The Christian God: How do you know he's the good guy?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
581

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything.
[/quote]

LOL! What the hell? Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything??? I think you were thinking ‘impotence’ not omnipotence. I wouldn’t say God is impotent by the way…Just sayin’, I wouldn’t.[/quote]
By “anything” I think he means something that would be logically contradictory, or incoherent like God sinning, or him creating a rock so big he couldn’t lift it.

582

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything.
[/quote]

LOL! What the hell? Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything??? I think you were thinking ‘impotence’ not omnipotence. I wouldn’t say God is impotent by the way…Just sayin’, I wouldn’t.[/quote]
By “anything” I think he means something that would be logically contradictory, or incoherent like God sinning, or him creating a rock so big he couldn’t lift it.[/quote]It IS amazing you should have to say this, but of course you are absolutely correct and had you not beaten me to it those were the exact examples I would have given. Good job.

583

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything.
[/quote]

LOL! What the hell? Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything??? I think you were thinking ‘impotence’ not omnipotence. I wouldn’t say God is impotent by the way…Just sayin’, I wouldn’t.[/quote]
By “anything” I think he means something that would be logically contradictory, or incoherent like God sinning, or him creating a rock so big he couldn’t lift it.[/quote]

Omnipotence isn’t doing everything, it’s being able to do anything and everything. He had the chance to sin, he did not.

584

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< Are you saying God is incapable of creating such a system where he has laid down the rules and then allows man to determine his salvation through his own actions?[/quote]HE is saying that. Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything. HE says that too. And here we go round again.
[/quote]

Where has He said this? You haven’t produced any scriptures commanding a belief in the Trinity either so I won’t hold my breath.[/quote]

I do believe the the Trinity is scriptural, but you are right it is not obvious. I am not throwing stones though. I wanna see in scripture where it’s a-ok to condemn huge swaths of people, good people, to hell simply because they don’t believe a flawed man 1500 yeas after the death of Christ. I want that scripture.

585

[quote]pat wrote:<<< I wanna see in scripture where it’s a-ok to condemn huge swaths of people, good people, to hell simply because they don’t believe a flawed man 1500 yeas after the death of Christ. I want that scripture.[/quote]I wanna see where I said this. Once you’re done making some blustering speech that includes everything except a quote from me saying that everybody who disagrees with John Calvin is going to hell, I’ll be back with direct quotes, times and dates included where I emphatically DENIED that. Your turn. I’ll be waiting.

586

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< I wanna see in scripture where it’s a-ok to condemn huge swaths of people, good people, to hell simply because they don’t believe a flawed man 1500 yeas after the death of Christ. I want that scripture.[/quote]I wanna see where I said this. Once you’re done making some blustering speech that includes everything except a quote from me saying that everybody who disagrees with John Calvin is going to hell, I’ll be back with direct quotes, times and dates included where I emphatically DENIED that. Your turn. I’ll be waiting.
[/quote]

Do you or do you not believe that those who do not believe in Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Invincible Ignorance, and Perseverance of Saints is condemned? What if you emphatically deny all of it, would that not be a sign that all who deny all of the above are condemned?
Did you or did you not say that all Mormons are condemned? Did you or did you not say that only by the extreme mercy of God will there be any Catholics in heaven?

I deny TULIP in totality, have you not condemned me for I love my church despite all of it’s faults? I believe in the sanctifying grace for all people, for salvation for all those save for those who by deliberate will, or evil works refuse God’s saving grace. Have I not been determined by Almighty God to burn in eternal hell? Have I not condemned my children and indeed all those who I instruct in the Faith, the Catholic faith, where we teach to love one another, to not condemn, to seek to do good and that salvation isn’t a prize to be won, but is something you earn day and day out, have I not condemned them as well? Indeed I have. God help me I am proud for what I have been able to do and ashamed for how much more I could have done and not done. Let me be anathema for the good I have done, through the faith for the love of God. If that’s what I deserve, so be it.

587

[quote]garcia1970 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Bush is obvious Catholic and a minion of the Pope. I will prove this with a few facts.

George W. Bush was a known member of the Skull and Bones who is a secret fraternal masonic lodge operating for the Elite of Yale University. And everyone knows that the Pope is not only the See of Rome, but ‘the See’ of Free Masons (the whole excommunication thing is just a cover up). George W. Bush and his wife visited the Pope and gave him proper respect (kissing his ring, &c) as well as George’s wife wore a mantilla, a known symbol of submission to the Papacy (or, a style made popular by Mrs. Jack Kennedy).

As well, the most obvious one is that George W. Bush is actually from Connecticut, and being born in the Connecticut makes you more Catholic than if the Pope gave you your first three sacraments.

George W. Bush is obvious a minion of the Pope.[/quote]

Holy shit, you goofy bastard. The Bush family is Methodist. Freakin EVERYBODY knows that.[/quote]

No, that’s what Opus Dei wants you to believe. Haven’t you read Dan Brown, IT’S FACT. I mean he said so in his press conference.

588

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You do not get to tell me what I mean by what I say.
[/quote]

You obviously don’t know what you say. I am not arguing this, this is fact.

What you say about the Catholic Church you say about Catholics themselves, remember that before you speak.

I’ll give you one more example to help you out. If someone speaks about Israel and they say that Israel needs to be destroyed/exterminated or that Israel is the anti-Christ or that they are the sons of the father of lies. Are you going to tell a Jew that you’re not talking about him as well? I think not, neither should you think you’re not talking about a Catholic when speaking of the Church.

Israel did not blow off God’s accusations of Israel being an adulterous wife as saying, “well God is talking about the leaders or something, not me as an individual Israelite.”

589

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< I wanna see in scripture where it’s a-ok to condemn huge swaths of people, good people, to hell simply because they don’t believe a flawed man 1500 yeas after the death of Christ. I want that scripture.[/quote]I wanna see where I said this. Once you’re done making some blustering speech that includes everything except a quote from me saying that everybody who disagrees with John Calvin is going to hell, I’ll be back with direct quotes, times and dates included where I emphatically DENIED that. Your turn. I’ll be waiting.
[/quote]

Do you or do you not believe that those who do not believe in Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of Saints is condemned? >>>[/quote]No, I do not believe that only Calvinists can be saved and have said so many many times, but you would have to be paying attention to have seen it. Show me just one example of what you said I said. One Pat. Come one. I dare ya. I actually do like you man. I do, but this is tough to take. I say plenty of things I fully recognize I will be ruthlessly attacked for. There is no need to manufacture imaginary ones like you do. Please quote me, or anybody else when making an accusation. It will carry a lot more credibility. Chris knows you’re wrong about this and that I’ve never said it, but I’m not going to twist his arm into defending me to you again.

BTW you had that ridiculous anti biblical doctrine of invincible ignorance as the 4th point instead of the throughly scriptural gospel doctrine of irresistible grace. I fixed it for ya =]

590

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< I wanna see in scripture where it’s a-ok to condemn huge swaths of people, good people, to hell simply because they don’t believe a flawed man 1500 yeas after the death of Christ. I want that scripture.[/quote]I wanna see where I said this. Once you’re done making some blustering speech that includes everything except a quote from me saying that everybody who disagrees with John Calvin is going to hell, I’ll be back with direct quotes, times and dates included where I emphatically DENIED that. Your turn. I’ll be waiting.
[/quote]

Do you or do you not believe that those who do not believe in Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of Saints is condemned? >>>[/quote]No, I do not believe that only Calvinists can be saved and have said so many many times, but you would have to be paying attention to have seen it. Show me just one example of what you said I said. One Pat. Come one. I dare ya. I actually do like you man. I do, but this is tough to take. I say plenty of things I fully recognize I will be ruthlessly attacked for. There is no need to manufacture imaginary ones like you do. Please quote me, or anybody else when making an accusation. It will carry a lot more credibility. Chris knows you’re wrong about this and that I’ve never said it, but I’m not going to twist his arm into defending me to you again.

BTW you had that ridiculous anti biblical doctrine of invincible ignorance as the 4th point instead of the throughly scriptural gospel doctrine of irresistible grace. I fixed it for ya =]
[/quote]

Why are you afraid to quote the whole post?..I asked more than one question. Ok, so you do not believe only calvanists are going to heaven…Good, what about the rest?

591

I’ve skimmed the last couple pages of this thread and want to ask:

There are ~30,000 different sects of Christianity. Is the general belief by each sect that all the other sects are being falsely led by the devil?

592

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I’ve skimmed the last couple pages of this thread and want to ask:

There are ~30,000 different sects of Christianity. Is the general belief by each sect that all the other sects are being falsely led by the devil?[/quote]

Not necessarily. The more fundamentalist sects tend to be mutually exclusive, insisting that people must share their particular beliefs to be saved. Other sects believe that as long as people accept Jesus as their Savior, they will be saved regardless of which sect they’re a member of.

593

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< The more fundamentalist sects tend to be mutually exclusive, insisting that people must share their particular beliefs to be saved. >>>[/quote]Do you consider me to be one of these more fundamental types?

594

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< The more fundamentalist sects tend to be mutually exclusive, insisting that people must share their particular beliefs to be saved. >>>[/quote]Do you consider me to be one of these more fundamental types?
[/quote]

I do.

595

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< The more fundamentalist sects tend to be mutually exclusive, insisting that people must share their particular beliefs to be saved. >>>[/quote]Do you consider me to be one of these more fundamental types?
[/quote]

When you categorically condemn entire religions and every soul belonging to them, insisting that only those who view god in the very specific way you view him are saved, and effectively claiming that god himself is the ultimate fundamentalist in rigidly choosing who to save and who to damn, for his own glory, rather than extending his loving offer of grace to all, I must answer yes.

596

[quote]kostresa wrote:

[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
I do not believe for one second and never will, that an all powerful god, infinitely wise (think about that) would care if we belived in him or not. If that was a big deal to him, we can be certain that he is an asshole. People that demand that kind of worship on Earth are called Dictators and we all know what huge ballbags they are. We know it’s wrong. No god worth their salt would demand that babies get baptised, or that people pray at certain times on certain days, wear certain clothes, eat certain food etc.

This being is a god, the creator of time, energy, all life, by definition it created itself perfectly. It would be SOOOOOOO far above that kind of thinking, would they not!? I would hope so. If they were not, would that not pose some rather worrying questions as to what kind of being this is? What kind of mind they have, the reason for creating life in the first place? Religion was an early attempt to understand the world around us. It’s our nature. There are tribes in jungles who have never and hopefully will never hear of ‘our’ religions. Do they stand a chance with god? By some reasoning here and elsewhere, they are hell bound. If not, why not? If so, it it fair? Because they do not know what to worship, are they exempt?

[/quote]

In a sense, you’re somewhat right. In a way God really doesn’t need us to believe in Him. He doesn’t get extra mojo points every time someone believes. He’s perfectly fine without us. If everyone chose to disbelieve, God would still be the same God. He still wouldn’t lose a piece of himself. God by definition isn’t self created. Rather, he’s uncreated. A static being that is outside time, doesn’t change, doesn’t improve because there is no improvement to be made. Anything less and you could name limitations on his being. Change is when we change our position in relation to God.

Sin doesn’t hurt God’s essence, rather he loves what he created and it’s an injustice to see creatures turn to something that isn’t ideal, i.e. not ideal for themselves. If God is the ultimate source of power, bliss, and all things desirable wouldn’t it be a shame if people settle for less?

And that’s what separate’s God from dictators. He doesn’t force humans to love him. Forced love is rape. Rather he let’s people do it on their own accord, which is more rewarding. And for the people who settle for less, he will give them what they really want too. He respects their choice. The Bible never says that those who are in Hell would leave if they could. Some people we see alive today would rather suffer in their own misery rather than enjoy life.

The tribes who don’t hear about God? Well, if he knew they would desire him, he is capable of finding a way. Sometimes those people get visions of missionaries before they come. A loving God would give anyone a chance if he knew they would believe.

And about demanding babies be baptized? I haven’t found any such demands in the bible. Any other commandment serves a purpose, kind of like when (if) your mom told you to eat your vegetables and not just candy.[/quote]
Good post.

597

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

598

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< The more fundamentalist sects tend to be mutually exclusive, insisting that people must share their particular beliefs to be saved. >>>[/quote]Do you consider me to be one of these more fundamental types?
[/quote]

When you categorically condemn entire religions and every soul belonging to them, insisting that only those who view god in the very specific way you view him are saved, and effectively claiming that god himself is the ultimate fundamentalist in rigidly choosing who to save and who to damn, for his own glory, rather than extending his loving offer of grace to all, I must answer yes.[/quote]
From the perspective of other Christians Tirib is not a fundamentalist (even if he wants to be). Fundamentalists would be more characterized by rigid adherence to certain specific ‘fundamentals’ and then just being silent/making no declaration about all else. Something along the lines of: One God, Jesus is His son (and also God), Holy Spirit is also God, Virgin birth, adult baptism by immersion, heaven and hell, etc…

599

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Have I not been determined by Almighty God to burn in eternal hell? >>>[/quote]Ohhh my Lord Jesus give me patience with this man. I am going to try this yet another time for you Pat. Please listen this time. PLEASE? I beg of thee. I have no idea, none whatsoever WHO are the elect are. I DO NOT KNOW where you will end up. Did you hear that? I DO know that what you profess today IS NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ. A self conscious deliberate repentance from sin and true faith in the REAL Jesus alone is THE one and only way to avoid the condemnation that every single last child of Adam is born into.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ANYBODY will end up ahead of time. I DO know that the Word of almighty God is replete with simple descriptions that tell us what believers and unbelievers look like. I don’t judge. God does in His word. I know them by their fruits because out of the abundance of their mouths their hearts SPEAK (Luke 6:45). Fruits ARE NOT charitable works primarily, any reprobate heathen can do them and many do. They are purity of belief, life and conduct in committed conformity to God’s revealed will as commanded by the Lord Himself in His Word.

600

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< Have I not been determined by Almighty God to burn in eternal hell? >>>[/quote]Ohhh my Lord Jesus give me patience with this man. I am going to try this yet another time for you Pat. Please listen this time. PLEASE? I beg of thee. I have no idea, none whatsoever WHO are the elect are. I DO NOT KNOW where you will end up. Did you hear that? I DO know that what you profess today IS NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ. A self conscious deliberate repentance from sin and true faith in the REAL Jesus alone is THE one and only way to avoid the condemnation that every single last child of Adam is born into.

I DO NOT KNOW HOW ANYBODY will end up ahead of time. I DO know that the Word of almighty God is replete with simple descriptions that tell us what believers and unbelievers look like. I don’t judge. God does in His word. I know them by their fruits because out of the abundance of their mouths their hearts SPEAK (Luke 6:45). Fruits ARE NOT charitable works primarily, any reprobate heathen can do them and many do. They are purity of belief, life and conduct in committed conformity to God’s revealed will as commanded by the Lord Himself in His Word.
[/quote]

In other words, you absolve yourself of all your insinuations that Pat and Chris will burn for not following your interpretation of Christianity.

Don’t be such a pussy.