[quote]pat wrote:<<< Truth is discovered, not developed. That which is true, is always true and always has been.[/quote]I could not possibly agree more Pat, but I think Chris is going to come back that he also agrees and that it is our understanding of truth that “develops”. Being Catholic he will no doubt also say that revelation itself also develops or is still progressing, or something along those lines. On that I couldn’t DISagree more.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:<<< Truth is discovered, not developed. That which is true, is always true and always has been.[/quote]I could not possibly agree more Pat, but I think Chris is going to come back that he also agrees and that it is our understanding of truth that “develops”. Being Catholic he will no doubt also say that revelation itself also develops or is still progressing, or something along those lines. On that I couldn’t DISagree more.
[/quote]
Clarification please: What do you DISagree with? Do you think God has stopped giving revelations? Or is it your belief that revelations happen, but they don’t develop or progress our understanding of the truth?
I just read some of the stuff Trib has posted on some other threads. Wow. And you say Mormons aren’t Christian. LOL.
And why are you calling us to repentance Trib if you believe that God will choose who He wants and damn who He wants? Aren’t you attempting to thwart the will of God by calling everyone to repentance knowing that not all of us are the “elect?”
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Actually their mortal enemy is the Catholic Church, they will never beat us so they’ll never actually be our enemy, just an annoyance in carrying out G-d’s plan of salvation of the world >>>[/quote]I confess I don’t know about this. Why would Freemasons, which I am somewhat familiar with, be especially antagonistic to your Church?
[/quote]
Good question, I always figured it had to do with the fact that Monarchs get their authority from the Church and FMs have pretty much been pitted against Monarchs. But, I am not an expert on Freemasons, I just know that through the years (with my own eyes and historically) they have gone against the Catholic Church, Monarchs, and any authority of the current government.
Down in Latin America, their lodges have been linked with socialism/Marxism and liberation theology movements a lot.
Basically Marxism dressed up as theology trying not to look like heresy.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LOL! It’s a good thing you guys weren’t around for the first constitutional convention LOL! Guys like me were all over the place. Which explains everything we see today.[/quote]
You mean deists and masons? I am not fond of Masons, kind of like mortal enemies.[/quote]Mortal enemies of who?
[/quote]
Actually their mortal enemy is the Catholic Church, they will never beat us so they’ll never actually be our enemy, just an annoyance in carrying out G-d’s plan of salvation of the world.[/quote]
In all the points that matter to them they already have beaten you.
[/quote]
What spreading Liberation Theology?
I don’t see how we’re beaten, I am sure that like Africa it will leave what it has taken for granted, and once again will embrace its mother.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
LOL! It’s a good thing you guys weren’t around for the first constitutional convention LOL! Guys like me were all over the place. Which explains everything we see today.[/quote]
You mean deists and masons? I am not fond of Masons, kind of like mortal enemies.[/quote]Mortal enemies of who?
[/quote]
Actually their mortal enemy is the Catholic Church, they will never beat us so they’ll never actually be our enemy, just an annoyance in carrying out G-d’s plan of salvation of the world.[/quote]
They are not a mortal enemy in that they don’t seek our destruction. The society is merely incompatible with Catholicism, not the same as mortal enemies. It’t that the requirements to be a Freemason put you in opposition to church teachings. Further, it is our opinion that Freemasonry membership requires a loyalty to itself over and above all things. That being said we live at peace with one another these days. But Catholics who join freemason’s are not to receive communion.[/quote]
Okay, I can agree with this in America. Though when I did go down to Latin Am., I found it to be much different. There was hostility.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
BC I agree yet the understandings we have evolve as we develop a better understanding of the Bible. At least for me personally. Do you agree? [/quote]
No, truth develops, it does not change or evolve.
Yes, many do not get the entirety of the Bible. I suggest you read a document called Dei Verbum.[/quote]
Truth is discovered, not developed. That which is true, is always true and always has been.[/quote]
Truth is developed, it is not changed.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Christian.[/quote]
All I can say for certain is that to be Christian you have to have a valid baptism.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
My ignorance shows because I may have used the wrong adjective. My apologies because yours in fact fit perfectly, of course jaa jaa jaa And not to get really nit-picky and technical, yet my understanding of evolve and develop are synonymous. You cannot have develop without evolving. Or vice verse. Just a small portion of our discussion.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
BC I agree yet the understandings we have evolve as we develop a better understanding of the Bible. At least for me personally. Do you agree? [/quote]
No, truth develops, it does not change or evolve. [/quote]
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
I do NOT have unbelief about anything related to the Catholic faith. I do have complete faith, I just question things before I go forth spreading an interpretation I think I have. I want to understand the Bible. Not recite the Bible line for line, but understand the CONTEXT. Many others fail in that regard, at least IMHO :o ] [/quote]
I will read this as soon as I return home to my printer ; )
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Yes, many do not get the entirety of the Bible. I suggest you read a document called Dei Verbum.[/quote]
[/quote]
I might be using the incorrect word, but when I mean by develop is that distinctions are made. Such as the basic truth that G-d is a triune God. Then someone says, okay there is three gods, and doctrine develops when which the Church declares that God is not three gods, but actually one God and that there is three persons in one God. Then someone says that they are three persons in one God, but the Father and the Son are of difference substance, and doctrine develops by making the Church making distinctions that God is not three persons of different substance, but they are consubstantial (this term makes me excited come Advent!) to each other.
That is in fact how doctrine develops, but does not evolve. It is not developed in that truth is truth and will always be truth, but that doctrine is developed as we enter into our fuller understanding of the truth. Whoever disagrees with that, I cannot help them as they are irrational.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Christian.[/quote]
All I can say for certain is that to be Christian you have to have a valid baptism.[/quote]YEAH!!!
Worship whatever god or gods you want, but H2O on the forehead? Dat’s da bomb. Have no fear anyway because you don’t have to be a Christian to be saved. Just do the best you can. God’s a hip n groovy dood. He understands.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Christian.[/quote]
All I can say for certain is that to be Christian you have to have a valid baptism.[/quote]YEAH!!!
Worship whatever god or gods you want, but H2O on the forehead? Dat’s the da bomb. Have no fear anyway because you don’t have to be a Christian to be saved. Just do the best you can. God’s a hip n groovy dood. He understands.
[/quote]
Their god is more Christian by far than the narcissistic, selectively tyrannical puppetmaster god you worship.
[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Their god is more Christian by far than the narcissistic, selectively tyrannical puppetmaster god you worship.[/quote]Good morning Elder Forlife. So wonderful to see you all chipper n ready to face another day with a firm reliance on the divine providence of the one and only triumphant conquering king of all the earth whose lovingkindness is from everlasting to everlasting.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< I just read some of the stuff Trib has posted on some other threads. Wow. And you say Mormons aren’t Christian. LOL. >>>[/quote]According to the Word of almighty God yes, I say mormons are tragically deceived worshipers of false gods and a false christ. Repent, forsake your idols, turn to the one true and living God and His Christ and live. [quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< And why are you calling us to repentance Trib if you believe that God will choose who He wants and damn who He wants? Aren’t you attempting to thwart the will of God by calling everyone to repentance knowing that not all of us are the “elect?”[/quote]I have been over this… let’s see… 1, 2, 3 … one billion times. If you’re really interested look around some more. I may do it one more time later tonight, just for you, because regardless of what you may think about guys like me, I really do care about guys like you. Like most serious mormons I’ve met you seem a decent likable man. You weigh heavily on me. I don’t handle it well every single time. I assure you I mean you no ill.
[quote]TallBaldDave wrote:<<< Clarification please: What do you DISagree with? Do you think God has stopped giving revelations? Or is it your belief that revelations happen, but they don’t develop or progress our understanding of the truth? [/quote]An honest question to which I will give you an honest answer. “Revelation”, being defined as God’s direct communication man-ward wherein HE reveals truth about Himself and His creation which alone and in it’s entirety governs and dictates the relations between us? Given that definition? There has not been additional revelation since John put his pen down in the last decade of the first century.
I do not have time to elucidate further at the moment.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Their god is more Christian by far than the narcissistic, selectively tyrannical puppetmaster god you worship.[/quote]Good morning Elder Forlife. So wonderful to see you all chipper n ready to face another day with a firm reliance on the divine providence of the one and only triumphant conquering king of all the earth whose lovingkindness is from everlasting to everlasting.
[/quote]
Yeah…kinda sucks that the real god is Catholic though, don’t it? Never mind, I’m sure you’ll be fine as long as you confess the real Jesus and are properly baptized by a priest.
In the final analysis Elder Forlife nothing ultimately sucks because because the all powerful, all wise, all holy, all just, loving, gracious and merciful God has unchangeably decreed whatsoever comes to pass and I have His promise of eternal divine bliss in His glorious presence. It would have been more than enough to simply have been declared exonerated of my many crimes against His spotless throne. That alone would have been grace immeasurable, but far beyond bare forgiveness, He has adopted me into His family, given me His very life and calls me brother, bride and son.
What right do have to complain about ANYTHING? What right do I have to deny love to ANYONE? What right do I have to deny forgiveness to anyone who does me wrong?
1st Corinthians 4— (accurate ellipsis mine to diagram my point)
My dear Elder Forlife. Having you, assorted other vituperative unbelievers, variously flavored Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and post modern emergent liberals all in agreement about nothing whatsoever except my being absolutely wrong honors me far beyond my worth by affirming that I am in His Spirit honoring HIM. If I were not being thus attacked by such people I would be on my face at His feet beseeching Him that He deliver me from whatever carnality and error has made me a friend of and conformist to the world. Then again, it’s pretty tough to biblically imagine a person who knows to ask God that, but doesn’t already know the answer in the first place.
My God reigns Elder Forlife. He reigns absolutely and He reigns absolutely everywhere. He has provided you with the very intellect and logical framework it operates in that you have turned against Him and you will pay with your eternal life unless you surrender for real this time and this time surrender to the real God. You WILL bow that knee and so will I. That will be a most joyous day for me. If you only knew how I pray that it will be for you too.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I really do care about guys like you.
[/quote]
Why? Why in the world would you possibly care when there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. According to your religion, I can’t repent on my own, and you can’t convince me of the truth. If I’m not one of the elect I’m pretty much screwed, right? So why in the world would you possibly waste your energy on me if there is nothing you or I can do about being saved?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Christian.[/quote]
All I can say for certain is that to be Christian you have to have a valid baptism.[/quote]YEAH!!!
Worship whatever god or gods you want, but H2O on the forehead? Dat’s da bomb. Have no fear anyway because you don’t have to be a Christian to be saved. Just do the best you can. God’s a hip n groovy dood. He understands.
[/quote]
Or you can worship and love God and he condemns you anyway, because that makes a ton of sense.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< I just read some of the stuff Trib has posted on some other threads. Wow. And you say Mormons aren’t Christian. LOL. >>>[/quote]According to the Word of almighty God yes, I say mormons are tragically deceived worshipers of false gods and a false christ. Repent, forsake your idols, turn to the one true and living God and His Christ and live. [quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< And why are you calling us to repentance Trib if you believe that God will choose who He wants and damn who He wants? Aren’t you attempting to thwart the will of God by calling everyone to repentance knowing that not all of us are the “elect?”[/quote]I have been over this… let’s see… 1, 2, 3 … one billion times. If you’re really interested look around some more. I may do it one more time later tonight, just for you, because regardless of what you may think about guys like me, I really do care about guys like you. Like most serious mormons I’ve met you seem a decent likable man. You weigh heavily on me. I don’t handle it well every single time. I assure you I mean you no ill.
[quote]TallBaldDave wrote:<<< Clarification please: What do you DISagree with? Do you think God has stopped giving revelations? Or is it your belief that revelations happen, but they don’t develop or progress our understanding of the truth? [/quote]An honest question to which I will give you an honest answer. “Revelation”, being defined as God’s direct communication man-ward wherein HE reveals truth about Himself and His creation which alone and in it’s entirety governs and dictates the relations between us? Given that definition? There has not been additional revelation since John put his pen down in the last decade of the first century.
I do not have time to elucidate further at the moment.
[/quote]
Just based on behaviour alone, you appear to be the deceived one here. Making bold, false proclamations about your fellow man is not what you are called to do. How can you defend the bible by defying it? Are you sure you’ve read it, or are you just going by what somebody told you?
The Mormon’s make their claims, through no basis what so ever, you call them liars and them them that what they worship is different than what they worship?? Yeah, sign me up on that sinking ship.
YOU not anybody else has made bold proclamations on the fate of Mormon’s past and present. The only being who has knowledge of saved vs. not saved is God himself. To claim knowledge that only God himself has knowledge of is BLASPHEMY…Which you have shown to all. It means nothing to the atheists, but to us Christian’s, it’s a big deal.
I really hope you wake the hell up one day. You’re “theology” is a dead-end and I want NO part of it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:<<< Their god is more Christian by far than the narcissistic, selectively tyrannical puppetmaster god you worship.[/quote]Good morning Elder Forlife. So wonderful to see you all chipper n ready to face another day with a firm reliance on the divine providence of the one and only triumphant conquering king of all the earth whose lovingkindness is from everlasting to everlasting.
[/quote]
On the elect only right? God is to small to handle everyone, right? You’re ideas about God are horrifically false and NOT biblical.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I really do care about guys like you.
[/quote]
Why? Why in the world would you possibly care when there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. According to your religion, I can’t repent on my own, and you can’t convince me of the truth. If I’m not one of the elect I’m pretty much screwed, right? So why in the world would you possibly waste your energy on me if there is nothing you or I can do about being saved?[/quote]
Pointing out glaring error’s in this modus will only result in great ‘cut and paste’ swaths of scripture that disprove his very point.
I do hope he wakes up and ‘shakes the dust from his feet’ of these evil ideas about the almighty, merciful and loving God of ALL MEN. God mourns when he is rejected, he does not decide for you and then revel in your destruction.
If we go to hell for our faith and love of God, tirib will be with us.