Damn man your going wayyyy back.
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During my venture in the bodybuilding world, it seemed an undeniable agreed belief that “The Myth”, Sergio Oliva, was the first real freak of the bodybuilding world.
Oh that goes without question.
I think i need to change the word freak… to monster .
First, my position takes no reference to the Mr Olympia winners as a standard, though you will mention Frank Zane as a Mr Olympia under 200lbs.
My reference is based on my experience. When I first took clenbuterol I noticed that my normal body temperature seemed higher. I could burn more fat without starving more. So, I could compete at about the same weight and be sharper. I would start clenbuterol about 4 or 5 weeks out. At the same time, there seemed a correlation between more Heavyweight Class (over 198 1/4lbs) overall winners and possible clenbuterol use. And, sure, it could very well have also been just more AAS. But HGH and insulin had not yet hit the scene in any noticeable number of competitors. For me, once I saw the results of clenbuterol, it was a “must have” contest prep drug.
Just a note: There were no weight classes in National Contests until 1980. I recall the Mr. Florida started using weight classes in 1978.
That is fairly well agreed upon. More drugs should build more muscle tissue.
I know that conditioning was no where in the ballpark in the 1940’ and 1950’s, but Steve Reeves claimed to be 6’1" and 216lbs, for what that is worth.
Save True 1 Rm maxes for competition never the gym.
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Truth. Two rep maxes are better, and more accurate.
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The real truth is only when in the competition with impartial judges on a level playing field, regardless of whether you feel comfortable.
Another nuance to all this was the East Coast vs West Coast struggle between Hoffman, and Lurie (add in Rader -Nebraska) vs Weider that went on in the 1960’s and 1970’s.
My point still stands.
How heavy was Yates?
Broke 260 at 5’ 10" in competition state apparently.
Yes that wide, but how tall was he?
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I know but, apparently this guy was there and weighed them himself.
I just work here, nobody tells me anything.
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I believe nattys need to train legs at least twice a week to see real results. I get pretty discouraged by all the “rate my routine” threads lately that look like:
Monday-- chest and bis
Tuesday-- back
Thursday-- legs and shoulders
Friday–Arms
Saturday–Arms and shoulders
I just can’t make sense of it when like 70% of our muscle mass is in our lower body.
One time I tried posting an example of a well balanced upper/ lower split and people jumped all over it for being too much lower body. For context, a sample leg day was just front squats, RDLs, split squats and leg curls. 
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Oh for sure, no question. I was thinking more
Because he was absolutely nuts for then, haha.
I agree, but I believe that weekly program should be a “heavy” leg day and then a “light” leg day a few days later. This is especially true if one of those leg days is not a day that they deadlift anything close to heavy. “Heavy” hips and lower back should not exceed two days a week.
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Similar idea but I like to split it up with one day heavy squatting followed by high volume or speed hinge work and the second day heavy pulls followed by volume or speed squat work.
Let me preface this by saying I don’t disagree AT ALL. Devils advocate though, there are fewer muscle groups in your leg so it’s natural to assume it’s easier to get adequate volume in. I think that’s a lot of peoples line of thinking (although sure, for most it’s just because they enjoy training the mirror muscles and hate training legs).
With that said, people will see their best overall body gains with a squat variation and a deadlift variation on both days but it’s a lot of work for genpop to come to terms with (and more experienced trainers are sometimes forced “graduate” from doing that as the weights get heavier). I did that kind of thing for a long time, but the gym isn’t my everything anymore and I find I feel much better day to day in terms of recovery and excitement to go to the gym when I have 1 heavy leg day, 1 light leg day. Depending on how strong you get, it may even end up essential to split it that way…
Squat/Hinge split is obviously great too.
I lean towards disagreeing here. I don’t recall which study or article I found this from (I remembered posting it a couple years ago so I pasted it here), but this seems a lot more accurate to me.
I think it’s arbitary anyway given how the best bang for buck leg exercises train more than just your legs. A hinge is often the main move for your erectors, and involves a lot of the rest of the back. Then there’s the core involvement too. Even if there is less overall muscle mass when you directly split it, It definitely doesn’t mean that “lower” days has less muscle mass involved. Especially in a traditional setup.