The Body Weight Factor

Training
101

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]The Rattler wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:
How many more ways can the same question be stated before it gets old? I mean, these threads are on purpose now right? Purposeful shitstorms?[/quote]

X2.

I have just been reading here lately and find it hilarious that this thread has been started. X, surely you knew what response you would get? This topic has been discussed over and over again yet you STILL think it needs discussing?! [/quote]

worst post

this shit never gets old

let’s all pray to jesus this thread reaches 50 pages[/quote]

You get old, quickly

102

[quote]dt79 wrote:
For some reason, it seems in real life, most people that i’ve observed DO fall on 2 ends of the spectrum, even in this day and age where there is so much more info on the net compared to 10 years ago.

  1. The newer guys that i see constantly improving in size and strength are those that do not count macros or micros or whatever. They hit the weights with the standard pyramid with the main intent of getting stronger while adding in extra meals on top of what they have been eating prior to lifting. The only program discussions i’ve heard from them recently was about the OLD GVT.

  2. The ones that do count carbs, protein etc are those that can also name all the latest peri, pre post workout drinks and have tried all the latest programs. These guys are the ones that don’t progress much.
    [/quote]

I agree that you have way too many newbs who while they obsess about various supplements, and can usually recite their favorite IFBB Pro’s workout program from memory, miss the boat in that they don’t understand the role of food, or the actual theory behind training methodologies. That doesn’t mean that because they focused more on minor details such as actually tracking what they’re doing that they won’t experience better gains.

What it really means is that they missed out on what they should be focusing on. I forgot who mentioned this in the first couple of pages of the thread, but a sound base of the why’s of training, and the why’s and how’s of eating are what’s needed. Not a simple ‘eat big, lift big’, or a “write everything down” approach.

Sadly, your observation of this day and age is due to the internet, supplement sales, and the need for instant gratification that comes from packing on 5-10 lbs in a month’s time (“bro, I’m hyooge!” -lol)

S

103

[quote]cally wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]The Rattler wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:
How many more ways can the same question be stated before it gets old? I mean, these threads are on purpose now right? Purposeful shitstorms?[/quote]

X2.

I have just been reading here lately and find it hilarious that this thread has been started. X, surely you knew what response you would get? This topic has been discussed over and over again yet you STILL think it needs discussing?! [/quote]

worst post

this shit never gets old

let’s all pray to jesus this thread reaches 50 pages[/quote]

You get old, quickly
[/quote]

good post.

104

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed?

105

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]The Rattler wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:
How many more ways can the same question be stated before it gets old? I mean, these threads are on purpose now right? Purposeful shitstorms?[/quote]

X2.

I have just been reading here lately and find it hilarious that this thread has been started. X, surely you knew what response you would get? This topic has been discussed over and over again yet you STILL think it needs discussing?! [/quote]

worst post

this shit never gets old

let’s all pray to jesus this thread reaches 50 pages[/quote]

You get old, quickly
[/quote]

good post. [/quote]
lol

I kinda hate myself for finding yolo’s posts so hilarious lately…

106

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

Don’t you think it can be finally summed up to this:

  1. If you like being full house or have some absolute strength goal, then be full house!
  2. If you’re more physique and weight conscious, say for appearance, bodybuilding competition, or sports performance, then keep your body composition where it needs to be.
    [/quote]

And weeks and weeks of arguing, plus multiple threads on the same thing, and a brand new forum (which is the same shit as the old forum) can be boiled down to this simple statement.

You like being 8% year round? Cool - have at it.

You don’t care about your BF percentage? Cool - have at it.

Seems pretty easy…

107

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

I’m still somewhat new to the lifting game but I agree with usmcc. The numbers the original poster put up in my opinion are a bit above average. Not elite in any way but def a little above average, especially from only 1-2 years training. Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t train in a gym with any elite lifters but I would like to believe those are a bit above average. I mean I remember an article on here talking about how rare a 315 bench was. Idk the exact stats but if I remember correctly in relation to the article a guy benching 3 plates in 1-2 years of training is def above average.

108

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

I’m still somewhat new to the lifting game but I agree with usmcc. The numbers the original poster put up in my opinion are a bit above average. Not elite in any way but def a little above average, especially from only 1-2 years training. Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t train in a gym with any elite lifters but I would like to believe those are a bit above average. I mean I remember an article on here talking about how rare a 315 bench was. Idk the exact stats but if I remember correctly in relation to the article a guy benching 3 plates in 1-2 years of training is def above average. [/quote]

It’s all about perspective. There are guys on here that are serious powerlifter for example. So to them a guy pulling 5 plates is below average in their gym, but that’s not average at all.

Those of use that do this as a hobby (like 99% of us) strive to reach 5/4/3 #'s. I know I am.

109

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms.

110

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms. [/quote]

Agreed. I am not here to shit on anyone else’s progress…but it sure seems that is what most of these other people are here for.

I created this thread to discuss the topic I presented.

if you don’t like that topic or think it has been discussed too much, why would you post here just to say that?

No, I am not going to debate with 5-10 people all at the same time just because some of you seem to ONLY try to literally shit on anything I post lately.

Some of you are becoming straight up assholes shitting on other people’s progress.

That is not what I am here for.

To the people who thanked me, you are welcome. Post more and help change these boards from this current tripe.

111

[quote]The Rattler wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:
How many more ways can the same question be stated before it gets old? I mean, these threads are on purpose now right? Purposeful shitstorms?[/quote]

X2.

I have just been reading here lately and find it hilarious that this thread has been started. X, surely you knew what response you would get? This topic has been discussed over and over again yet you STILL think it needs discussing?! [/quote]

Every topic here has been discussed over and over. Bodybuilding and weight lifting isn’t even about finding all new ways to do shit.

Unless you are doing the same whining about old topics in every other thread that has ever been discussed before, why would you shit on this thread?

Discuss the topic…or don’t post in the thread. Anything else is trolling.

112

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

My personal goal is not to have all eyes turn to me when I walk into a room. If you feel that’s a reason why I should post less and contribute fewer articles, I think it speaks more of you than me, sorry man.[/quote]

I never said you should post less. I said you turning a post about my goals into some claim of “immaturity” is biased. I didn’t do that to you, so why do it to me and my goals?

Some would consider the goals of MOST of us to be vain and lacking of substance. To agree with that would be disingenuous to the fact that many of us wold be considered nearly insane by the general population.

113

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms. [/quote]

Absolutely, this forum could be very helpful to the average lifter if we can just avoid posts like this. The original poster was obviously proud of what he’s accomplished, rightly so, and then Stronghold, whom I also respect as a posted, had to add a comment that’s only purpose was to down play the other guys accomplishments. It’s uncalled for, imo.

Remember this is essentially the weight lifting hobby forum, not the powerlifting, bodybuilding, or Olympic lifting forum. If the original post had been in any of these forums, criticize as you see fit, but not here. It doesn’t fit this forums purpose.

@ Stronghold, if you happen to read this, I’m using your post as an example because it’s the most recent one like this I’ve read. It’s nothing against you personally and I doubt you mean’t anything personal by your comment.

114

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
X, because you seem to not be willing or able to provide specific nutrition recommendations for gaining for noobs, can you tell us what you’d have intermediates do, say people who’ve been lifting for six months or more and have now stalled? [/quote]

I would not make SPECIFIC nutrition recommendations without looking at and following the individual and his/her progress. Anything else is baseless pseudoscience in action. I would not diagnose a patient without walking into the clinic first, so why would I make specific recommendations without knowing the trainer or seeing them and knowing what they are doing and eating now?

[quote]

Like, say for example, what do we do with this guy?

185 pounds
5’10"
17% bodyfat

He’s got somewhat of a clue to do with nutrition, but it’s not nailed down yet. From a food diary we see he eats an average of 3,000 calories per day, but he’s got no solid macronutrient percentage allotment, his protein intake is all over the place, and the fats and carbs he eats aren’t always the best quality.

He’s like you; he doesn’t want to become obese, but isn’t so fussy about seeing his abs all the time; wants to put up some big numbers, maybe even do some powerlifting meets; and have people move out of the way when they see him coming.

What do you recommend for:

  1. Caloric amount and carb, protein, and fat allotment.
  2. Food choices.
  3. Any cardio or conditioning recommendations to keep fat gain to a minimum and to make it easier when coming down? Frequency and amount? Or do you think cardio should be done away with when gaining?
  4. What should he do for all three of the above when he wants to trim down?

Also, because we’re talking about noobs, and you won’t provide specific nutrition guidelines (because you feel those guidelines should be provided after some time in the gym to the noob), what’s your recommended five day split for noobs being this is the training frequency you recommend for noobs? Bodypart split? Upper-lower several times per week? Why not full body sessions learning just a few basic lifts like bench, row, overhead press, squats, and deadlifts (similar to Bill Starr 5 x 5, Starting Strength, or Jim Wendler’s noobie full body 531 suggestion)? [/quote]

Once again, you base what you do on the results you get. You don’t come up with what to do FIRST without basing it on the progress made.

I have explained this to ad nauseum.

115

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
“I think highly unlikely there will be an advantage in muscular gain compared to a less extreme approach.”
I guess this is where the factors come in. I mean if a 6’2 guy is starting out at 140lbs I strongly believe he should focus on gaining a pound per week and progressing in his main lifts and he will see greater results than worrying about leanness. Granted his diet isn’t entirely shit. When I gained weight I honestly didnt get to a noticeable level of bf until I hit 195lbs. But if the guy is 6’ 200 to begin with then I believe he could put less emphasis on adding weight and more on getting stronger with weight gain as a side effect. So many factors man [/quote]

Agreed. This is the point of this topic…because as you can see, there are people who get this…and then there are people ONLY in this thread to throw insults and tear people down.

116

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

Agreed! I was disappointed to see this from a member I generally repsect.
If you train at a college gym where the athletes train maybe…but not average in commercial gyms, not average in most private gyms. [/quote]

Absolutely, this forum could be very helpful to the average lifter if we can just avoid posts like this. The original poster was obviously proud of what he’s accomplished, rightly so, and then Stronghold, whom I also respect as a posted, had to add a comment that’s only purpose was to down play the other guys accomplishments. It’s uncalled for, imo.

Remember this is essentially the weight lifting hobby forum, not the powerlifting, bodybuilding, or Olympic lifting forum. If the original post had been in any of these forums, criticize as you see fit, but not here. It doesn’t fit this forums purpose.

@ Stronghold, if you happen to read this, I’m using your post as an example because it’s the most recent one like this I’ve read. It’s nothing against you personally and I doubt you mean’t anything personal by your comment. [/quote]

We should ALL be wanting that type of useless attitude gone from these forums.

Spending 30 pages complaining because I started a topic but NOT complaining when posters literally shit on the progress of other people is ridiculous.

If you are NOT in this thread to discuss the topic, please stop ruining the discussion for the rest of us.

…and more than anything, quit laughing at the progress other people make.

117

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Not to rain on your parade too much, but those average numbers in my experience for most young (late teens-early 20’s) guys in their first year or 2 of training regardless of whether they gained 30+ (you didn’t specify whether or not you were still dieting) lbs of fat to go with it or not.
[/quote]

I always love reading posts like this. These numbers are not average. They are not elite, but average, I don’t think so. Most 18-22 year olds are deadlifting in the 3’s, maybe squating in the 3’s, and likely benching in the mid 2’s. Just because in your experience 5/4/3 D/S/B is average doesn’t actually make it average.

What is even the point of your post, to point out how much better the average lifter is than the guy you addressed? [/quote]

I’m still somewhat new to the lifting game but I agree with usmcc. The numbers the original poster put up in my opinion are a bit above average. Not elite in any way but def a little above average, especially from only 1-2 years training. Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t train in a gym with any elite lifters but I would like to believe those are a bit above average. I mean I remember an article on here talking about how rare a 315 bench was. Idk the exact stats but if I remember correctly in relation to the article a guy benching 3 plates in 1-2 years of training is def above average. [/quote]

It’s all about perspective. There are guys on here that are serious powerlifter for example. So to them a guy pulling 5 plates is below average in their gym, but that’s not average at all.

Those of use that do this as a hobby (like 99% of us) strive to reach 5/4/3 #'s. I know I am. [/quote]

This started as a hobby for me but now I want to eventually be a powerlifter and even more so an S&C coach. Haha so maybe then for my situation those lifts are below average

118

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Gains in bodyweight don’t always correlate to bigger muscles because even adding solely fat can lead to bigger lifts. [/quote]

hey…and if someone is getting bigger lifts, you think this does NOT translate to bigger muscles and more strength gains?

119

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I’m gonna chime in here for the sake of discussion and hopefully learning something. I understand that gaining body weight and having tha correlate to a stronger lift doesn’t necessarily mean it was a muscular gain. However, say you gain a reasonable amount of body weight and your deaift goes up considerabley. Even if most of that body weight gain was fat couldn’t you make the argument that by being stronger and your body adapting to heavier weights on both a muscular and neural system level you would have put yourself in a better position to increase muscle mass? The hard part about this discussion is there are so many factors.[/quote]

You have it right.

120

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
it’s just a continuation of X’s constant writing about how the way HE accomplished his goals are the way everyone should approach theirs
S[/quote]

This wasn’t stated or implied at all. I even made a very BLATANT distinction and mentioned someone with all out goals of being HUGE…not just the average trainer in the gym or even on this site.

This has nothing to do with how EVERYONE should approach their training.

How is it some seem to understand this very well…and the same group seems to be unable to get it and ONLY seems to post to tell me how horrible I am apparently?

The guy training to look like an underwear model should NOT approach training like the guy who wants 20" arms and has a chance in hell of getting there or wants to be in a range of strength and size that many would consider “elite”.

Bottom line.