The Christian God: How do you know he's the good guy?

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Come on Chris. And this after I just wrote you nice PM too.[/quote]

Yes, it was nice. However, talking about “Rome” in an insulting manner is no less directly insulting to me. If “Rome” is the anti-Christ, I am the anti-Christ. Whatever Rome is I am, because the Pope is my Holy Father (not mistaken with God the Father) and my Spiritual Leader. He directly affects me. The Vatican directly affects me. So, those long diatribes that you go on about “Rome,” just replace that with Catholics or if you want to make it more personable “BC.” To play like you can insult the Catholic Church and not insult Catholics is disingenuous.

I am anti anything that raises itself against the God of the universe. The Catholic church only figures so prominently because it is so huge and so evil.

Here, I’ll try it out for you: “I am anti anything that raises itself against the God of the universe. Brother Chris only figures so prominently because he is so huge and so evil.”

What’s this noxious blithering about my wanting to eliminate anybody? I have told you and I quite literally meant it that I would risk my own life to save yours. Have I not told you that. How ya gonna now come off with this preposterous nazi-esque wish for extermination.

You have said you hoped that the Catholic Church would be eliminated, or some words to that degree.

Ya hurt me when ya talk with this way ABOUT ME Chris. With regard to personal attitude I do not equate YOU with your monstrous religion any more than I equate muslims with THEIR monstrous religion.

Well, that would be wrong. I am my religion. I make up the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church isn’t some removed organization from me, but I do make up and are part of that Church.

I want them as my brothers and sisters too, but I know you and God has specifically burdened me for you so that inclination is much stronger in your case. I hope you hate homosexuality Chris as does God and as do I, but I love elder forlife and he actually hurt my feelings the other day for real when He deliberately put blasphemous words in my mouth because he matters to me.

I am trying to show you your anti-Catholicism. And, did you just equate Catholicism with an affliction?

You’ve got me all wrong. Some of it is probably because all we know of each other is words on this screen with no facial expressions or voice inflection to help the true nature of what were saying be understood.

No, I am pretty sure you are clear of what you think about the Catholic Church. The thing you think, for some reason I don’t know, is that you can insult someone and something I see as a father and his kingdom and not insult me, as well as insult a body that I belong to.

You can no more make distinctions between the Catholic Church and Catholics, at least no more can you then make distinctions between the French and a Frenchman. The Frenchman makes up the French as the Catholic makes up the Catholic Church.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< George W. Bush is obvious a minion of the Pope.[/quote]Wadda gullible simpleton you are Chris. Don’t take much to pull the wool over yer eyes duzzit? Everybody knows that the pope is a minion of GWB. Sheesh, I’ve been givin you too much credit.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< No, I am pretty sure you are clear of what you think about the Catholic Church. The thing you think, for some reason I don’t know, is that you can insult someone and something I see as a father and his kingdom and not insult me, as well as insult a body that I belong to. >>>[/quote]Then I can’t help how you feel. You people pound on my beliefs mercilessly and I laugh it off. Explain how you hate me then Chris. Or that you love my “religion”. Or do you hate the apostate heresy that I preach yet love me like even your church would tell you to. At least I hope they would. Give your priest and your bishop the address to these forums Chris. Wadda blast that would be.

[Makavali]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

So, what you’re trying to say in your own misguided way is that none of them were actually Christians. Yeah, I know that.[/quote]

No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.[/quote]

And my point, you idiot, what man calls “religion” doesn’t have much to do with real Christianity.

[/quote]

“I disagree with his actions/beliefs, ergo he is not a true Christian!”

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< “I disagree with his actions/beliefs, ergo he is not a true Christian!”[/quote]How bout HE disagrees with the universally understood historical defining Christian doctrines and is therefore not a Christian no matter what he tries to say? My saying that I am an acorn squash doesn’t make me one. We have existing acorn squashes that put the lie to my claim.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Brother Chris wrote:<<< No, I am pretty sure you are clear of what you think about the Catholic Church. The thing you think, for some reason I don’t know, is that you can insult someone and something I see as a father and his kingdom and not insult me, as well as insult a body that I belong to. >>>[/quote]Then I can’t help how you feel. You people pound on my beliefs mercilessly and I laugh it off.

I don’t, the only pounding I do is point out that it is illogical and unreasonable and lacking in faith. I don’t go on how I want to eliminate Calvinist, how they are the Anti-Christ and that I pray for God to destroy them. I pray for your confusion and correction. That is about it.

Explain how you hate me then Chris.

The only thing I hate is the Devil.

Or that you love my “religion”.

I don’t love it, but I don’t hate it. That’s a false Dichotomy. I respect the truth that it has as it shares partial truth with the Catholic faith.

Or do you hate the apostate heresy that I preach yet love me like even your church would tell you to.

Even if I did hate Calvinism, I don’t go around calling it slurs and names. I even semi-corrected someone when they compared Judas to Calvin. And, I corrected your misstatement about Calvin and Servetus.

Even though I do find it to be heresy and disagree with it, I give you a freedom of conscious to believe what you think is truth. I don’t call you whore of Babylon.

So, yes I extend a brotherly love (as we’re all God’s children) towards you and that includes respecting your freedom to believe what is right, believe what you see as you ought to.

[quote]At least I hope they would. Give your priest and your bishop the address to these forums Chris. Wadda blast that would be.
[/quote]

I don’t even think my Bishop has a computer, least not what I saw with my last appointment with him. Either way, both are too busy dealing with their sheep to spend time on the internet. Bishop Olmsted is too busy fighting St. Joseph’s Hospital and other certain troublesome people in my diocese. And, Father is helping raise money for the Orthodox as they have lost their church recently.

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

So, what you’re trying to say in your own misguided way is that none of them were actually Christians. Yeah, I know that.[/quote]

No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.[/quote]

And my point, you idiot, what man calls “religion” doesn’t have much to do with real Christianity.

[/quote]

“I disagree with his actions/beliefs, ergo he is not a true Christian!”[/quote]

Well, the fact that the German Bishops excommunicated all active Nazis in February 1931 kind of gives away the idea that Hitler wasn’t acting very Catholic like.

[Tiribulus]

I don’t want to eliminate Catholics Chris. I want them as my brothers and sisters in Christ, especially you =] I was telling my wife again not 5 minutes ago how much I thought of you. I would however love to see that church destroyed, which I WILL one day see and whether you can accept it or not, to me, the one making these statements? They are in no way the same thing. I am quite saddened that it appears you are not going to get this for now.

I respected your church more when she was burning my brothers alive at the stake while they sang hymns to the most high God as they died. Make no mistake my dear friend. I actually mean that. She at least STOOD for something then. What is all this crap about respecting the partial truth the gospel of the reformation shares with the Catholic faith?

Do you not grasp that you (not you personally, you apparently don’t have the stomach) were murdering people like me in cold blood by the hundreds a few centuries ago for believing EXACTLY what I believe? What happened to that Catholic church? The one I could abhor for her blasphemy, but at least respect for her conviction. Now you’ve taken even that away from me. (I’m reelin that line in again BTW Chris while were on the fishing motif)

[Brother_Chris]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I would however love to see that church destroyed.[/quote]

This is what I read, “I would, however, love to see you destroyed.”

They are in no way the same thing.

Tirib, I AM PART OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. When you say ‘I want the Catholic Church destroyed,’ you are saying you want me destroyed. The Catholic Church is a corporate body made up of the Catholic faithful. You can destroy our buildings, move the Pope to the South Pole, take our land, and burn all our possessions. That doesn’t destroy the Catholic Church, we’re still here.

The Church is not a building, the Church is the members of the Body of Christ. Saying you want it destroyed is the same to a Catholic, at least to me, as saying you want to destroy me. Not understanding that and continuing to say you want me destroyed are two different things. I don’t care if you don’t understand it, stop saying it!

I respected your church more when she was burning my brothers alive at the stake while they sang hymns to the most high God as they died. Make no mistake my dear friend. I actually mean that. She at least STOOD for something then. What is all this crap about respecting the partial truth the gospel of the reformation shares with the Catholic faith?

The burning wasn’t done by the order of the Church, it was done by the Monarchs who knew that heresy threatened their kingly authority. And, Tirib…you should know that you can’t reform the truth of the Gospel.

Do you not grasp that you (not you personally, you apparently don’t have the stomach) were murdering people like me in cold blood by the hundreds a few centuries ago for believing EXACTLY what I believe?

You do realize that in order to get burned you had to know that you were denying the truth, not just not believe the truth (as I believe you do)? You do know that the Inquisition was set up by the clergy, so that the State would stop killing so many people (which wasn’t very much though). You do realise that the Inquisition was routinely put into danger for being to soft on the heretics by the people of the country?

[quote]What happened to that Catholic church?[/quote] Nothing happened, we still have the office of Inquisition, we just don’t have any Monarchs killing heretics right now. Once they decide to start killing the heretics again, I am sure the clergy will start up the Office of Inquisition full steam ahead again.

The one I could abhor for her blasphemy, but at least respect for her conviction.

I’ll not fully explain it again, but look at history, the State is the one that killed the heretics. The Office of the Inquisition was set up to make sure that the people they killed were in fact heretics.

Now you’ve taken even that away from me. (I’m reelin that line in again BTW Chris while were on the fishing motif)

I don’t know what that means. I am sure you’ll explain later.

[ZEB]

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

So, what you’re trying to say in your own misguided way is that none of them were actually Christians. Yeah, I know that.[/quote]

No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.[/quote]

And my point, you idiot, what man calls “religion” doesn’t have much to do with real Christianity.

[/quote]

“I disagree with his actions/beliefs, ergo he is not a true Christian!”[/quote]

No, more like some religions of the world happen to produce more mass murderers than others. And it seems that most are in fact atheists, or agnostic. And finally, there were far less evil mass murderers who called themselves Christians.

Sorry you couldn’t follow that very simple point from the beginning. Now we both know you’re a smart guy right? So do you think you not being able to grasp this has more to do with hatred clouding your view point than anything else?

[super_saiyan]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Also, it is a plain contradiction to say you believe man ultimately determines his own fate AND you believe in the sovereignty of God. If God REALLY wants somebody in heaven and they go to hell, that person’s will is more sovereign than God’s. No sir, all that the Father gives Him WILL come and of those He will lose none, but will raise them up on the last day.
[/quote]

What a silly statement. It’s not a contradiction if God has given us the chance to determine our own fate. It does not make our will more sovereign than God’s if He has set it up that way. This is His plan and His rules and we are operating under those rules.[/quote]In other words He’s made the administration and dispensation of His Judgment and mercy contingent upon man’s will?
[/quote]

Are you saying God is incapable of creating such a system where he has laid down the rules and then allows man to determine his salvation through his own actions?

[garcia1970]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Brother Chris wrote:<<< Yeah, we know Catholics are bad people. That is why I tell you all that we’re dangerous and to watch out. Don’t push us! We are cannibals, mass murders, dictators, crusaders, inquisitors, and every thing else under the sun. We raise the dead, we do works, and we’ll pray for our enemies’s confusion and destruction. From eating humans to Desert Storm, every evil from miscarriage babies to grandma’s dying of cancer it is our doing and if you have a problem, too bad because our God is the biggest meanie and bully this side of primeval atom the world has seen. >>>[/quote]Ridiculous Chris. Are you trying to steal George W. Bush’s glory now too? =]

Bush is obvious Catholic and a minion of the Pope. I will prove this with a few facts.

George W. Bush was a known member of the Skull and Bones who is a secret fraternal masonic lodge operating for the Elite of Yale University. And everyone knows that the Pope is not only the See of Rome, but ‘the See’ of Free Masons (the whole excommunication thing is just a cover up). George W. Bush and his wife visited the Pope and gave him proper respect (kissing his ring, &c) as well as George’s wife wore a mantilla, a known symbol of submission to the Papacy (or, a style made popular by Mrs. Jack Kennedy).

As well, the most obvious one is that George W. Bush is actually from Connecticut, and being born in the Connecticut makes you more Catholic than if the Pope gave you your first three sacraments.

George W. Bush is obvious a minion of the Pope.[/quote]

Holy shit, you goofy bastard. The Bush family is Methodist. Freakin EVERYBODY knows that.

[Makavali]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

So, what you’re trying to say in your own misguided way is that none of them were actually Christians. Yeah, I know that.[/quote]

No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.[/quote]

And my point, you idiot, what man calls “religion” doesn’t have much to do with real Christianity.

[/quote]

“I disagree with his actions/beliefs, ergo he is not a true Christian!”[/quote]

No, more like some religions of the world happen to produce more mass murderers than others. And it seems that most are in fact atheists, or agnostic. And finally, there were far less evil mass murderers who called themselves Christians.

Sorry you couldn’t follow that very simple point from the beginning. Now we both know you’re a smart guy right? So do you think you not being able to grasp this has more to do with hatred clouding your view point than anything else?[/quote]

The majority of the people you listed followed a religion of some sort. Try again.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< Are you saying God is incapable of creating such a system where he has laid down the rules and then allows man to determine his salvation through his own actions?[/quote]HE is saying that. Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything. HE says that too. And here we go round again.

[Tiribulus]

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< you are saying you want me destroyed. >>>[/quote]You do not get to tell me what I mean by what I say. I mean what I say I mean. You can tell me how you take it, which if different than I say I mean makes me very sincerely sorry, but is not my fault. There is not one single Catholic person I wish destruction upon including the pope himself. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< the State is the one that killed the heretics. The Office of the Inquisition was set up to make sure that the people they killed were in fact heretics. >>>[/quote]So killing heretics under the guidance of the church is ok then?

[pat]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I don’t want to eliminate Catholics Chris. I want them as my brothers and sisters in Christ, especially you =] [/quote]

The only preventing that is you. Maybe if you quit spitting hatred and falsehoods about the Faith and accept us as is. There is no reason we cannot celebrate the Lord together save for your bigotry towards us. We reject it and will continue to do so.

You think we are wrong and from satan, we can and have leveled the same accusations against you and the faith you practice, but what does that bring us really? We can do it all day and everyday and continue to get no where.
Has it succeeded, HELL No. Will it ever? No. If I were to lose my Catholic faith it would be in trade for no faith; would you really want that?

If you want to discuss faith, I am happy to discuss… If you want to just preach and tell us we’re wrong, you can shove that.

Read Romans Chapter 14…

[forlife]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< Are you saying God is incapable of creating such a system where he has laid down the rules and then allows man to determine his salvation through his own actions?[/quote]HE is saying that. Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything. HE says that too. And here we go round again.
[/quote]

If omnipotence is not the ability to do anything, stop claiming that giving men the choice to accept or reject Christ somehow robs god of his omnipotence.

[forlife]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.[/quote]Ya really need to get those pants pulled back up one day Mak. People DO attach evil to Christianity specifically all the time and then when asked for examples fumble around pulling a few nutcases outta their hat that every Christian on earth denounces. That’s number one. Number two, grouping all religions together like that is sophomoric and disingenuous on one level and plain dishonest on another. There’s plenty of religions I firmly believe are evil satanic lies, in fact religion is the devil’s greatest tool. However most of those do not promote violence or theocratic conquest by force. I would never say “religion” is violent and therefore it’s fair for me to simply lump them all together. That would be a lie see and the truth is not served by lies. You do that because it’s the only way you can justify calling Christianity violent in that devious wittow mind o yors. Come on jist admit it. Everybody sees you baby steppin with those pants around yer ankles anyway.
[/quote]

If you don’t like being grouped together with other religions, and being categorically condemned, stop grouping together all gays, and categorically condemning us as dishonest, unfaithful, hedonistic pariahs on society.

[super_saiyan]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< Are you saying God is incapable of creating such a system where he has laid down the rules and then allows man to determine his salvation through his own actions?[/quote]HE is saying that. Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything. HE says that too. And here we go round again.
[/quote]

Where has He said this? You haven’t produced any scriptures commanding a belief in the Trinity either so I won’t hold my breath.

[pat]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Yes, there are plenty of things that God is incapable of. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything.
[/quote]

LOL! What the hell? Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything??? I think you were thinking ‘impotence’ not omnipotence. I wouldn’t say God is impotent by the way…Just sayin’, I wouldn’t.