The Bodybuilder Bunker

Training Bodybuilding
721

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i have a question about cortisol and its affects on catabolism.

i read something from CT about in the Physique Clinic about how ectomorphs shouldnt do heavy sets with low reps because that body type produces more cortisol from it and will do more harm than good.

have any ectos on here from experience found this to be either true or false? ive never really seen any ectos doing heavy work, usually just shorter/stockier guys. and as you guys are stressing the importance building a certain level of strength with heavy sets first it makes me wonder more about it. [/quote]

Might want to check out a thread I started ages ago ‘my own clinic’, I tried CT’s training and if anything my physique got worse.

722

[quote]SSC wrote:
So, how many people here keep a strict, clean diet all the time? I try, but sometimes I’ll indulge in a Hershey’s kisses or something like that. (Living at home this summer is going to be a test of will.) If I do err, I try to lean towards something high(er) in protein, like chicken-pizza, fettucini, spaghetti, etc.[/quote]

I make myself eat a whole large pizza to myself at least once a week, and if I’m lazy, I’ll have some True Mass on my off days.

723

[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Lol you call hershey’s kisses an indulgence?

So I was thinking, when I’m really lean at the end of this summer, I’m hopefully preparing for some long term size gaining. Without stopping for summer cuts and shit,

I was thinking maybe shoot .5lbs a week, or up to 3 lbs per month to be my running average. That seems slow, but what if I did that for 2 years, all the while keeping up with cardio and keep the diet in check to keep bodyfat levels in check according. That’d put me at a full 50lbs heavier, and at that rate of growth, it seems plausible that it would be a very good muscle to fat ratio and a considerable size gain for 2 years.

Thoughts? I’ve never really ‘bulked’ before. There was just eating enough to be strong and fat, and subsequently transforming out of fatass hood.[/quote]

Just don’t overdo it on your carbs and bust your ass in the gym, make sure you sleep…

…Hell, you know what to do.

Edit: Oh yea, force feed like a mother fucker.

724

[quote]GrabAKimber wrote:
Bellicus wrote:
GrabAKimber wrote:
Okay

Here’s a doosy: Posterior delt, train it with shoulder or back? I mean isolation movements for it of course. I personally, (If military didn’t dictate my training) would have a shoulders and back day in which I would include either bent-over lateral raises or reverse pec-dec.

So what do the guys over 200 pounds do for their posterior delt? (Pfft Prof X)

:slight_smile: Thanks

What about us short fuckers?

Bahaha I’m sorry bro dude~

I’m 5’6.75" or 5’7" with a bump on my head, so I feel ya! I only say it because I kind of want to discourage those weekend warriors from answering, since their results of muscle growth a skewed from someone with say an intermediate phase of training. I asked the question just to start up a conversation about the posterior delt. I have seen it split both ways: 50% train it on back the other half on shoulder day, some albiet a few, train it twice a week.[/quote]

No doubt. I’m a stump-5’6". I hit my posterior delt on shoulder day with some sets of Seated Bent-Over Lateral Raises (say that 10 times fast).

725

[quote]SSC wrote:
So, how many people here keep a strict, clean diet all the time? I try, but sometimes I’ll indulge in a Hershey’s kisses or something like that. (Living at home this summer is going to be a test of will.) If I do err, I try to lean towards something high(er) in protein, like chicken-pizza, fettucini, spaghetti, etc.[/quote]

i eat whatever i want. its just things i want to eat. good thing is i dont ever want to eat donuts or candy. i dont have much of a sweet tooth. i feel i need all the calories i can get and putting on too much fat is the least of my worries with my metabolism. thing is i really hate to cook so most my food is things already prepared or easily prepared. staples in my diet are eggs, milk, BLTs, rice, take out, powerbars and whatever mom decides to cook once in a while.

726

[quote]GetSwole wrote:
I was thinking maybe shoot .5lbs a week, or up to 3 lbs per month to be my running average. That seems slow, but what if I did that for 2 years, all the while keeping up with cardio and keep the diet in check to keep bodyfat levels in check according. That’d put me at a full 50lbs heavier, and at that rate of growth, it seems plausible that it would be a very good muscle to fat ratio and a considerable size gain for 2 years.

Thoughts? I’ve never really ‘bulked’ before. There was just eating enough to be strong and fat, and subsequently transforming out of fatass hood.[/quote]

To me shooting for a particular weight gain is an exercise in futility. You chase the scale gains EVERY WEEK and you will end up fatter than you are happy with. Change that to 3-4 week weigh in/measurements. Things I’d measure if possible
Weight
Waist measurement
Bodyfat-just with calipers on a few areas
Your logbook to make sure lifts are going up

If the weight is up, logbook is moving and waist is the same with .5 less bodfat then last month keep everything in your protocol the same. If the waist went up too much compared to scale maybe cut back carbs slighty, add 10 minutes to your cardio etc.

Treat it like a year long science experiment and find out your perfect niche of the absolute most food you can eat to ensure gains, the minimum amount of cardio you need to keep lean enough, the food combinations to stay lean etc.

Start with a baseline template and slowly add and subtract to get where you want to go. 2 lbs a month with little to no waist increase means 24 lbs(likely 15-18 muscle) you gained in a year. Besides first year trainees or those who just start serious training that would be you at the very top of the food chain if you were consistent enough to pull that off over 2-4 years.

727

As always Scott, really, really good advice. Definitely makes sense. I guess I need to treat gaining just like dieting in the sense that…while dieting, I record (not everything I’m not a freak) how I feel after using certain carbs for carb ups, I experiment with foods. I’ve found dairy, even if its same total calories, seems to make fat hang on me. (I still have my milk on carb-ups though, no one can take that away). I just realized that eggs, at least 8 a day, give me gas (lol), but I’m continuing my no egg/ yes egg experiment to see how it affects my losses etc.

All that too say, I’m getting pretty in tune with my body as far as dieting goes, and I’ll just need to do the same with gaining, since I’ve never consciously gained in a bodybuilding sense before.

And if actually worked like I’m intending then I’d be a pretty large individual, on a 5.11 frame, by the time I graduated college, assuming I don’t waste every spring and summer “cutting” for a 6pack.

I know Px is gonna croak at me keeping details and such, but Prof, you already know your body, I’m trying to get to know mine as well. ;}

Cheers, thanks for the advice folks.

As for clean/dirty diets, obviously depends on my goal, right now I’m getting very lean but trying to kill a few of the typical problem areas, so I’m gonna stick to mostly clean carb-ups (clean mostly meaning not a lot of fat with it, I think, from using them, and from the experience of lots of guys that compete I spoke with on another board, that Hi G.I. carbs should be used for carb up if your in a keto phase.

Edit a couple words

728

[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Unnecessary until you are very advanced and are using lots of volume and/or (but usually and) shit heavy weight that your recovery ability simply no longer allows you work it 2+ times a week.

I stated earlier and will state again, I think the most splitting a relatively young trainee should do is push/pull legs.

At their recovery ability and their probably relatively small weights, there is simply no reason to give up an extra day of squatting/benching/rowing to exclusively hit delts or arms.

Notice I didn’t say don’t work delts and arms, I just don’t think they need/deserve an entire day until you are really using shit heavy weights.

These high school guys and guys who’ve been training 2-3 years simply don’t need a 5 way split and I don’t think its optimal for progress, size or strength.[/quote]

As soon as I switched to a 4 day split, and/or a 5 day, one bodypart a day, I saw the most progress in size. Granted in HS I had horrible coaches when it came to weight training, and me and 2 other guys followed Ian King’s 12 weeks to super strength program for about 2-3 years of my high school career, lol. Now it’s all body split training for me, I love it.

729

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Yep, Brendan is a full 20 lbs heavier than you H4M. Might wanna chill out.[/quote]

Ah I stand corrected then. My bad.

730

Question about seated cable rows. What is your preferred method of doing them?

With or without stretching forward?

I find that when I don’t stretch forward I can really focus on pulling my shoulder blades together. But when I stretch forward I can obviously move more weight, but lose the focus on pulling my shoulder blades together.

Is one way better than the other? To bend or not to bend… that is the question.

731

[quote]football061 wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
Unnecessary until you are very advanced and are using lots of volume and/or (but usually and) shit heavy weight that your recovery ability simply no longer allows you work it 2+ times a week.

I stated earlier and will state again, I think the most splitting a relatively young trainee should do is push/pull legs.

At their recovery ability and their probably relatively small weights, there is simply no reason to give up an extra day of squatting/benching/rowing to exclusively hit delts or arms.

Notice I didn’t say don’t work delts and arms, I just don’t think they need/deserve an entire day until you are really using shit heavy weights.

These high school guys and guys who’ve been training 2-3 years simply don’t need a 5 way split and I don’t think its optimal for progress, size or strength.

As soon as I switched to a 4 day split, and/or a 5 day, one bodypart a day, I saw the most progress in size. Granted in HS I had horrible coaches when it came to weight training, and me and 2 other guys followed Ian King’s 12 weeks to super strength program for about 2-3 years of my high school career, lol. Now it’s all body split training for me, I love it.[/quote]

Well, I stand corrected. Bodybuilding is beautiful, so full of options.

As for seated cable rows, I like to be leaning slightly forward, lats consciously flared the whole time. This helps me focus on my back since I get very bicep dominant if I don’t really focus on pulling movements.

732

Congrats guys, we have reached our 1 week anniversary and we are closing out our 30th page.

733

[quote]dre wrote:
Question about seated cable rows. What is your preferred method of doing them?

With or without stretching forward?

I find that when I don’t stretch forward I can really focus on pulling my shoulder blades together. But when I stretch forward I can obviously move more weight, but lose the focus on pulling my shoulder blades together.

Is one way better than the other? To bend or not to bend… that is the question.[/quote]

Do both…I slightly bend forward on every rep, not only because I can do more weight but because I feel that I get a better stretch in my lats. When you come back do it in a controlled manner and then squeeze the shoulders together focusing on squeezing the back instead of the traps.

Gerdy

734

Gerdy pointed out something I forgot, make sure you get a REALLY good stretch in your lats before you start pulling the weight back to you. Your back development will probably thankyou in the long run, at least, it has worked for the thousands of DC trainees, who really harp on stretching out in pulling movements as being the most important part of the movement.

735

Awesome, thanks Gerdy & GetSwole.

736

[quote]Corkonian wrote:
NOT what i wanted to hear !!!
I’m on my 11th month in the gym and on my 2nd month GAINING (hopefully) muscle :smiley:
2 pounds a week is alot alright, but unlike what you say about a goal i have none, and Prof said it right when he told me “keep going till you scare people”
Do you think a goal is preferable ?
What is a good goal ?
Like i have crossed the 200lb mark, still there this morning after the toilet :smiley: So looks like its actual weight !
I dunno about the scaring children bit, Prof is going to the gym ALOT longer than me so he is practically there im still a noob ?
So lets hear your take on it, if you have time :)[/quote]

Goals are interesting. While they do give you something to aim for they often can add a troubling amount of complications. It is often easier to just keep it simple.

Goal 1: Lift more each week
Goal 2: Get bigger
Diet: When you stop going up in weight and like your body fat amount, eat some more. If you are gaining too much fat, eat a little less. Keep in mind that you need to eat in excess to get bigger and the amount you need will increase with size.

When you scare yourself in the mirror in the morning, you can reconsider your goals.

No one knows how big they can get or even what they may look like at different sizes. So, why not just find out?

737

What do you guys think of high volume splits such as serge nubret’s?

He gives advice and a lot of information about what he did/does on this thread:

Training program is like this:
Day 1: Quads/Chest
Day 2: Back/Hamstrings/Calves
Day 3: Shoulders/Arms/Calves
Day 4: Quads/Chest
Day 5: Back/Hamstrings/Calves
Day 6: Shoulders/Arms/Calves
Day 7: Rest

www.performlabs.com/soft/template005wA.pdf

www.performlabs.com/soft/template005wB.pdf

www.performlabs.com/soft/template005wC.pdf

He strongly recommends doing around 3-5 exercises per bodypart, 6-8 sets of no less than 12 reps per exercise with rest times between 30sec-1min. He says to make the reps with a lighter weight than usual by contracting the target muscle as hard as possible.

He is in excellent shape still at 70 years of age and hasn’t had any joint problems other than bad back because of the 2000 sit-ups every morning.

Ive read over 350 pages of his thread on bb.com and a couple guys have been on his routine and made excellent results (no steroids). He has also said he recommends it to everyone who goes to his gym and loads of those guys have made excellent results.

For beginners he says still train using this split, just cut the sets in half and gradually build up to the full amount.

If you want a detailed write up about Serge’s training ideas and diet then read these three posts:

  1. forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=158327181&postcount=11121

  2. Serge Nubret is Up in here - Page 371 - Bodybuilding.com Forums

  3. Serge Nubret is Up in here - Page 371 - Bodybuilding.com Forums

I am going to do this routine when my shoulder gets better, but im going to start off at 4x5 - 90 sec rest and use that weight up to 8x12 - 60 sec rest

738

yeah i read about that on here like a week ago maybe? i tried skimming through the pages on BB.com to find the before/after pictures but didnt find any. if you could post some up w/ time elapsed thatd be awesome. only thing i dont like about it without trying it is that it seems it would take a shitload of time to perform all those set/reps in the gym. yea its supposed to 90 mins to complete and that seems crazy.

739

Well actually I did chest the other week and cut the sets in half and it took me 45 minutes, resting about 1min-90 sec per exercise. I also had to do my reps slowly to feel my chest contracting, but i couldn’t because of my fucked shoulder and haven’t trained since.

Serge said at his prime he was spending like 2 - 2.5 hours per bodypart, but i’m pretty sure he was on steroids at that point.

As for the before/afters i’ll have to look, post them up in a bit.

740

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Well actually I did chest the other week and cut the sets in half and it took me 45 minutes, resting about 1min-90 sec per exercise. I also had to do my reps slowly to feel my chest contracting, but i couldn’t because of my fucked shoulder and haven’t trained since.

Serge said at his prime he was spending like 2 - 2.5 hours per bodypart, but i’m pretty sure he was on steroids at that point.

As for the before/afters i’ll have to look, post them up in a bit.[/quote]

Everyone back then trained for 2 hours or more. It was thought that this was needed. That is the only thing I credit Mike Mentzer with as far as his opposition to the more equals better mentality. Most bodybuilders today are done in under two hours even if they do cardio afterwards. Serge was no different than most back then.