The Christian God: How do you know he's the good guy?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
God will never speak in contradiction to His revealed Word. So no. God has not told them that. BTW, God didn’t pull up a chair and TELL me what I believe either. I have shoulders tri’s and delts now.[/quote]

Well, that’s sad, because although Jesus didn’t pull up a chair he did say, “And I say to thee: That thou art Kepha; and upon this Kepha I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” And, so it was.[/quote]Ya come back and yer pickin a fight with me already Chris?
[/quote]

Didn’t know telling the truth could do such a thing, Tirib. :wink:

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:<<< How the hell do you know God can’t or won’t save Mormons? >>>[/quote]Because God CANNOT lie and what He has already said in His word declares the gods and jesus… and everything else in Mormonism to be false and if there was only one thing we know about this God of scripture it’s that He will not suffer the worshipers of other gods to live. Just declare yourself a unitarian Pat and throw your bible away already. I’m not being mean or even sarcastic, but really. You can pick up a bible and randomly close your eyes and open it anywhere with about an 85% chance of finding some form of what I just said. Is there anybody who has a false god to you? ANYBODY? I mean if the fantasy fiction of mormonism doesn’t qualify with you is there anything that does?
[/quote]

Don’t tell me what I am or what to do, you don’t have the authority or the right.
Your the one spreading falsehoods around here and your lying about my God and I don’t appreciate it. Don’t tell me you know God’s mind and heart, you do not; further he professedly condemns such blanket statements. You think like man, not God. You do NOT have the right, period.
The Mormon’s themselves already told you they worship the Lord, you’re the one falsely accusing them of doing otherwise.

Show me the verse(s) that condemns Mormon’s to hell. I want specifics.

As long as hold fast to your hatred, there will always be a deep chasm between us.

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I prefer us not being at each others throats Pat, but if it walks and talks like a unitarian…

There are no passages in God’s word mentioning Mormons, but it is everywhere proclaimed that those with the wrong god or gods remain under His wrath until they forsake their idols and serve the one true and living God. That is so clear and pervasive in the Christian scriptures that I can only challenge you again to just randomly open them somewhere and there is a high likelihood of finding this unbending divine jealously.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I prefer us not being at each others throats Pat, but if it walks and talks like a unitarian…

There are no passages in God’s word mentioning Mormons, but it is everywhere proclaimed that those with the wrong god or gods remain under His wrath until they forsake their idols and serve the one true and living God. That is so clear and pervasive in the Christian scriptures that I can only challenge you again to just randomly open them somewhere and there is a high likelihood of finding this unbending divine jealously. [/quote]

I tell you that I worship Jesus Christ as the Savior of all mankind through His infinite, atoning sacrifice. You tell me I worship the wrong Jesus. Who is this other Jesus you are talking about?

I worship the Jesus Christ who is the Only Begotten, born on earth to the Virgin Mary. He lived a perfect life. He cast out devils, worked miracles, and laid down His life to redeem all mankind in accordance with the will of the Father. I worship the Jesus who was resurrected and lives today, and whose light extends to all the earth informing man’s conscience.

So who is this other Jesus? As far as I know there has been only one who matches the above description.

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[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< So who is this other Jesus? >>>[/quote]The one who is NOT in tri-unity of substance co equal in majesty,power and eternity and one in being with the Father and the Holy Spirit, but a separate god altogether. The Jesus who is but one in an eternal progression of gods. The one who is NOT the first and the last, the alpha and the omega, the living Word by whom ALL things were made that were made… period (not just for our planet, dimension or universe). You really don’t get it man. I studied cults til I could recite their history and doctrine in my sleep and most of the big ones use the same tactic. Bury people in orthodox chritianese terminology with totally heretical meanings. Repent my friend. Do it today. Tomorrow is not promised to you.

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What Tirib doesn’t realize is that Mormons have a hierarchy just like the Catholics do. The only way to convert them is by gun point, find one that doesn’t actually believe, or disprove their history. Possible with Mormons, not with Catholics.

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What Chris doesn’t understand is [quote] 5-What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6-I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7-So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.[/quote]1st Corinthians 3:5-7 The only way to convert a Mormon or anybody else is to obey God by preaching Christ and Him crucified. God does the converting.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What Chris doesn’t understand is [quote] 5-What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6-I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7-So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.[/quote]1st Corinthians 3:5-7 The only way to convert a Mormon or anybody else is to obey God by preaching Christ and Him crucified. God does the converting.[/quote]

Except we have free will.

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[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What Chris doesn’t understand is [quote] 5-What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6-I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7-So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.[/quote]1st Corinthians 3:5-7 The only way to convert a Mormon or anybody else is to obey God by preaching Christ and Him crucified. God does the converting.[/quote]
Except we have free will. [/quote]Yeah, forget what the Word of God says, Thomas Aquinas told me that stuff is all well n good, EXCEPT, we have free will and no matter WHAT, my will cannot take second place even to God’s. Romans9:16 ESV [quote]<<< So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. >>>[/quote]Hheeeyyyy, that’s just what Paul told the Corinthian church as well. Yeah but waddid he know? It’s not like he was somebody important like Aristotle. There’s a whole thread about this already Chris. I trust that Cortes will be back.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What Chris doesn’t understand is [quote] 5-What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6-I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7-So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.[/quote]1st Corinthians 3:5-7 The only way to convert a Mormon or anybody else is to obey God by preaching Christ and Him crucified. God does the converting.[/quote]
Except we have free will. [/quote]Yeah, forget what the Word of God says, Thomas Aquinas told me that stuff is all well n good, EXCEPT, we have free will and no matter WHAT, my will cannot take second place even to God’s.[/quote]

How about you replace the word ‘Aquinas’ with ‘the Bride of Christ, the Church’ and you’ll have it almost right. We have free will to conform our will to G-d’s, but we still have free will.

I don’t need an entire thread, it is very simple either I listen to the Church, or man’s private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20, “Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.”

I will always take the side of the Church over man’s private interpretation. You’d do good to do the same.

EDIT: Spelling mistake ‘of’ changed to ‘over’.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What Chris doesn’t understand is [quote] 5-What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6-I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7-So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.[/quote]1st Corinthians 3:5-7 The only way to convert a Mormon or anybody else is to obey God by preaching Christ and Him crucified. God does the converting.[/quote]
Except we have free will. [/quote]Yeah, forget what the Word of God says, Thomas Aquinas told me that stuff is all well n good, EXCEPT, we have free will and no matter WHAT, my will cannot take second place even to God’s. Romans9:16 ESV [quote]<<< So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. >>>[/quote]Hheeeyyyy, that’s just what Paul told the Corinthian church as well. Yeah but waddid he know? It’s not like he was somebody important like Aristotle. There’s a whole thread about this already Chris. I trust that Cortes will be back.
[/quote]

I’ve never left. I just think that you and I (and most Catholics, for that matter) are going to disagree upon the interpretation of Romans 9, among other passages. Neither I nor my church see it as any kind of stumbling block to the existence of the self-determination of man. Indeed, I would say that the entirety of scripture as a whole screams out that each must individually choose to accept or reject Christ.

I don’t see why it has to be one way, either. God’s grace is necessary before anything else, but his grace is not the same as his choosing for us. Nor does his omnipotence or omniscience preclude his choosing what to “know” and what not to (ie our wills, the choices we will make, etc.). As you site Aristotle, Aquinas and Thomas so often, I know you know exactly what I am talking about here.

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Tirib will continue to rely on his private interpretation and Catholics will rely on the Bride of Christ and the Magisterium that Christ instituted.

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You’re gonna be heartbroken Chris when you find out that it’s your arrogant church that has the private interpretations. Oh wait, you already said “I will always take the side of the Church of man’s private interpretation.” Looky there, the Spirit is working on you in spite that exalted free will of yours. I hope you don’t always take that side though Chris. I am at the Lord’s feet on your behalf and no matter what else is goin on in your life, you can count on that. I’m on God’s side before I’m even on your side…

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< So who is this other Jesus? >>>[/quote]The one who is NOT in tri-unity of substance co equal in majesty,power and eternity and one in being with the Father and the Holy Spirit, but a separate god altogether. The Jesus who is but one in an eternal progression of gods. The one who is NOT the first and the last, the alpha and the omega, the living Word by whom ALL things were made that were made… period (not just for our planet, dimension or universe). You really don’t get it man. I studied cults til I could recite their history and doctrine in my sleep and most of the big ones use the same tactic. Bury people in orthodox chritianese terminology with totally heretical meanings. Repent my friend. Do it today. Tomorrow is not promised to you.
[/quote]

You continue to misrepresent LDS doctrine. Do you even read my posts? I keep asking you to show me where the Trinity is taught in the Bible. You keep ignoring it because you can’t do it.

You are the one who doesn’t get it. I proclaim my faith in Jesus Christ and you somehow think you are in a position to tell me it’s invalid. You try to judge me as if you are God. Maybe you are the one who needs to repent.

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[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< You continue to misrepresent LDS doctrine. Do you even read my posts? I keep asking you to show me where the Trinity is taught in the Bible. You keep ignoring it because you can’t do it.

You are the one who doesn’t get it. I proclaim my faith in Jesus Christ and you somehow think you are in a position to tell me it’s invalid. You try to judge me as if you are God. Maybe you are the one who needs to repent. [/quote]I will take the testimony of your own churches historical leaders and official historical documents as well as the simple reporting of events over some guy on an internet forum telling me that all that was wrong and he is right.

Answer this question please and I’ll try not to waste any more of either of our time. How many gods are in the godhead. AH AH AH, just a number please and yes it IS just that simple according to the bible.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< You continue to misrepresent LDS doctrine. Do you even read my posts? I keep asking you to show me where the Trinity is taught in the Bible. You keep ignoring it because you can’t do it.

You are the one who doesn’t get it. I proclaim my faith in Jesus Christ and you somehow think you are in a position to tell me it’s invalid. You try to judge me as if you are God. Maybe you are the one who needs to repent. [/quote]I will take the testimony of your own churches historical leaders and official historical documents as well as the simple reporting of events over some guy on an internet forum telling me that all that was wrong and he is right.

Answer this question please and I’ll try not to waste any more of either of our time. How many gods are in the godhead. AH AH AH, just a number please and yes it IS just that simple according to the bible.
[/quote]

If it’s that simple, then show me. Quit dancing around and show me where the Bible teaches the trinity.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
You’re gonna be heartbroken Chris when you find out that it’s your arrogant church that has the private interpretations. Oh wait, you already said “I will always take the side of the Church of man’s private interpretation.” Looky there, the Spirit is working on you in spite that exalted free will of yours. I hope you don’t always take that side though Chris. I am at the Lord’s feet on your behalf and no matter what else is goin on in your life, you can count on that. I’m on God’s side before I’m even on your side… [/quote]

It was a spelling mistake and I corrected it before you posted, even left a note that I did.

It would seem that the Catholic Church is arrogant because we have firm belief (and it is in fact a truth) that we have a monopoly on truth when it comes faith and morals. That is why people detest the Church, from ethical relativist to your average christian 16 year old girl that wouldn’t know the difference between the statements ‘Jesus human nature died on the cross’ and ‘G-d died when Jesus was crucified.’

I have dealt with both, and even though it is a lame duck when it comes to a litmus test by itself, it is nevertheless a litmus test that when basically the whole world hates you, that your obviously doing something right. That’s why R. Kelly spoke my motto, “Haters gonna hate,” he spoke more of a truth than he knew.

The miracles, and the martyrs, and the deepness, and the creeds, and the wholeness of the Catholic Church speaks too much to ignore. Either it’s all a shame or the Catholic Church is the faith, and the true faith at that without a doubt.

I do not say this to be triumphant, because without the grace of G-d, I would have done none of what I have done in my life. I can see the hand of G-d directing me towards him, I can see that when I fell into sin his crucible to push me to purity. To end up here and to continue to be driven deeper into the Catholic faith, that speaks volumes, because if anyone could prove one doctrine of the Catholic faith wrong…they would have no doubt that I would leave the Catholic Church at once and go worship at their church.

That is a life long vow that I have taken, given to anyone, at any time. All it takes is one doctrine, even the most simplest and most undeveloped doctrine of the Catholic Church. One doctrine wrong of the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church is a shame, the Bride that I hold dear will never see my eyes lay on her again.

I have no doubt that my entire life will never see that day, I could go on a crusade and visit every heretic, schismatic, atheist, intellectual, and peasant and never find a single person to prove a single doctrine wrong.

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[quote]super saiyan wrote:<<< If it’s that simple, then show me. Quit dancing around and show me where the Bible teaches the trinity.[/quote]I was talking about the singularity of God. There is but ONE only true and living. Not even God could have made anything clearer to us insolent rebellious creatures of His. However, here is today’s 5 minute study. Please friend, please let Him speak to you.
<< Deuteronomy 6:4 >>[quote]Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one![/quote]
<<< John 1:1 and then v.14 >>>[quote]1-In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. <<<>>> 14-And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.[/quote]
<<< Matthew 12:31 >>>[quote]Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.[/quote]Three clearly distinct persons to whom deity is ascribed while the existence one, UNO, one more than zero and one less than two, ONE God is flatly proclaimed as existing at all. Like I say, that is an EXTREMELY abbreviated biblical statement of the triune nature of the Godhead which brings me back ONCE MORE.

See folks, this is what you get with these wonderful people. Please, will you share with me a lowly man? Please? Pretty Please with sugar on top? HOW MANY GODS ARE IN THE GODHEAD? That’s not yelling. That’s emphasis. I am asking you a simple question the honest answer to which, if we ever get one, will demonstrate clearly that while you are probably a great guy, faithful family man and fine American as the serious Mormons I’ve met always are, the god and jesus you are talking about have nothing to do with good news of salvation as understood by the Christian church universal from the 12th of Genesis on and especially since the first century. Please, I’m groveling here.

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[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
What is it with this guy folks? One minute he’s beating somebody upside the head with his proudly proclaimed ignorance and yet he keeps nagging me for proof that he has by definition already declared impossible?
Galatians 2:20

No proof is possible in the realm of autonomous man.[/quote]

The problem is that your faux proof is self-confirming and circular. It is meaningless, and can be used by any religion to prove their particular beliefs just like you’re trying to do.

What you don’t get is that THEY claim their evidence comes from god, and not autonomous man. THEY insist, just like you insist, that their knowledge is real and everyone else is spiritually dead and confused.

You have nothing to offer, absolutely nothing, that they don’t similarly offer. There is no way to establish that your beliefs are any more true than their beliefs.

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[quote]forlife wrote:<<< You have nothing to offer, absolutely nothing, that they don’t similarly offer. There is no way to establish that your beliefs are any more true than their beliefs.[/quote]They have one and all a contingent god or gods and are therefore in EXACTLY the same intellectual boat as unbelievers.