which allows for more complete recovery. But even waiting that long between hitting certain body parts could be considered a flaw depending on your goals
Bottom line is, Brian is a smart guy who has to make money to keep a roof over his head and pay his bills. The market is pretty saturated and people want something new and shiny that makes them feel good quickly, with long term results coming a very distant second in importance. He found that, and heās reaping the benefits by what seems to be something pretty similar to WS4SB. Kudos to him for being a good businessman.
The fact that most successful systems all look and do pretty much the same thing bar some finer details says a lot. One of the common comments I see about why people stopped doing 5/3/1, Cube, etc is they got bored. Not the system didnāt work. They got bored. That says even more.
My only real concernn with Darkhorse is that a bunch of the giant sets, ant/agonist work, etc seem to be asking for trouble in the long run.
But, people like shiny new things that leave you feeling like youāve accomplished something every day.
This is what contributes to making our own adjustment to programs.
Take the Hog he runs it and is buried at times, but have the energy to do assistance and stuff almost if not every time.
He gets the volume done with many extra reps on the amrat volume sets.
Me I get the prescribed reps and fights to get an extra.
I have thought about easing up on the volume sets doing 70% indstead of the 80% prescribed.
I will try to complete the program and write a review of it.
I like the way you do an movement to prime the body prior to the main lift.I feel it actually helps me.
EDIT: I do like it because itās not that far of Jims work and then again it is.
Doing giant sets gives me much much more rest between the main lifts, I know Iām in a bit of a fatigued state by doing the other exercises but I try not to do stuff that has an impact on the main mover.
I have never done variation lifts, to bring up my comp lifts.
So this is a new experience and if Iām adding 40 pounds to my lifts when Iām done, then itās good if it adds nothing, well Iām not disappointed Iāve learnt something.
I think it depends on where you are in your lifting journey. For a lifter who is not near his peak, I doubt a set of rows before bench is not going to rob him of too much. Even if it does effect his max I see it as a other form of regulating the weight just like a TM does in other programs. The program gets you working hard at sub max weights when you are a little fatigued. I would think that gains in strength here would potentially translate to a higher max when you are not fatigued.
Agree with this, most look the same so doing something different makes it interesting.
If by being shiny it gets people motivated and gives people results in either strength, conditioning, speed or any other measurable outcome then itās doing it job to some degree.
Whether it would work as a long term program and how long you can do it before you break is yet to be tested.
This. I recently tried Brianās linear progression (has giant sets + 1 lift per day like Darkhorse). I think the program would definitely have its drawbacks for powerlifting (frequency of bench, squat, deadlift is low, rest periods are super low, etc.). However, it shot my conditioning through the roof. Working out with longer rest periods feels so much better now. I am still doing a lot of supersets and giant sets because I liked how efficient they were in Brianās program. Iām just doing them at a low intensity.
I think one of the areas that get lost on @MarkKO and others about this style of training is it is not a powerlifting program. It is a strongman program. It simulates the competitive environment for strongmen competitors and trains recovery rates while lifting heavy.
No program will ever be perfect, and this one is flawed in some respect, but itās fun and that is why I lift.
Iām not sure that itās flawed. Itās different, but Iāve been watching @MarkKOās training for a while now and I find myself questioning his training from time to time. I donāt question its effectiveness; I question the risk vs reward. It seems like Mark feels like crap more often than not. His body feels worn down when he trains but his sessions still go well. For me, the amount of time spent beat down and grouchy wouldnāt be worth the improvement in performance. Mark is a different kind of beast though and I think the reward outweighs the risk/sacrifice for him.
The biggest component of the training that Iāve seen over and over is that Gregās program beats you into the ground. It causes fatigue and continues to cause fatigue to force the body to respond. Are the giant sets of Darkhorse really so different? I havenāt done either program so I canāt say, but from the outside looking in I can see some similarities in that regard.
Another thing no one has mentioned is the intensity of the giant sets. I donāt think you should beat yourself into the ground on rows, abs, and MB throws when youāre pushing to a 3RM on a bench variation. I think the rowing work is meant to accumulate volume in the antagonist for the sake of symmetry. I also think it plays on autogenic inhibition. When the rowing muscles contract, they can stretch the pressing muscles. The GTO (Golgi tendon organ) can inhibit contraction of the agonist (rowing muscles). If pressing is done immediately following the rowing then the contraction of the antagonist (pressing muscles in this case) can be greater as a result of the autogenic inhibition. A slight stretch in the antagonist (pressing) muscles can also inhibit the GTO response on the subsequent pressing work. If you can inhibit the GTO then you can do a little more and push a little harder.
I got lost in my own head there for a bitā¦ back to the Darkhorse program. I think the non max effort exercises in the giant set are meant to be sub max efforts. I would do them at a lower intensity in the giant set than I would if I did each of them individually. I donāt think it takes away from the program at all. I think itās Brianās way of accumulating volume on the minor things without adding a bunch to the end of his sessions.
Just doing a little bit each day can do a lot for the body compared to neglecting them altogether like I do with my training. By the time I finish my lifting sessions I donāt really want to do any ab work. I also donāt want to increase my training time by adding explosive MB or plyo work to the beginning. I think sacrificing a bit of energy during the ME lifts is a worthy tradeoff considering what youāre getting for it.
I totally agree with @Frank_C in most if not all of his wise words.
I do not go ballistic on the rows or the jumps, itās meant to prime the body, and I think doing rows before bench sort of teaches the body to ārow the bar to chestā on the bench stuff.
Btw woke at 81,6 kg - 179,9 lbs
And forgot to mention an hour of Yoga yesterday.
So here comes Todays training
The Danish Vikings Darkhorse
W3D3: Bench variation 3RM
Warmup: Airdyne, stretches, BPA, yoga stuff
Dynamic warmup:
Metcon 12 minutes 5 rounds:
SGHP x 5 @40, 50, 55, 60, 60 kg,
dip x 3
BPA x 15
kneeling buttom up KB press each arm x 6
airdyne 20 seconds
Complex: 2 rounds
BB x 6, DL, row, hang clean, front squat, strict press, back squat, GM, push press
Main Giant set:
BB row: 10 x 40, 50 kg 5 x 8 @ 60 kg
1 Ā¼ bench 5 x 60, 3 x 67.5, 75 kg, 80 kg Volume
62,5 kg x 9, 8, 6+3 rest pause.
Standing band Pallof Press 7 x 8 each side
farmers walk 2 x 28 kg KB 7 x 30 seconds
OHP emom
10 x 3 @ 40 kg
Assistance Giant set:
Z press 3 x 30, 35, 40 kg
Lat pull down 3 x 5 @ 75 kg
Push up 3 x 15
EZ bar curl 3 x 10 @ 32,5 kg
Done in 1 hour 5 minutes
Well I thought I might be able to do 3 x 85 kg 1 Ā¼ bench but the last rep with 80 was grinding, so stopped it there.
Was a busy day at work with a couple of hours overtime, had a couple of phonecalls (work related) while working out.
Planned for more, but in the end Iāll take it with a smile, wasnāt totally wasted today
By the way Z press feels like a fun variation and I will try that one out for the next 3 weeks. Did 3 x 40 kg after 10 sets emom standing OHP with 40 kg.
