I wasn’t making a statement regarding UK’s position, although I know @Legalsteel is pro-Brexit. I was merely pointing out that he inadvertently made a compelling pro-EU argument.
My personal opinion is that Brexit will result in UK ending up being even more culturally dominated by cousins across the pond. That can be a bad thing, as can be seen by the BLM/Antifa protests and statue toppling that spilled over into the UK, despite American cultural battles having no connection with actual conditions in Britain.
UK is one of the very few countries that was infected by the woke virus, and I believe these trends will only escalate in the near future.
Stefan Zweig put in into words much more eloquently than I ever could:
On a side note, Wes Anderson’s Grand Budapest Hotel, although an Anderson-esque fiction is a brilliant homage to the life and times of Zweig.
I was merely reporting the noted position of Thatcher and Blair. Although, Thatcher was pushed off a cliff once she got a tad too Brexity.
I would say that is correct. The direction has been apparent for a while. Blair made many changes to the British legal framework that are openly based on the United States (the devolved governments, the ‘Supreme Court’, etc.)
It appears to be a generalised anglophone malady for reasons that aren’t wholly clear. American cultural dominance is certainly a large part of it.
So far it seems anyway. But the U.K. has never had much of that particular problem, until recently that is…
For the record, I have no problem with the EU existing, nor do I think the reasons for it are silly, I just don’t think the U.K. should be in it.
My reasons for not supporting it are largely legal and constitutional. A referendum was, probably, the worst possible mechanism to extract us, but why relitigate the last 4 years again.
Largely true, although I wouldn’t consider myself among the aged demographic. U.K. commonwealth citizens are also quite pro-leave. London Aussies and Kiwis seemed to be the only demographic I talked to that were 100% leave.
I support being part of the EU but I agree with you on this. My concern was that you could see bojo had no plan and it’s shown to be true. As he never had a plan for anyone but himself.
Do you mind outlining for a none legal your issues. I’ve asked pro brexit family and friends and just got daily mail fantasy. I’m genuinely interested and not asking to start a back and forth. If you’ve done it before let me know where to find it.
Of course. Basically, I don’t think the court of justice fits our system where parliament (technically the monarch in parliament) is sovereign. That ultimately means that there are two ultimate sources of law in the country, and that will inevitably cause friction.
The U.K. has a common law (judge made law) system with a parliament, where the EU countries are mostly civil law systems. One places much more importance on the judiciary, where the civil law system is much more based on detailed legislation, as a proponent of common law, I wanted the conflict to be removed.
I’m also not sanguine on legislation made to suit 27 countries working as it expands into areas beyond trade.
Another key reason I supported Brexit was to deprive government after government of the Brussels excuse. Now they can’t blame their failures on the EU, which is a net gain in my eyes.
Question for you Legal: does the UK have an increasing degree of polarization analogous to what I have lived in the States? You noted to loppar that they haven’t had the problem of extreme left/right until recently, and my limited knowledge of the circumstanced of UK politics and history (expanded by you) has seemed to show that at least during the 19th and 20th centuries Britain was never particularly polarized by party. Class perhaps, not party politics.
Less so than the states, but yes. Corbyn and Brexit would not have happened otherwise. Do I think there’s fallow soil for an outright fascist or communist party? No. But it’s certainly worse in terms of polarisation than it was even 10 years ago.
Maybe sanity prevails and we all calm down, maybe all the woke caused us to disappear up our own fundament, God only knows.
Can you imagine what would happen if you’d let Boris and Corbyn housesit?
Corbyn: The house seem in order. He opens the door with a stern expression on his face because he took the liberty going through the books in your living room and making a list of Zionist, Bourgeois and Zionist-Bourgeois literature. He absolutely inists that you come to a meeting tomorrow to hear first hand from the comrades how you’re just a tool in the hands of the global capitalists. Oh, and about the neighbors across the street - the surname sounded Jewish so he sent their address to some friends of his from the Middle East (or maybe Yorkshire?) who are actively fighting Israeli opression. Don’t worry, they’ll just come to talk to them and pressure them to convince the Rotschilds to stop financing the apartheid regime in Israel.They all know each other you see.
Johnson: Opens the door with a sheepish grin on his face, offers to make a cup of tea, then realizes it’s your house and tongue-in-cheek apologizes. He tells you how during your absence he has been re-reading about Pericles and Alcibiades and how the latter is unjustly reviled by history which in turn led to him being overcame with anguish. And how me met this truly fascinating young lady. Well, more like invited her over after having found her online. And isn’t “prostitute” such a vulgar phrase? And did you know that the Athenians ranked their sex workers based on phylosophical debating skills? Well, there’s a bit of a mess on the carpet and he gave the money he found in the drawer to the fiery young lady who refused a credit card. I mean seriously in this day and age. He swears that he’ll send someone to clean up the bedroom and he really must be off now, some boring government stuff and you never see him again.
@Legalsteel thanks for your answer, that’s the best probrexit argument I’ve seen.
@loppar that was funny and very close to what I think when I’m weighing up a politician.
What’s both your thoughts on Starmer? Hearing his precise questions on PMQs has been refreshing, even if the answers have never been genuine. Hearing someone who can make a coherent statement has been mesmerising.
@Aragorn I don’t think it’s that divided, the harder left and right got a hold on labor and the Tory’s but it didn’t work for either team. Corbyn is gone, bojo has lost friends and support.
As a side note I’m left in a left place and I’m not sure who’s referred to when woke is said. Is it the more aggressive idealogues? The full Communists in mind but trust fund in experience?
So from what I can gather, the EU has climbed down on arbitration, and the role of the ECJ, and the domestic application of EU laws in the U.K., while the U.K. has agreed to 5.5 years of status quo ante on fisheries, and no agreed deal on services.
Overall, for my money, a decent outcome for both sides.
Edit: overall, no winner but a reasonable, if imperfect, outcome which doesn’t completely sour relations between the EU and U.K.
