Well I’m not big. But I used to be bigger and fatter. Thats neither here nor there, but I’ve found to build muscle for me, I like basically what you said, big lifts are usually (no exclusively) lower and iso work are usually higher.
I’d say, you gotta find how your body best responds. But I think as long as you are training progressively and eating, you will gain size.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Guys thats are B-I-G, What do you find better for building muscle, heavy work (4-6 reps) or moderate work (8-15) reps over the long haul? I know everyone is different, and after a few years of doing this I think, for myself, I’m leaning towards heavy work.
The strength seems to come quicker and its easier to focus on going 110% if you only have 4-6 reps to hit. Maybe on a few accessory exercises going a little higher, but for the big guns (Squat, Bench, Press) I like lower rep ranges for now.
How say you?[/quote]
I gained most of my size lifting in a lower rep range. I am now using slightly higher reps (10-12) because I am trying to force more growth and the weight I am using can cause injury. In effect, there are stages at which you should approach this. getting much stronger (while eating enough to grow) should be your primary concern. If that works out to you doing only 6 reps on an exercise, so be it. I am changing things now because it is difficult to add more size at this stage of training in certain body parts and many have seen better progress by switching to a higher rep range at that point (as in, when you have already achieved a great deal of size).
About to get my nursing degree here is 3 weeks, for what thats worth.
Also, and this is just my personal experience, I did get “fat” once before during my first initial bulk (70 pounds or so from my starting weight, pics in profile) but the cut wasnt too bad and left me much more muscular than my starting weight. Not to mention AFTER that it seems easier to stay lean and gain mass. Having said that, I do know much more about training and nutrition than I used to, so all of this could be playing a role in all of that.
Can we have a “post up or shut up” rule in this thread that in order to give advice you need to post a picture in the thread or your profile?
It seems some people that arguing back and forth who “have been training for 10 years” dont have a picture handy. It might help others looking for info sort through the BS when they find people who have been at this for a decade look like they dont lift.
This goes for the whole site, not just this thread… But if we are in body builder haven lets post up.
Speaking for myself, I will be giving out the amount of advice I feel my progress allows me to give out, which is very little, but I still feel I have some knowledge in my head.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Guys thats are B-I-G, What do you find better for building muscle, heavy work (4-6 reps) or moderate work (8-15) reps over the long haul? I know everyone is different, and after a few years of doing this I think, for myself, I’m leaning towards heavy work.
The strength seems to come quicker and its easier to focus on going 110% if you only have 4-6 reps to hit. Maybe on a few accessory exercises going a little higher, but for the big guns (Squat, Bench, Press) I like lower rep ranges for now.
How say you?
I gained most of my size lifting in a lower rep range. I am now using slightly higher reps (10-12) because I am trying to force more growth and the weight I am using can cause injury. In effect, there are stages at which you should approach this. getting much stronger (while eating enough to grow) should be your primary concern. If that works out to you doing only 6 reps on an exercise, so be it. I am changing things now because it is difficult to add more size at this stage of training in certain body parts and many have seen better progress by switching to a higher rep range at that point (as in, when you have already achieved a great deal of size).[/quote]
I built a good deal of size/strength using the lower rep range and then for some reason abandoned it for a higher rep range. Ironically, I think I read too much and abandoned what was working for what was supposed to work, and I’m kicking myself because I feel my gains would have been much better over the last 12 months if I stuck with the hard and heavy.
But lesson learned, back to the basics and onward to bigger and better.
Like PX said. I think you have to get strong first.
I think these young guys working in the 12-15 rep range for “hypertrophy” with 135 on the bench, 20lbs DB curls, 185lb squat etc etc are wasting their time. Its hard to really wear out a muscle to acheive a true state of hypertrophy with babyweight.
And some exercises I think should juts be kept in certain rep ranges. I once read a post, I forget where, but it was some author who said "always keep deadlifts aroudn 12-20 reps per set.
BULLSHIT!! That’s dangerous. Holding safe form for that long is virtually impossible if there is any weight on the bar.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Can we have a “post up or shut up” rule in this thread that in order to give advice you need to post a picture in the thread or your profile?
It seems some people that arguing back and forth who “have been training for 10 years” dont have a picture handy. It might help others looking for info sort through the BS when they find people who have been at this for a decade look like they dont lift.
This goes for the whole site, not just this thread… But if we are in body builder haven lets post up.
Speaking for myself, I will be giving out the amount of advice I feel my progress allows me to give out, which is very little, but I still feel I have some knowledge in my head.[/quote]
I agree and have been saying this. The majority of the debates I have are with people who for some reason refuse to show their own progress at all.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Can we have a “post up or shut up” rule in this thread that in order to give advice you need to post a picture in the thread or your profile?
It seems some people that arguing back and forth who “have been training for 10 years” dont have a picture handy. It might help others looking for info sort through the BS when they find people who have been at this for a decade look like they dont lift.
This goes for the whole site, not just this thread… But if we are in body builder haven lets post up.
Speaking for myself, I will be giving out the amount of advice I feel my progress allows me to give out, which is very little, but I still feel I have some knowledge in my head.[/quote]
I think that is taking care of itself in this thread.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Guys thats are B-I-G, What do you find better for building muscle, heavy work (4-6 reps) or moderate work (8-15) reps over the long haul? I know everyone is different, and after a few years of doing this I think, for myself, I’m leaning towards heavy work.
The strength seems to come quicker and its easier to focus on going 110% if you only have 4-6 reps to hit. Maybe on a few accessory exercises going a little higher, but for the big guns (Squat, Bench, Press) I like lower rep ranges for now.
How say you?
I gained most of my size lifting in a lower rep range. I am now using slightly higher reps (10-12) because I am trying to force more growth and the weight I am using can cause injury. In effect, there are stages at which you should approach this. getting much stronger (while eating enough to grow) should be your primary concern. If that works out to you doing only 6 reps on an exercise, so be it. I am changing things now because it is difficult to add more size at this stage of training in certain body parts and many have seen better progress by switching to a higher rep range at that point (as in, when you have already achieved a great deal of size).[/quote]
This is age dependent. Coming from my side of of the age continuum, I rarely do low rep stuff because I see better gains in the 8-12 rep range. I always try to increase my weight if I get more than 12 reps in a set. Low reps and heavy weights are a recipe for injury if you are a member of AARP.
Good point RJ. The older you get, even just in training age, the more you will have to pay attention to your joints and such.
Lonnie, you mentioned advice, I’ll just say, I’ll give my opinions on things. They are just opinions. And I’ll give my experience on what I have experience with.
People can pick and choose what they percieve as advice.
The mindset of this thread is clearly filtering out the dungheaps.
Brick for instance, poisoned this thread for about 3 pages, and I hope he doesn’t come back. The response he got proves that this thread has an auto filter, which is a good thing.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
GetSwole wrote:
Dude they invented tupperware and ziplocs a long time ago.
I carry 2 ziplocs anytime I’m out for for several hours and don’t think I’ll get a meal.
1 ziploc-Supps
1-ziploc-protein powder or left over meat
This brings up an issue that pisses me off to no end, so pardon my little rant:
Why is it that the little 13" arm cunts are usually the ones crying about the evils of plastic food containers, and all the xeno-estrogens?
Look you little fucker - try eating some damn food instead of micro analyzing the bowl it is stored in.
Eat the fucking food, asshole. Stop staring at the fucking bowl.
Rant over. [/quote]
LOL!
Best post ever!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
SSC wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Wimpy wrote:
Shugart updated his blog today. Another piece from a T-Nation author bashing bodybuilding. Why am I not surprised? They should just go ahead and have T-Nation redirect to Men’s Health.
Like BBer’s don’t have a life.
It’s a shame he won’t allow anyone to call him out. I’ll put my life up against his any day.
Evidently he wasn’t talking with Mark Dugdale. He’s a family man if there ever was such a thing.
I think the root of the problems on this site has been located.
Apparently we don’t. I went to school all of those years yet Shugart can’t find even one bodybuilder with the desire to compete who could hold him a conversation on or above his level.
Isn’t P22 a licensed nurse?
I’m sort of confused as to what’s going on here. I keep hearing complains about “an author,” and then here people are talking about Shugart. I haven’t been a member for a long time, but I’ve been reading articles for a while. Is there some sort of conspiracy or something. . . ?
Or if it’s a touchy subject, can someone at least PM me and tell me about what’s going on?
The issue is the apparent despisal of bodybuilding by some of the authors here, which is fine in and of itself until we start to notice there is no counter-opinion to it being voiced at all. A certain diet can not be spoken ill of or else those posts won’t exist for long…in spite of the many newbies jumping on it when they only weigh 150lbs.
Conspiracy? Only if you count not being able to discuss these issues openly as one.[/quote]
I don’t know about conspiracy either, but I sure as hell find it ironic how several authors for an online magazine that proclaims itself “The World’s Largest !!Bodybuilding!! and Weight Loss Underground Nation” are adamantly anti-bodybuilding.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Want to talk about dumb bodybuilders (off of the top of my head):
Ronnie (!!!) graduated cum laude with a degree in accounting
P22 is a nurse
Justin Harris has a BS in exercise science, works as an Echocardiographer and is certified in advanced cardiac life support
Dave Henry works for the Department of Defense (as an engineer?)
Jason Wojo is getting his PHD in Immunology
[/quote]
Wojo has completed his PhD already. Dr. Wojo it is. very impressive physiques in this list.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
…
This is age dependent. Coming from my side of of the age continuum, I rarely do low rep stuff because I see better gains in the 8-12 rep range. I always try to increase my weight if I get more than 12 reps in a set. Low reps and heavy weights are a recipe for injury if you are a member of AARP.
[/quote]
Do you deadlift?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
…
This is age dependent. Coming from my side of of the age continuum, I rarely do low rep stuff because I see better gains in the 8-12 rep range. I always try to increase my weight if I get more than 12 reps in a set. Low reps and heavy weights are a recipe for injury if you are a member of AARP.
Do you deadlift? [/quote]
Rack pulls. SLDL’s. RDL’s. I don’t pull from the floor anymore. The first 12 inches is murder on my back.
Rack pulls give me a decent ROM, and allow me to walk upright when I am done.
I love rack pulls for the erectors.
Probably gonna try drag rack pulls courtesy of the DOGG this week.
Basically think of stripping the paint off the power rack with the bar by dragging it up the frame and kind of leaning away. Hard to explain, but its supposed to be murder on back thickness.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
rainjack wrote:
…
This is age dependent. Coming from my side of of the age continuum, I rarely do low rep stuff because I see better gains in the 8-12 rep range. I always try to increase my weight if I get more than 12 reps in a set. Low reps and heavy weights are a recipe for injury if you are a member of AARP.
Do you deadlift?
Rack pulls. SLDL’s. RDL’s. I don’t pull from the floor anymore. The first 12 inches is murder on my back.
Rack pulls give me a decent ROM, and allow me to walk upright when I am done.
[/quote]
I wish my gym had a power rack. We have a squat rack but it doesn’t work for rack pulls.
I am starting to think higher rep and lower weight might make more sense. I am always getting little nagging injuries.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
IronAssassin wrote:
rainjack wrote:
IronAssassin wrote:
rainjack wrote:
On the topic of rest - sort of:
How long do you rest between sets? 60-90-120 seconds?
I think if I extended my rest periods a little, I could move a lot more weight, but do I want to give my muscles a full rest, or keep them a little fatigued?
I’ve trained to the point where I have a stopwatch for rest sets. And currently I don’t time anything. Depends on the training obviously. Training for a PR or a real heavy set of 5 or less will call for complete rest. But if I’m say, doing a DC Rest-pause set, you got to with the 15 breath thing which will definitely leave you worn out.
All in all, I’ve gotten to the point, and I think most serious guys can do this, where they can gauge how long they need to be able to push an maximal load…and I think you always want to train with as much as possible. Thats one thing I love about DC training principles, you just have that one RP set to train as hard and heavy as physically possible.
As far as DC goes - how long does one rest between body parts?
Long enough to set up for the next set?
Until you get your breath back?
Until you get feeling back in your previously worked body part?
You rest as long as it takes.
For the rest pause set…its
As many reps till failure-15 breaths-a couple more reps to failure-15 breaths-rep till failure.
Thats your one Rest Pause set.
Everything is rest pause except back thickness and quads for safety reasons.
For those you perform one heavy ass set usually 6-8 reps.
Wait as long as you need to recover for another, EVEN HEAVIER, set for generally 4-6 reps.
Rest as long as needed in between body parts or after warm-ups. As long as you can perform your one Rest Pause set with as much weight as possible and fail 3 times total.
Same goes for straight sets on quads and back thickness.
A typical smythe incline for chest might be…
Warm up for a set of 12
Warm up a set of 8
Warm up a set of 4
All of these are non-taxing, and there are no guidelines to how you warm up, just warm up however you need to.
Now for chest if your rep range is 11-15 Rest pause your set my look like…
8reps=failure
take 15 breaths
4reps=failure
take 15 breaths
2reps=failure
You have now performed 14 reps which means you are in your 11-15rp range. Next smythe incline day you would want to up the weight since you were at the top end of your range.
Now I just explained alot…and I’m certainly no expert. But his site has some great stickies about it.
The point is, don’t overthink rest for in between bodyparts. Just take what it needs to perform a maximal set with a maximal load.
Your first sentence answered my question. But thanks for posting up the rest of it - maybe more folks will become interested in DC.
[/quote]
Don’t you straight-set the calves and forearms too?
Calves yes, I forgot about that. Forearms I am not sure. I believe it depends on the excercise. I think its RP if your doing hammer or pinwheel curls but I’m not 100% on that.
I just read the “Invisible Trophies” blog, and I was thinking “I like my real trophies, I put them right next to the tv.”