[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Dude, you just asked if it’s possible to get bigger without gaining weight. That’s like asking if it’s possible to get bigger without getting bigger or asking if it’s possible to gain weight without gaining weight.
Your correct questions would be:
“Is it possible to get stronger while maintaining weight?”
“How do I improve my body composition while maintaining weight?”
Answers:
Yes, you can get stronger and maintain or lose weight by becoming more efficient in lifts. That’s a whole issue of program design, and being that you’re an athlete, you shouldn’t be following a bodybuilding program.
To maintain weight and improve body composition, simply eat at maintenance amount and continue training or add in more physical activity.
If you want to lose weight, increase physical activity and eat slightly below maintenance amount. If you’re a serious athlete, you should have no problem shedding weight considering the high volume of training an athlete does. So I would go for what I recommend: eat at maintenance amount and continue training. [/quote]
I know it sounds stupid, sorry about that. Maybe I am wording my thoughts incorrectly. I’ve been following Stu’s progress towards an upcoming competition. If someone is competing in the middleweight division, is it possible for this same person to come back and compete next year in the same division while looking bigger and better?
It is possible of course. The weight-classes have ranges… If you were 5 lb away from the cut-off, you can gain 5 lb of contest weight and be bigger (in that case, best to concentrate that gain on some weak area as it’s too little to make a major difference when gained equally all-over).
Then you can possibly improve your dryness and leanness /contest shape, so that would again mean carrying a little less water/fat which frees a few lbs for muscle.
Or you could, perhaps, try to lose some muscle in some areas on purpose (i.e. no quad work at all for some time, then maintenance later on) while focusing your training more on, say, your shoulders in order to bring up your taper.
If you’re not competing and just walking around at 15% bw, then leaning out while staying at the same weight (or losing fat first and then gaining the lbs back, but this time in muscle-tissue) can work fine. Will likely mean getting stronger at a fairly stable bodyweight.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
It is possible of course. The weight-classes have ranges… If you were 5 lb away from the cut-off, you can gain 5 lb of contest weight and be bigger (in that case, best to concentrate that gain on some weak area as it’s too little to make a major difference when gained equally all-over).
Then you can possibly improve your dryness and leanness /contest shape, so that would again mean carrying a little less water/fat which frees a few lbs for muscle.
Or you could, perhaps, try to lose some muscle in some areas on purpose (i.e. no quad work at all for some time, then maintenance later on) while focusing your training more on, say, your shoulders in order to bring up your taper.
If you’re not competing and just walking around at 15% bw, then leaning out while staying at the same weight (or losing fat first and then gaining the lbs back, but this time in muscle-tissue) can work fine. Will likely mean getting stronger at a fairly stable bodyweight.
[/quote]
I see. So basically, a bodybuilder that plans to compete year after year will not compete in the same division year after year b/c there is a limit to what that person can achieve without going over a certain weight. Unless as you stated, that person keeps shuffling muscles from one group to another. Eventually, every bodybuilder will end up a heavyweight if he continues to train hard year after year and buildling muscles in every group.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
It is possible of course. The weight-classes have ranges… If you were 5 lb away from the cut-off, you can gain 5 lb of contest weight and be bigger (in that case, best to concentrate that gain on some weak area as it’s too little to make a major difference when gained equally all-over).
Then you can possibly improve your dryness and leanness /contest shape, so that would again mean carrying a little less water/fat which frees a few lbs for muscle.
Or you could, perhaps, try to lose some muscle in some areas on purpose (i.e. no quad work at all for some time, then maintenance later on) while focusing your training more on, say, your shoulders in order to bring up your taper.
If you’re not competing and just walking around at 15% bw, then leaning out while staying at the same weight (or losing fat first and then gaining the lbs back, but this time in muscle-tissue) can work fine. Will likely mean getting stronger at a fairly stable bodyweight.
[/quote]
I see. So basically, a bodybuilder that plans to compete year after year will not compete in the same division year after year b/c there is a limit to what that person can achieve without going over a certain weight. Unless as you stated, that person keeps shuffling muscles from one group to another. Eventually, every bodybuilder will end up a heavyweight if he continues to train hard year after year and buildling muscles in every group.
[/quote]
No, not everyone will wind up a heavyweight, either by choice or because they can’t get that big.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
It is possible of course. The weight-classes have ranges… If you were 5 lb away from the cut-off, you can gain 5 lb of contest weight and be bigger (in that case, best to concentrate that gain on some weak area as it’s too little to make a major difference when gained equally all-over).
Then you can possibly improve your dryness and leanness /contest shape, so that would again mean carrying a little less water/fat which frees a few lbs for muscle.
Or you could, perhaps, try to lose some muscle in some areas on purpose (i.e. no quad work at all for some time, then maintenance later on) while focusing your training more on, say, your shoulders in order to bring up your taper.
If you’re not competing and just walking around at 15% bw, then leaning out while staying at the same weight (or losing fat first and then gaining the lbs back, but this time in muscle-tissue) can work fine. Will likely mean getting stronger at a fairly stable bodyweight.
[/quote]
I see. So basically, a bodybuilder that plans to compete year after year will not compete in the same division year after year b/c there is a limit to what that person can achieve without going over a certain weight. Unless as you stated, that person keeps shuffling muscles from one group to another. Eventually, every bodybuilder will end up a heavyweight if he continues to train hard year after year and buildling muscles in every group.
[/quote]
No, not everyone will wind up a heavyweight, either by choice or because they can’t get that big. [/quote]
So whether it’s by choice or they can’t get that big, eventually they are just working out to maintain their muscles b/c if it’s by choice, their muscles can’t get any bigger b/c they will be heavier or they can’t get that big, so they are just training at their limit. Assuming that there is not much body fat variance to play with.
Pretty much… But then you have other goals you can follow: Better conditioning/endurance, maximize relative strength in a certain weight-class (not contest shape) for a powerlifting meet perhaps, etc.
Got to realize that most people don’t simply run into a wall during their prime years… Many bodybuilders peak in their late 30’s drug-free and even in their 40’s (esp. chemically enhanced guys).
Mostly, they will keep gaining a few pounds a year, or some situation will come up which has them lose some weight (death in the family, stressful job, baby, whatever) which they can regain… Or they’ll simply decide that gaining and/or maintaining an even larger physique is too cost-intensive/difficult/whatever, and they’ll start maintaining their current one instead… Older guys tend to drop some weight and go from smooth off-season look to 20-40 lbs lighter with abs showing… Easier on the heart, easier to maintain…
So don’t worry about that too much.
That being said, a drug-free athlete’s anabolic hormone level (and diet, of course) fluctuations between off-season (if he chooses to have a proper, non-restrictive one) and late-stage contest diet/shape will mean that he can hold and gain more mass in the off-season than he’ll be able to hold in contest shape, and that disconnect between the two will grow larger and larger the bigger the drug-free bodybuilder becomes.
Sub-200 lb guys shouldn’t lose much muscle when dieting down, even with a drastic negative impact on hormone levels, 160-180lb of lbm should be “easily” maintainable. Someone who is of average height yet weighs 260+ in the off-season drug-free (doesn’t have to be fat, just smooth) is likely going to lose quite a bit more muscle when dieting down without something to keep his hormone levels good, and he’ll have to diet longer…
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Pretty much… But then you have other goals you can follow: Better conditioning/endurance, maximize relative strength in a certain weight-class (not contest shape) for a powerlifting meet perhaps, etc.
Got to realize that most people don’t simply run into a wall during their prime years… Many bodybuilders peak in their late 30’s drug-free and even in their 40’s (esp. chemically enhanced guys).
Mostly, they will keep gaining a few pounds a year, or some situation will come up which has them lose some weight (death in the family, stressful job, baby, whatever) which they can regain… Or they’ll simply decide that gaining and/or maintaining an even larger physique is too cost-intensive/difficult/whatever, and they’ll start maintaining their current one instead… Older guys tend to drop some weight and go from smooth off-season look to 20-40 lbs lighter with abs showing… Easier on the heart, easier to maintain…
So don’t worry about that too much.
That being said, a drug-free athlete’s anabolic hormone level (and diet, of course) fluctuations between off-season (if he chooses to have a proper, non-restrictive one) and late-stage contest diet/shape will mean that he can hold and gain more mass in the off-season than he’ll be able to hold in contest shape, and that disconnect between the two will grow larger and larger the bigger the drug-free bodybuilder becomes.
Sub-200 lb guys shouldn’t lose much muscle when dieting down, even with a drastic negative impact on hormone levels, 160-180lb of lbm should be “easily” maintainable. Someone who is of average height yet weighs 260+ in the off-season drug-free (doesn’t have to be fat, just smooth) is likely going to lose quite a bit more muscle when dieting down without something to keep his hormone levels good, and he’ll have to diet longer…
what about t-bar rows. I have the machine/mechanism in my gym so theres WIDE semi neural grip and a CLOSE neutral grip. Which one should I use to optimize muscle activation (lats, etc).
Brick i know you’re a nutritionist so ill ask. If I substitute lets say a sandwich(s) (bread ie. carbs) with a cheap cut of meat high in fat and protein for 1 or 2 of my meals will I gain/lose fat or stay the same? Most of my calories come from carbs daily.
On a similar note, what would you advise for someone who’s already got pretty high body fat (only around 180 but 17-18% body fat or so) but still looking to gain muscle because I haven’t hit some goals I want to reach yet. What calories would you increase in that case? I was planning on just increasing everything by equal percentages to what they’re at now. Increasing 200 calories on all days since I haven’t really gained any weight recently.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
what about t-bar rows. I have the machine/mechanism in my gym so theres WIDE semi neural grip and a CLOSE neutral grip. Which one should I use to optimize muscle activation (lats, etc).[/quote]
For me, it’s more difficult to retract my shoulder blades and bring the shoulders back at the top when using a close neutral (v-handle) grip, because my body gets in the way. So I’d call that a bit more of a lat movement… Less likely to get full ROM out of your backthickness musculature.
The wider grip should make it perfectly possibly to do the retraction part completely, easier to use that for thickness (don’t go so heavy that it ends up being all arms and no retraction though)…
Maybe a narrower guy can go full ROM on the close neutral grip though, so I guess it depends on the person.
Brick is right, ultimately they both train the same areas, just with a bit of a shift in emphasis (depending on your technique and structure). Close-neutral has more internal rotation in there…
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
On a similar note, what would you advise for someone who’s already got pretty high body fat (only around 180 but 17-18% body fat or so) but still looking to gain muscle because I haven’t hit some goals I want to reach yet. What calories would you increase in that case? My off days are 2400 (95f/100c/285p) and workout days are 2800 (85f/235c/275p). I was planning on just increasing everything by equal percentages to what they’re at now. Increasing 200 calories on all days since I haven’t really gained any weight recently. [/quote]
More protein, less carbs for one…
As in, 340-360g of protein on all days, reduce carbs by roughly as much as you’re increasing your protein, and see if that helps you lean out a bit while gaining strength… If you want to gain weight, add a bit of fat to your diet then instead of carbs… You might manage to lean out some that way. No big carb meals a few hours before bed either.
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
If you’re back dominant or balanced, you can use closer, neutral, and underhanded grips. If you’re arms-dominant, use wider and overhanded grips. [/quote]
For me, I sort of become arm flexor dominant if I go too close to my max on Rows/pullups and on the very last rep or two of a higher rep set to failure.
Less of a grip thing, though close underhand (close-grip chins) make it absolutely impossible to bring the shoulders back for me (body in the way again), they end up rounded/pushed forward and then it’s all bis and rear delts…
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
If you’re back dominant or balanced, you can use closer, neutral, and underhanded grips. If you’re arms-dominant, use wider and overhanded grips. [/quote]
For me, I sort of become arm flexor dominant if I go too close to my max on Rows/pullups and on the very last rep or two of a higher rep set to failure.
Less of a grip thing, though close underhand (close-grip chins) make it absolutely impossible to bring the shoulders back for me (body in the way again), they end up rounded/pushed forward and then it’s all bis and rear delts…
[/quote]
Right. That’s why I don’t recommend underhand grip for those already biceps-dominant. They just recruit the biceps too much for those with strong or easily-stimulated bis.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Brick i know you’re a nutritionist so ill ask. If I substitute lets say a sandwich(s) (bread ie. carbs) with a cheap cut of meat high in fat and protein for 1 or 2 of my meals will I gain/lose fat or stay the same? Most of my calories come from carbs daily.[/quote]
Your question reflects your lack of nutrition education AS A WHOLE. Know what I mean?
It’s a vague question. I don’t know what kind of sandwich you’re talking about and how many calories and grams of fat, protein, and carbs it contains or what those meals contain. I don’t know if it’s an even swap.
A meat might be cheap in price but not cheap in quality. I get Dietz & Watson turkey and ham cold cuts from Costco and they are of excellent quality in my opinion. Not something you’d include in a pre-contest prep, but fine for a lifestyle diet.
I buy innards because they’re cheap also. You can buy a pound of liver or hearts for 2 bucks! No, not the nicest thing to eat. But being that I eat 90% of my food for nothing but fuel and muscle building, I don’t care. 10% (3 meals per week) are cheat meals.
I don’t go overboard with cheat meals anymore either. I used to have a cheat meal in which I just went wild and ate so much. I don’t do that anymore.