The Christian God: How do you know he's the good guy?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Keep tryin Chris[/quote]
Keep trying what? Showing that your religion is heretical, illogical, without reason, and deficient in faith? Don’t worry, it’s not hard and pretty easy.
I will be away for a few days fishing, I’ll leave this gem here by an orthodoxy teacher talking on ecumenism.[/quote] This is GREAT!!! Forgetting that this guy found an entirely incompetent, flaming antinomian heretic of a libertine Luthran whose view on sola fide Luther himself denounced (as do I), typical strawman arrogance as we’ve seen one million times right here in this forum. Praise the name of Jesus I couldn’t agree more that TRUE Catholics and TRUE protestants CANNOT be in fellowship with one another… period. I do not want to get along with Rome. I will fight her in the full armor of God with everything I am while there is breath in my lungs. Makes me love Catholic people even more.

Please God let Pat hear this man. I wonder what he would say about Pat’s faaaaar theological unitarian leftism wherein “love transcends all religions”? Yer gittin there Chris. My respectometer is twitchin upward. Yer growin up. Out with it man. The vatican does not want to join hands with me. She wants to absorb me. I will have none of it. Git yer filthy claws off my soul. I haven’t seen the second one yet, but if it’s half as good as the first one I’ll be a subscriber to the “vortex”. He is saying from your side, what I’ve been saying from mine forever here.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<<< As if god doesn’t have the power to extend his saving grave to all.
[/quote]Extending His saving grace to all would have defeated a large component of the purpose of His decreeing sin AND creating at all for that matter. The angels, the demons, all the hosts of heaven and the elect themselves would never appreciate the awesome magnitude of His grace if they were not witnesses to the permanent and unthinkable terror of His wrath.

Listen closely now for the 10,000th time. One drop of the precious blood of the spotless Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world is sufficient to save trillions of earths populated with sinners. The Father COULD HAVE SAVED EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY IN THE UNIVERSE TEN TIMES OVER ON THE PAYMENT MADE BY HIS SON. Did ya hear that now? HE CHOSE BY THE EXERCISE OF HIS OWN UTTERLY NON CONTINGENT FREE WILL, THE ONLY BEING WHO HAS ONE, TO SAVE SOME WHEN ALL COULD HAVE BEEN JUSTLY DAMNED. OHHH HALLELUJAH TO THE MERCIFUL GRACIOUS LORD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!. I have bible study now. Be back later. I did not skip anybody on purpose.
[/quote]

What makes you think people wouldn’t appreciate the awesome magnitude of god’s grace if they were damned due to rejecting him, as opposed to being damned due to god making them that way?

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Are you saying that God committed moral evil so he could show his wrath? >>>[/quote]God is incapable of evil because He’s God Chris. HE decides what’s evil. Not Aquinas. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< And, I guess Calvin thought he was a direct extension of God’s wrath when it came to Servetus?[/quote] WE HAVE A WINNER BOYS N GIRLS!!! Oh how looooong I’ve been waiting for this one. I even mentioned in a post early last year how there was an apparent prime weapon against Calvin sitting there in front of everybody. This was it. Go ahead n study some more Chris before I comment. If you really want to get into who was burning who at the stake LOL! Articles Archives - Banner of Truth USA
[/quote]

I have a problem with this “might makes right” model of morality. Just because someone has power doesn’t make them objectively good. If Hitler were to pull a fast one and become omnipotent, would that magically make him good?

The quality that makes god good is his benevolence, not his omnipotence. And the selective benevolence of your puppeteer god isn’t true benevolence at all. Damning billions of souls to suffer eternally regardless of their choice, solely for the purpose of self-glorification, is evil, not good.

544

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It means I think the mass is an abhorrent act of Satanic worship. [/quote]
Why? (serious question)

[quote]
I wish I could say it nicer. Protestants once almost universally understood this and went to their deaths in flames for declaring it, among other truths.[/quote]
Why do you wish you could say it nicer? (rhetorical, but answer if you like)

I never said that man ultimately determines his own fate. God chooses, but God gives man choice.

[quote]
AND you believe in the sovereignty of God. If God REALLY wants somebody in heaven and they go to hell, that person’s will is more sovereign than God’s. [/quote]
Only by allowance. If God allows someone to make a decision how has He lost sovreignty? He has not lost it, but instead exercised it to its absolute fullest in the expression of love for His creature. He has exercised meekness, restraint from using power.

This does not imply that the Father doesn’t choose those who actively also choose Him. Not denying that God moves in us first though.

545

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
God is incapable of evil because He’s God Chris. HE decides what’s evil.[/quote]

Can God command someone to break one of the Ten Commandments?

And, I know who is burning who at the stake.

Although, I suppose it is admirable that Calvin interceded to have some of his victims beheaded instead of burnt at the stake. http://www.freewill-predestination.com/unchanged.html

I don’t much care that Calvin did what he did, the fact is that Calvinist make a claim that the man that gave them the interpretation didn’t follow. Calvin wanted to be ‘Pope’ he wanted his own Rome, he fiend power. He was disobedient to his Mother, the Church. Moreover, he kept up what his Mother, the Catholic Church, did.

From his actions is seems not as if he thought the Catholic Church was wrong, but Calvin wished that his will be followed instead. Disobedience of the highest order, schism and heresy. There maybe those who are disobedient in the Church, but the Church doesn’t rest on those individuals. Calvin was disobedient, yet Calvinist rest upon Calvin. Big difference.

Damn, I didn’t know about this. Pushing to behead people that don’t share your view of the Trinity? What a prick. Course, the Catholic church had his blood on their hands as well.

Don’t you love religion?

546

Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

547

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Also, it is a plain contradiction to say you believe man ultimately determines his own fate AND you believe in the sovereignty of God. If God REALLY wants somebody in heaven and they go to hell, that person’s will is more sovereign than God’s. No sir, all that the Father gives Him WILL come and of those He will lose none, but will raise them up on the last day.
[/quote]

What a silly statement. It’s not a contradiction if God has given us the chance to determine our own fate. It does not make our will more sovereign than God’s if He has set it up that way. This is His plan and His rules and we are operating under those rules.

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[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Also, it is a plain contradiction to say you believe man ultimately determines his own fate AND you believe in the sovereignty of God. If God REALLY wants somebody in heaven and they go to hell, that person’s will is more sovereign than God’s. No sir, all that the Father gives Him WILL come and of those He will lose none, but will raise them up on the last day.
[/quote]

What a silly statement. It’s not a contradiction if God has given us the chance to determine our own fate. It does not make our will more sovereign than God’s if He has set it up that way. This is His plan and His rules and we are operating under those rules.[/quote]

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[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I do not want to get along with Rome.[/quote]

Then, you don’t want to get along with me.

551

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Also, it is a plain contradiction to say you believe man ultimately determines his own fate AND you believe in the sovereignty of God. If God REALLY wants somebody in heaven and they go to hell, that person’s will is more sovereign than God’s. No sir, all that the Father gives Him WILL come and of those He will lose none, but will raise them up on the last day.
[/quote]

What a silly statement. It’s not a contradiction if God has given us the chance to determine our own fate. It does not make our will more sovereign than God’s if He has set it up that way. This is His plan and His rules and we are operating under those rules.[/quote]In other words He’s made the administration and dispensation of His Judgment and mercy contingent upon man’s will?

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[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It means I think the mass is an abhorrent act of Satanic worship. [/quote]
Why? (serious question)[/quote]

Because Tirib is Anti-Catholic, last acceptable prejudice. A friend called it the intellectual’s antisemitism.

He doesn’t want to hear us, he wants to eliminate us. As much as a Nazi wants to hear Jews.

553

Come on Chris. And this after I just wrote you nice PM too. I am anti anything that raises itself against the God of the universe. The Catholic church only figures so prominently because it is so huge and so evil. What’s this noxious blithering about my wanting to eliminate anybody? I have told you and I quite literally meant it that I would risk my own life to save yours. Have I not told you that. How ya gonna now come off with this preposterous nazi-esque wish for extermination.

Ya hurt me when ya talk with this way ABOUT ME Chris. With regard to personal attitude I do not equate YOU with your monstrous religion any more than I equate muslims with THEIR monstrous religion. I want them as my brothers and sisters too, but I know you and God has specifically burdened me for you so that inclination is much stronger in your case. I hope you hate homosexuality Chris as does God and as do I, but I love elder forlife and he actually hurt my feelings the other day for real when He deliberately put blasphemous words in my mouth because he matters to me

You’ve got me all wrong. Some of it is probably because all we know of each other is words on this screen with no facial expressions or voice inflection to help the true nature of what were saying be understood.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

Yeah, we know Catholics are bad people. That is why I tell you all that we’re dangerous and to watch out. Don’t push us! We are cannibals, mass murders, dictators, crusaders, inquisitors, and every thing else under the sun. We raise the dead, we do works, and we’ll pray for our enemies’s confusion and destruction. From eating humans to Desert Storm, every evil from miscarriage babies to grandma’s dying of cancer it is our doing and if you have a problem, too bad because our God is the biggest meanie and bully this side of primeval atom the world has seen.

Now, that we got that out of way. Where those people Catholics? Yeah, sure, the Catholic Church takes all people, the only requirement for baptism is that you have two arms and two legs and are at least a sinner.

However, blaming what those people did on Catholicism is like blaming all the lives killed by small pox on the vaccination. The vaccination didn’t kill those people, not taking the vaccination killed those people. Want to see what Catholicism does?

Look up the lives of these people:
St. Maximilian Kolbe
St. Damien
St. Therese of Lisieux
Bl. John Paul the Great

Was Hitler a good, faithful, and obedient Catholic, does a dog have gills and fins?

Was Hitler influenced by something else besides Catholicism? Yeah. Did Catholic authorities protest the Nazi Party?

The Pope couldn’t have grabbed Hitler and Nazi leadership and brought them to trial. However, German Bishops ex-communicated all active Nazis in February 1931. Yet because of the Marxists, the Germans abandoned their moderate position and raced to the Nazis during the 1931 Reichstag election anyway.

Anyway, I have fish to fry, literally.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

So, what you’re trying to say in your own misguided way is that none of them were actually Christians. Yeah, I know that.

557

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

So, what you’re trying to say in your own misguided way is that none of them were actually Christians. Yeah, I know that.[/quote]

No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:<<< No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.[/quote]Ya really need to get those pants pulled back up one day Mak. People DO attach evil to Christianity specifically all the time and then when asked for examples fumble around pulling a few nutcases outta their hat that every Christian on earth denounces. That’s number one. Number two, grouping all religions together like that is sophomoric and disingenuous on one level and plain dishonest on another. There’s plenty of religions I firmly believe are evil satanic lies, in fact religion is the devil’s greatest tool. However most of those do not promote violence or theocratic conquest by force. I would never say “religion” is violent and therefore it’s fair for me to simply lump them all together. That would be a lie see and the truth is not served by lies. You do that because it’s the only way you can justify calling Christianity violent in that devious wittow mind o yors. Come on jist admit it. Everybody sees you baby steppin with those pants around yer ankles anyway.

559

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Don’t you love people who try to attach killing to Christianity?

The worst butchers in history were non Christian:

Idi Amin, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Doc Duvalier, Saddam Hussein, Somoza, Shaka Zulu, Herod, Pol Pot, Mugabe.

Not one of them were Christian.

[/quote]

Are you still trying to play this card?

It’s not Christianity in particular, it’s religion. Get over yourself.

Idi Amin - Muslim.
Hitler - Catholic, evolving into his own crazy religion.
Doc Duvalier - Roman Catholic, Voodoo, claimed he was “one with the loas, Jesus Christ, and God himself”.
Saddam Hussein - Muslim.
Shaka Zulu - Zulu.
Herod - Arguably Jewish, most likely a pragmatist, following whatever suited him politically.
Pol Pot - Theravada Buddhist.
Mugabe - Roman Catholic.[/quote]

So, what you’re trying to say in your own misguided way is that none of them were actually Christians. Yeah, I know that.[/quote]

No you idiot, what I’m pointing out is that despite your hubris, it’s not people attaching evil to Christianity specifically, it’s attaching it to religion.[/quote]

And my point, you idiot, what man calls “religion” doesn’t have much to do with real Christianity.

560

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Bush is obvious Catholic and a minion of the Pope. I will prove this with a few facts.

George W. Bush was a known member of the Skull and Bones who is a secret fraternal masonic lodge operating for the Elite of Yale University. And everyone knows that the Pope is not only the See of Rome, but ‘the See’ of Free Masons (the whole excommunication thing is just a cover up). George W. Bush and his wife visited the Pope and gave him proper respect (kissing his ring, &c) as well as George’s wife wore a mantilla, a known symbol of submission to the Papacy (or, a style made popular by Mrs. Jack Kennedy).

As well, the most obvious one is that George W. Bush is actually from Connecticut, and being born in the Connecticut makes you more Catholic than if the Pope gave you your first three sacraments.

George W. Bush is obvious a minion of the Pope.