He did like 6 exercises for back. 3 sets per exercise would be 18 sets for back. Not sure why you think that is high volume ? Did you read somewhere that you can’t do more than a certain number ?
I suppose I’m just used to seeing volume closer down in the 12-16ish set, and spread across fewer exercises. That also seems very consistent with a lot of reccomendations I’ve seen on this site. Again, I was curious about why this discrepancy existed
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Volume is such an individual thing. That back and biceps session above is far from excessive volume but it could also be too much for some people to recover from if all other aspects are not nailed like diet, rest, recovery, sleep ect.
Also an interesting thing to think about, maybe Jack could drop a few exercises from that and gain the exact amount of muscle. Maybe, after a certain point his extra work is a waste of time in terms of actual physical benefit. But he enjoys training that way and doesn’t want to leave anything on the table so it’s absolutely right for him, especially if he isn’t feeling beat up, is gaining weight and progressing. If you try the above but feel run down and progress is non existent then you would know it’s not working for you.
It’s a balancing act between recovery capabilities, time, enjoyment and actual progress.
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This is probably something I’ve never experienced from high volume bodybuilder style training. I’ll feel run down from heavy deadlift and squat sessions though.
I used to do workouts closer to @jackolee’s, but switched to a lower volume and higher frequency. I’m now going back the other direction and doing a more traditional bodybuilding split. When you eliminate heavy deadlifts and squats from your training, you can actually do a lot of work and still feel fresher. For the record, removing these hasn’t been my choice.
@j4gga2, I’ve read the same stuff and still find myself questioning certain things. I’m beginning to wonder if the stuff we read is more geared towards young or new trainees. CT is really pushing the high frequency, low volume stuff these days. 5/3/1 stuff is more of a bare bones compound lift approach. I’ve seen numerous coaches state that workouts like what you see above are too much volume, counterproductive, unnecessary, etc.
The fact remains that there are many people at the gym who do these exact types of workouts who look way better than I do. They have the delts that I want. They have the proportions that I want. Well, I’ve finally accepted that what they’re doing seems to be working. I’m going back to my bro split training. The up side is that it actually seems to be less stressful on my body.
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Cheers for your input guys, some really well thought out responses.
@Frank_C I think it’s interesting that we see so many “counter-culture” training reccomendations. At some point, if all coaches try to propose/champion something different to the rest don’t they stop being different themselves?
I’m wondering now if the “general reccomendations” are:
1- Based (partly) on marketing
2- Based on “can’t go wrong” approaches, as there seems to be very little else out there
The second in particular makes a lot of sense, but I think it would be refreshing to see articles on how coaches train the upper and lower echelon.
Then, again, that could pretty easily turn into a cluster fuck of people like me trying to train like James Harrison or Triple H when I feel good, or like some 60 year old grandma if I don’t
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I’d like to add that lots of things I see recommended to beginners are totally shit suggestions. Drink a gallon of milk a day and do stronglifts. Don’t work your arms. Don’t train your core directly. Don’t go to failure. Don’t do too much volume. Don’t do a bro split. You have to lift x amount of weight to not be a beginner.
Some of those suggestions can work, but for the most part, it’s all bullshit, ESPECIALLY if your focus is bodybuilding. Pretty much all the beginner advice nowadays is anti-bodybuilding. But the big ass bodybuilders are still doin the same old bro splits on low-fat diets with fuck tons of volume and isolation work. If you think jack does a lot of volume, my log might make your eyes bleed.
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Yeah I’m my opinion (when bodybuilding is concerned) its all way over complicated. It’s not easy, but it’s pretty simple. Force as much blood into the muscle as possible, and eat and rest to recover. You’ve got to be a little more careful about recovery if your doing it natural, but the premise is the same.
A pro buddy of mine went as far as saying that he wouldn’t have made it to where he is today if he had “followed the rules”. He just kept pushing until he couldn’t push anymore. If form wasn’t the best but it allowed him 3 more reps without injury, that’s the route he took.
Being almost 40, I’m a little more conservative when it comes to pushing through the pain, but my goal each workout is total and utter fatigue.
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I think most of us around here are used to seeing people advocate pushing limits with strength training. It’s common to see advice that says to push yourself. Get used to being uncomfortable.
On the flip side, I don’t see any of that when it comes to bodybuilding programs. I like to work hard but I’m not a fan of pain. Maybe it’s time to to start training for pain with this bro split. I can keep pushing.
I just wish I knew how far to take it. How many drop sets is beneficial and how many is a waste of time?
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Ive always gone with 25-30 sets per week is about max.
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I think most of us are used to listening to coaches who train athletes, not bodybuilders.
Well I had a crap weekend with no workouts and terrible nutrition partly due to my competition, but mostly because I didn’t prep meals and just flew by the seat of my pants. Visually I don’t think look too bad, but the scale is showing 174.2. That’s coming up way faster than planned.
I’m not going to stress about gaining a little fat on this bulk though. I know my body and realize that if I want to hit 195 by the end of the year I’m going to have to eat and eat and eat. Also I’m going to have to dirty it up a on occasion.
Today I’ll be back to my planned 3500 calories with quality nutrition. I’m actually looking forward to it lol.
Gotta get the kid to school here in a bit, and then knock out chest and triceps before doing some work in the backyard to prep everything for summer.
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I did the same yesterday but at the same time, was training shoulders whilst digging and moving bags of soil between sets!
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However you can get it done!
Won’t lie… I’m enjoying my larger portions still!
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I need to move more so I can eat more! I’m at 2500 calories a day (moved down from 2700 after last night).
I could really enjoy an extra 1000 calories.
It is nice. My trainer wants me to focus on pre and post workout nutrition more and that’s gonna eat up a lot of my carbs. He wants me having two scoops of karbolyn and one scoop of protein pre and post workout. That comes to 200g carbs and 50g protein. Still gives me about 250 g carbs for the rest of the day, but I will have to modify a bit.
I’m gonna give it a try and see how it goes.
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I used to think that. Now I’m doing it and it’s really not a lot of fun. Wish I liked rice and boring food more.
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That looks like an awesome meal. Is that ketchup on the eggs?? Haha
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No sugar added ketchup
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