The Christian God: How do you know he's the good guy?

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It makes me wonder if you know God at all??[/quote]Where in the scriptures does it say that Greg in Detroit AKA Tiribulus might not know God?
[/quote]

I didn’t make claims about scripture. I am basing this on your judgement, condemnations, and your poor treatments of your fellow man. You are sowing seed of hatred and malcontent, and it is not your place to do so.

I stand united with my Mormon brethren not in terms of agreement, but as people who know and love Christ. Christ does not refuse those who love him. [/quote]And your basing any and all of this on what exactly? I’m jist askin.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I prefer us not being at each others throats Pat, but if it walks and talks like a unitarian…

There are no passages in God’s word mentioning Mormons, but it is everywhere proclaimed that those with the wrong god or gods remain under His wrath until they forsake their idols and serve the one true and living God. That is so clear and pervasive in the Christian scriptures that I can only challenge you again to just randomly open them somewhere and there is a high likelihood of finding this unbending divine jealously. [/quote]

I tell you that I worship Jesus Christ as the Savior of all mankind through His infinite, atoning sacrifice. You tell me I worship the wrong Jesus. Who is this other Jesus you are talking about?

I worship the Jesus Christ who is the Only Begotten, born on earth to the Virgin Mary. He lived a perfect life. He cast out devils, worked miracles, and laid down His life to redeem all mankind in accordance with the will of the Father. I worship the Jesus who was resurrected and lives today, and whose light extends to all the earth informing man’s conscience.

So who is this other Jesus? As far as I know there has been only one who matches the above description.[/quote]

Apparently, tirib has been deified beyond normal humans. He knows your faith better than you do. He’s checked the books for heaven and you ain’t on it.
I am losing respect for tirib by the minute. What a pitiful sad human being he must be.[/quote]

Thanks Pat. I understand that others do not believe LDS doctrine, but I take serious issue with anyone who disputes my faith in Jesus Christ as my Savior.[/quote]

And that’s my problem SS. I don’t agree with the tenets of the LDS, but that doesn’t matter in the end. This isn’t a members only club for those who followed the ‘rules’. There are two types of people, those who love Christ and those who do not. It is the love for our God that transcends all religions or rules. It pisses me off when people who claim to know God, hand down blanket condemnations on other people as if they know your heart as well as God does.
It’s arrogant, ignorant, and I will not put up with it. It’s a fools paradise.
[/quote]

I disagree with many Mormon beliefs, just as I disagree with particular beliefs from other religions. However, as a former Mormon for more than three decades, I know a little about what they believe, and I daresay I know more even than Tiribulus with his months of missionary conversations.

Mormons are Christians, period. They love, worship, and embrace Christ as their Savior. They sincerely try to follow his teachings and example. They know that without the grace of his atoning love, all would be damned, no matter how well they lived, since all fall short of the glory of god. Through him, they are born again and made new creatures. It was his crucifixion and resurrection that made it possible for all to be resurrected, and live with god again.

Just another example of Tiribulus being off base.

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It is the love for our God that transcends all religions or rules. >>>[/quote]Show me this in the scriptures and I will leave this site and you will never hear from me again.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It is the love for our God that transcends all religions or rules. >>>[/quote]Show me this in the scriptures and I will leave this site and you will never hear from me again.
[/quote]

You can’t call out others when you consistently fail to prove your point of view from the scriptures.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It is the love for our God that transcends all religions or rules. >>>[/quote]Show me this in the scriptures and I will leave this site and you will never hear from me again.
[/quote]

You can’t call out others when you consistently fail to prove your point of view from the scriptures.
[/quote]You are immune to biblical evidence. You are a false worshiper of a false Jesus for whom all the angels in heaven could not provide testimony enough to free you. I have buried Pat in scriptural evidence in posts you can find yourself if you look. Some took more than a day to put together and it’s like shooting spitballs at an aircraft carrier. The first commandment is to have no other Gods. The whole of the bible from Genesis to Revelation is positively exploding with God’s horrific judgment on those who do not worship HIM alone in spirit and TRUTH. Here I have an ultra liberal Catholic, whose own church wouldn’t recognize what he’s saying, a practicing Christ denying homosexual and a Mormon with 3 gods in his idolatrous godhead, on the same forum page, all joining forces against lil ol me. The glory is all yours Lord.

Thank you Jesus.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It makes me wonder if you know God at all??[/quote]Where in the scriptures does it say that Greg in Detroit AKA Tiribulus might not know God?
[/quote]

I didn’t make claims about scripture. I am basing this on your judgement, condemnations, and your poor treatments of your fellow man. You are sowing seed of hatred and malcontent, and it is not your place to do so.

I stand united with my Mormon brethren not in terms of agreement, but as people who know and love Christ. Christ does not refuse those who love him. [/quote]And your basing any and all of this on what exactly? I’m jist askin.
[/quote]

You treatment and dealings with Mormon people.

[quote]forlife wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You’re gonna be heartbroken Chris when you find out that it’s your arrogant church that has the private interpretations. Oh wait, you already said “I will always take the side of the Church of man’s private interpretation.” Looky there, the Spirit is working on you in spite that exalted free will of yours. I hope you don’t always take that side though Chris. I am at the Lord’s feet on your behalf and no matter what else is goin on in your life, you can count on that. I’m on God’s side before I’m even on your side… [/quote]

It was a spelling mistake and I corrected it before you posted, even left a note that I did.

It would seem that the Catholic Church is arrogant because we have firm belief (and it is in fact a truth) that we have a monopoly on truth when it comes faith and morals. That is why people detest the Church, from ethical relativist to your average christian 16 year old girl that wouldn’t know the difference between the statements ‘Jesus human nature died on the cross’ and ‘G-d died when Jesus was crucified.’

I have dealt with both, and even though it is a lame duck when it comes to a litmus test by itself, it is nevertheless a litmus test that when basically the whole world hates you, that your obviously doing something right. That’s why R. Kelly spoke my motto, “Haters gonna hate,” he spoke more of a truth than he knew.

The miracles, and the martyrs, and the deepness, and the creeds, and the wholeness of the Catholic Church speaks too much to ignore. Either it’s all a shame or the Catholic Church is the faith, and the true faith at that without a doubt.

I do not say this to be triumphant, because without the grace of G-d, I would have done none of what I have done in my life. I can see the hand of G-d directing me towards him, I can see that when I fell into sin his crucible to push me to purity. To end up here and to continue to be driven deeper into the Catholic faith, that speaks volumes, because if anyone could prove one doctrine of the Catholic faith wrong…they would have no doubt that I would leave the Catholic Church at once and go worship at their church.

That is a life long vow that I have taken, given to anyone, at any time. All it takes is one doctrine, even the most simplest and most undeveloped doctrine of the Catholic Church. One doctrine wrong of the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church is a shame, the Bride that I hold dear will never see my eyes lay on her again.

I have no doubt that my entire life will never see that day, I could go on a crusade and visit every heretic, schismatic, atheist, intellectual, and peasant and never find a single person to prove a single doctrine wrong. [/quote]

The human capacity for confirmatory bias is boundless. You can see this easily in other faiths, for example the Mormon capacity to rationalize the Book of Abraham being proven a fraud when the Rosetta Stone was discovered and we learned how to translate Egyptian. But by its very nature, you are blind to the influence of confirmatory bias on your own beliefs.

No doubt, you believe that you are 100% objective, and that not a single Catholic doctrine has been proven wrong. So do Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Calvanists. They’re equally convinced that they are objective, and you are the one being misled.[/quote]

Just because a lot of people are wrong doesn’t mean everyone is wrong.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It is the love for our God that transcends all religions or rules. >>>[/quote]Show me this in the scriptures and I will leave this site and you will never hear from me again.
[/quote]

You can’t call out others when you consistently fail to prove your point of view from the scriptures.
[/quote]You are immune to biblical evidence. You are a false worshiper of a false Jesus for whom all the angels in heaven could not provide testimony enough to free you. I have buried Pat in scriptural evidence in posts you can find yourself if you look. Some took more than a day to put together and it’s like shooting spitballs at an aircraft carrier. The first commandment is to have no other Gods. The whole of the bible from Genesis to Revelation is positively exploding with God’s horrific judgment on those who do not worship HIM alone in spirit and TRUTH. Here I have an ultra liberal Catholic, whose own church wouldn’t recognize what he’s saying, a practicing Christ denying homosexual and a Mormon with 3 gods in his idolatrous godhead, on the same forum page, all joining forces against lil ol me. The glory is all yours Lord.

Thank you Jesus.
[/quote]

Don’t forget the Calvanist cultist with a puppetmaster god who cackles gleefully at the damnation of his unworthy creations, caring only about his self-glorification.

Crow all you want, but that ain’t Christ.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It is the love for our God that transcends all religions or rules. >>>[/quote]Show me this in the scriptures and I will leave this site and you will never hear from me again.
[/quote]

Luke 11:42
1 Cor 2:9
Eph 3:18-19
Col 2:2
James 1:12
1 John 4:7
1 John 5:2

To name a few…

[quote]forlife wrote:<< who cackles gleefully at the damnation of his unworthy creations, caring only about his self-glorification. >>>[/quote]To you too. Show just one of my over 11,000 posts here where I said anything like this and I will leave on the spot. You will never have to hear from me again. It’s the devil who stands day and night accusing the brethren. Back up your accusation elder forlife. I dare ya ta try.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It makes me wonder if you know God at all??[/quote]Where in the scriptures does it say that Greg in Detroit AKA Tiribulus might not know God?
[/quote]

Isaiah 55:8-9

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It is the love for our God that transcends all religions or rules. >>>[/quote]Show me this in the scriptures and I will leave this site and you will never hear from me again.
[/quote]

You can’t call out others when you consistently fail to prove your point of view from the scriptures.
[/quote]You are immune to biblical evidence. You are a false worshiper of a false Jesus for whom all the angels in heaven could not provide testimony enough to free you. I have buried Pat in scriptural evidence in posts you can find yourself if you look. Some took more than a day to put together and it’s like shooting spitballs at an aircraft carrier. The first commandment is to have no other Gods. The whole of the bible from Genesis to Revelation is positively exploding with God’s horrific judgment on those who do not worship HIM alone in spirit and TRUTH. Here I have an ultra liberal Catholic, whose own church wouldn’t recognize what he’s saying, a practicing Christ denying homosexual and a Mormon with 3 gods in his idolatrous godhead, on the same forum page, all joining forces against lil ol me. The glory is all yours Lord.

Thank you Jesus.
[/quote]

You’ve buried me in red herrings and strawmen, avoidance of difficult questions and general BS. Do not call me names and do not condescend to anybody else, you do not have the right.

I have demonstated in great detail why TULIP is a great folly backed up with scripture, you run and hide from the truth.
You are a coward tirib. You condemnations are bullshit.

All I want to know is where does the Bible come from. <— ninth time I have asked this, I might have to start my own thread.

[quote]pat wrote: <<>>[/quote]See your priest Pat, (did I really just say that?) Show Him our conversations here. Even he might be able to help you make at least a little progress in your understand of holy writ. You can’t be serious with this. Come on man. Here lemme try the Pat method of scriptural exegesis, exposition and interpretation. Go see 1st Chronicles 1:1-42 for proof positive that Richard Simmons is the antichrist.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It makes me wonder if you know God at all??[/quote]Where in the scriptures does it say that Greg in Detroit AKA Tiribulus might not know God?
[/quote]Isaiah 55:8-9[/quote]Ohhh Christopher I expected much more form YOU than this.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forlife wrote:<< who cackles gleefully at the damnation of his unworthy creations, caring only about his self-glorification. >>>[/quote]To you too. Show just one of my over 11,000 posts here where I said anything like this and I will leave on the spot. You will never have to hear from me again. It’s the devil who stands day and night accusing the brethren. Back up your accusation elder forlife. I dare ya ta try.
[/quote]

“cackles gleefully” is poetic license, but any god that pre-determines which of his children will be damned to an eternity of pain, is NOT a loving god. And is not the God of the Bible.

Tiribulus wrote:
Any faith that ascibes to man a will free enough to ultimately determine his own life and destiny has a god whose governance of his creation is contingent upon the decisions and providence of men. They are vulnerable to every legitimate attack of unbelievers as they are living in their intellectually autonomous house.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< If it’s that simple, then show me. Quit dancing around and show me where the Bible teaches the trinity.[/quote]I was talking about the singularity of God. There is but ONE only true and living. Not even God could have made anything clearer to us insolent rebellious creatures of His. However, here is today’s 5 minute study. Please friend, please let Him speak to you.
<< Deuteronomy 6:4 >>[quote]Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one![/quote]
<<< John 1:1 and then v.14 >>>[quote]1-In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. <<<>>> 14-And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.[/quote]
<<< Matthew 12:31 >>>[quote]Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.[/quote]Three clearly distinct persons to whom deity is ascribed while the existence one, UNO, one more than zero and one less than two, ONE God is flatly proclaimed as existing at all. Like I say, that is an EXTREMELY abbreviated biblical statement of the triune nature of the Godhead which brings me back ONCE MORE.

See folks, this is what you get with these wonderful people. Please, will you share with me a lowly man? Please? Pretty Please with sugar on top? HOW MANY GODS ARE IN THE GODHEAD? That’s not yelling. That’s emphasis. I am asking you a simple question the honest answer to which, if we ever get one, will demonstrate clearly that while you are probably a great guy, faithful family man and fine American as the serious Mormons I’ve met always are, the god and jesus you are talking about have nothing to do with good news of salvation as understood by the Christian church universal from the 12th of Genesis on and especially since the first century. Please, I’m groveling here.[/quote]

I have already answered your question before. The Godhead consists of Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Each is a separate divine being. They are one in purpose in that each works to accomplish the will of the Father. In the LDS Church, when we say “God”, it almost always refers to Heavenly Father. When we speak of Christ we refer to him as Jesus Christ, the Son, Savior, Redeemer, Lord, etc. When we speak of the Holy Ghost we use that term or the Holy Spirit, the Spirit, etc.

The scriptures you quoted do absolutely nothing to prove the trinity. Explain to me John 17:20-21.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

He prayed for the saints to be one just as He and the Father are one. Obviously it’s impossible for all of the saints to physically be one being. But they can be of one heart and mind; or in other words, one in purpose.

Explain Matthew 27:46

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

If they are the same person, how could God forsake Himself or withdraw from Himself?[/quote]

Since we all know Tirib admits to 3 divine PERSONS, I think SS meant to say:

If they are the same BEING, how could God forsake Himself or withdraw from Himself?

(an easy mistake to make since most people think of PERSON and BEING as synonyms)

But anyway:

Tiribulus - Admit it, there are points in scripture on both sides of this argument. I.e. it is open to interpretation. If God had felt that it important enough to clarify - he would have made sure it was clear. It isn’t clear because there is no statement on the triune nature of the Godhead in the Bible. You are piecing together bits of scripture that aren’t in the same context, and calling it proof. If this bit of doctrine was so important, that misunderstanding it would damn those who are sincerely trying to follow Jesus - then He would have made it clear. He didn’t, so it must not matter that much. Maybe he meant us to concentrate on what he actually told us to do: Love God, Love your neighbour, Be humble, Forgive, Repent, Preach Repentance, follow the commandments, etc.

Nowhere in the list is there an admonition to overanalyze the scriptures and put things together to come up with stuff it doesn’t actually say.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< It makes me wonder if you know God at all??[/quote]Where in the scriptures does it say that Greg in Detroit AKA Tiribulus might not know God?
[/quote]Isaiah 55:8-9[/quote]Ohhh Christopher I expected much more form YOU than this.
[/quote]

What that I don’t agree with you trying to judge someone of things that are above you? Judge lest ye be judged is what this is talking about, judging about things that you don’t know of.

[quote]TallBaldDave wrote:
he would have made sure it was clear.[/quote]

He did, the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, but Tirib is all about the Bible Alone.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
All I want to know is where does the Bible come from. <— ninth time I have asked this, I might have to start my own thread.[/quote]

Maybe you should disappears in a puff of smoke