[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
He was mentioning what is seen in overweight and obese people.[/quote]
Overweight, as in, carrying more body fat than is optimal yet not quite enough to be considered obese.
Are you implying many “full housers” aren’t at a high enough body fat to qualify for this label? Or many of the people on this forum bulking up right now?
But, in case you missed my clarification: fasting plasma NEFA has been seen to be significantly and positively correlated not only with body fat percentage, but also surrogate markers of adiposity (waist circumference, waist-hip ratio, sum skinfold thickness, etc.)
So, if you can manage to keep up without relying on ONLY the obese, we can move forward, though just to be clear I am completely certain you were talking out of you ass with the “studies we’ve seen” comment.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Once again, I made the point that we are discussing trained individuals.[/quote]
We already agree that OBESITY can cause hormonal changes alone.[/quote]
Look. We already know about the biochemical and endocrine aspects of fat tissue; numerous examples have been given in this thread. We also know that most (not all) of these biochemical and endocrine aspects have negative effects on insulin sensitivity, and have defined various mechanisms by which they exert their effects. We also know that these negative biochemical and endocrine aspects are strongly correlated with adipose tissue in a positive fashion.
Are you arguing against this? If not, then what?
You already agree that obesity leads to hormonal changes yet don’t want to admit that we ALSO know being overweight does, as well (overweight people aren’t free from T2D or insulin resistance, and the prevalence of these conditions is seen to decrease alongside BMI/body fat). Do you feel there is some “line in the sand” where, if you’re on one side, you are A-OK, but once you step over… blammo! Obesity! Hormonal changes!
Do you genuinely not feel that there is a sliding scale here, that this sort of thing doesn’t just crop up past a certain threshold but rather develops insidiously over years of increasing fat gain?
You argue about “trained” athletes… so, OK: for any individual athlete at a given level of largely immutable daily activity and behavior, do you honestly feel that no change WHATSOEVER in his/her insulin sensitivity could be quantitatively determined if he/she went from full house to lean? Forget moving from clinical disorder to healthful state, because from what I remember all those big guys who leaned out and reported better results were never diseased to begin with… they just optimized their sensitivity.
If you DO feel that there is some specific point where it all goes to shit… then, let’s here where you think it is. If you don’t, then I really can’t see how you can argue against the benefits of dropping body fat on insulin sensitivity, not just because the literature shows improved metrics coinciding with decreased BMI/body fat, but also because numerous successful and respected posters have shared their documented evidence as well as their personal and professional anecdotes attesting to this.
Ya know what? Let’s not bother moving forward. This thread sucks.[/quote]
Post Coitus
