The Body Weight Factor

Training
841

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]cueball wrote:
We’ve heard from several in the “I like being leaner” camp about the pros and cons with their experience carrying extra weight vs being leaner. You’ve shared your pros about carrying extra weight, do you have any cons? Anything negative you experience day to day?

[/quote]

I’m the first to admit, if I thought I could keep my ‘ideal lean physique’ and still make strength AND size gains, I would certainly do that. I honestly don’t give a shit about that if my numbers are moving the way I want them. That’s not to say I don’t try to keep it in check to the best that I can.

[/quote]

Maybe you could expand on this a bit for us. Is there a specific reason you think you CAN’T keep your ideal lean physique and make strength and size gains? Is it something you tried in the past and didn’t pan out?

[/quote]

Sure.

I’m old.

I don’t have the hormonal profile of a 20-something. Eating enough calories that I know I’m progressing is ‘safe’, even if it means I carry some extra weight.

Whenever I start to lose weight, my arms are the first thing to flatten and my bench goes down. I’m willing to admit that the arm thing is more mental than not, but what is real is the lack of pump and set endurance that I feel. 1-3 RM drops as well.

I see this often when I travel for work a week or two at a time. In fact, that business travel has been my method of ‘brakes’. I’m forced to 3 meals per day and some snacks/shakes on most business trips. Usually omelette breakfasts, chicken ceasar salads, and steak dinners. I typically drop some scale weight temporarily (probably just water). The meals are cleaner by necessity, but the total cals are never there and it takes a week to catch up.

It’s not that I think I can’t, it’s at this point, I’m not willing to sacrifice my lifts by going on an all out cut.

I have managed to recomp a bit however slowly. My weight hasn’t changed too much over the course of a year, but my arms are noticeably bigger (by tighter sleeves), more vascularity, and increased lifts. Otherwise, clothes a little looser, etc.

I think it has more to do with adding more work in the form of cardio and sled than anything.

For myself, I FIRMLY believe that I do better physically – that’s physique and strength – by doing more than eating less. Of course there is a point of diminishing returns there as you can only do so much and recover so fast, right? I haven’t hit that yet.

One of the biggest changes was dropping whey shakes. I use them sparingly now opting to get protein from whole foods versus the quick shake. That has made a huge impact.

I would never claim that my way is the best way for anyone, but it’s working for me within the error brackets I’ve set for myself. I set specific goals to hit over small intervals and as long as I’m hitting those I see no need to change the formula. That’s not to say I couldn’t do the same by leaning out or using some other approach, but it’s working for me.

You have kids? There’s a rule-- when the baby is asleep, don’t do anything different that wakes the baby. If you’re banging on pots and pans, and the baby is sleeping, keep banging the damn pans because if you stop, the silence may wake the baby.

I’m cool with continuing to bang the pans right now.
[/quote]

Awesome. My question was just more out of curiosity than anything else.

I certainly think it benefits people differently. In the past, I’ve tried “letting loose” for a while and really trying to bring up my lifts and bodyweight. Every time though, My lifts just sorta stalled out and I could tell I wasn’t gaining much more than fat. I thought “eh, just hit a plateau, keep on truckin’ and you’ll push through it”. Never happened and I just got fatter.

I was up to 240 and finally said forget it. I just don’t think my body can go that route. So finally in my late 30’s, I’ve decided to try it the other way. I’ve slowly worked my way through 2 years of dropping the weight and trying to redo my whole approach. I have certainly noticed my body as a whole functions better without the bulk.

I have two kids. And that rule should never be broken. I think maybe I banged on the pans a little too loud for my kids.

842

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

Now, having said that, I dropped 50 lbs in 12 weeks and another 20 in the following 12. I probably “did it wrong”, but was relatively easy to do. Much easier than 4 years of pushing lifts upward. That’s just me.

[/quote]

Hey SteelyD

I could be wrong here, but if I’m not mistaken you don’t count calories, and go based on feel? Mind going into a little bit more detail in terms of how you dropped the weight? What type of changes did you make in terms of your diet? Training - higher reps, more drop sets, if anything at all? You mentioned you added more sleds, how often? Feel free to add any info you feel contributed the most.

843

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

Now, having said that, I dropped 50 lbs in 12 weeks and another 20 in the following 12. I probably “did it wrong”, but was relatively easy to do. Much easier than 4 years of pushing lifts upward. That’s just me.

[/quote]

Just to comment on this, I think the difference lies in dropping weight vs dropping weight to get lean, there is a major difference. Dropping weight for me was easier than building it up in the first place, for sure, but I haven’t been able to get lean, either.

You do you, brah.

844

[quote]Ironfreak wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

Now, having said that, I dropped 50 lbs in 12 weeks and another 20 in the following 12. I probably “did it wrong”, but was relatively easy to do. Much easier than 4 years of pushing lifts upward. That’s just me.

[/quote]

Hey SteelyD

I could be wrong here, but if I’m not mistaken you don’t count calories, and go based on feel? Mind going into a little bit more detail in terms of how you dropped the weight? What type of changes did you make in terms of your diet? Training - higher reps, more drop sets, if anything at all? You mentioned you added more sleds, how often? Feel free to add any info you feel contributed the most.[/quote]

I don’t count calories, but I did long enough to know about where I am within a couple hundred either way. I don’t measure my food per se, but I know when I eat say 6 eggs and 1.5 lbs of steak (plus EVOO or coconut oil) and vegetables or a 8 oz potato about where I am on average. Some days I eat more if I’m hungry, some less.

If I wanted to really dial in, it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch.

I dropped the weight before I decided to start training for heavy. All cardio and high rep weights. Toward the end and in ‘maintenance’ I was doing the CT/Cosgrove/Alessi full body complexes and stuff. That was good. Switched to bodypart splits to get mah swolz.

These days, a few days of StepMill, BW squats between sets on some days, more walking in general. It’s been snowy all winter so I’ll bust the sled out again soon. I just try to move a little faster between sets.

Again, I’m just doing some tweaking to stay ahead of it right now, no real commitment to dropping significant weight. When I commit, I’ll commit.

845

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

Now, having said that, I dropped 50 lbs in 12 weeks and another 20 in the following 12. I probably “did it wrong”, but was relatively easy to do. Much easier than 4 years of pushing lifts upward. That’s just me.

[/quote]

Just to comment on this, I think the difference lies in dropping weight vs dropping weight to get lean, there is a major difference. Dropping weight for me was easier than building it up in the first place, for sure, but I haven’t been able to get lean, either.

You do you, brah. [/quote]

I don’t disagree at all. Look at my “170#” pics-- I’m not shredded. Massive 14.25" skinny fat arms. My goal wasn’t “shredded”. My goal was drop scale weight and beat high cholesterol, which I did. Even back to a not lean 275 through eating big and lifting heavy my cholesterol has stablized.

I’m in no rush to lean down quickly like I did before. Slow and easy is just fine.

I do me and you do you.

846

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
TLDR;
Fat boy want chee’burger.[/quote]

And you can have it for the solid post.

I didn’t mean for it to sound confrontational or judgmental to those who choose to carry a little more bulk than others here prefer… because I really don’t care about what someone’s personal preference for their approach, with their body, happens to be.

What has totally jumped the shark, however, is the relentless carpet bombing of thread after thread with bullheaded opinions that consistently, condescendingly and unapologetically dismiss the input of RESPECTED and ACCOMPLISHED lifters with flippant remarks about how you can’t PROVE that dropping weight (outside of an obese/overweight state) actually improves sensitivity because there is no biochemical equation for inputting X fat to get Y IR… or to even dedicate thousands and thousands of posts braying on and on about how “getting lean is quick and easy”, despite never having truly done it yourself, while ignoring the fact that the people who SAY, “yes, being leaner DOES make a difference” have actually been where you are before forming their opinion.

One of those “rule of thumbs” that get tossed around the BB forum is that experience trumps academia. What is meant by that isn’t that science is useless to weight lifters, but that no one should really care what kind of alphabet soup someone has after thier name, how many palatal expanders they adjust on a daily basis or how much gum they routinely floss out of braces if they have never walked the walk themselves or gotten anyone else to an impressive degree of development with their theories.

SO, if someone has only gotten halfway there (gotten bigger/heftier but not big/leaner), then who is he to dismiss the opinions of other dangerously intelligent and accomplished (read: not just “accomplished”, but “more accomplished that himself”) posters/coaches who not only went the distance themselves, but drew maps and shepherded others along the way, as well? PARTICULARLY when it is supposedly “so easy” to make that change see?

Here’s another “rule of thumb”: bro science is better than no science. When the scientific literature isn’t sufficient to provide any real clue, YES it is OK to defer to the “in the trenches” experiences of top-level coaches and bodybuilders who found what works for themselves and others through trial and error while waiting for the petri-pushing pencil necks move from cell cultures to mice to the elderly/sickly to the “average Joe” to the children to “athletes” to… well, they never really seem to get to serious bodybuilders, do they?

Shit, isn’t that why your gas-pumping juice monkey is more knowledgeable about the theory and practice of steroid use (for both performance AND health reasons) than your average MD? Why weight lifters laughed so hard they puked ketones when they heard the “breaking news” that swept the scientific community regarding the potential benefits of modulating carbohydrate intake or keeping protein on the higher side?

We don’t need to wait for the geek squad to get around to FINALLY ushering bodybuilders into the laboratory under the sterilized and controlled vacuum of a “rigorous experiment”… because WE are bodybuilders and our bodies ARE the lab and we do this shit while living in the real world.

Those are the people who find out what actually works… it’s the job of the PhDs to figure out why that happens to be. Does staying leaner increase the rate of gains due to increased insulin sensitivity? Maybe. Maybe not. But then, that doesn’t change the fact that these top-level posters almost UNANIMOUSLY report better results from staying lean. So, they might lose the battle regarding insulin sensitivity, but they win the war regardingthe importance of regulating body fat for a successful bulk.

But, to get back on track, YOU are not the problem. I take NO ISSUE whatsoever with your approach and I genuinely don’t think you are “taking the easy way out” by slacking on your diet or whatever. I truly get where you are coming from and I have NO problem with it. You are intelligent, humble, respectful and downright beastly. You= are a major asset to this site and a great kisser, to boot. So, to repeat: the issue I have is, simply put, when this forum turns into the laughingstock of the interweb due to meltdown after meltdown and hijack after hijack… all because people rabidly defend THEIR approach as “THE” approach, all the while being completely oblivious to their educational/experiential limitations because everything external to their ego turns to white noise from all the condescension, volume, frequency, and self-congratulatory dementia in their posts.

847

And, to be clear again: I ain’t even mad. ADHD meds just let whoever edits DBCooper’s train of thought for brevity skull fuck me before every post.

848

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I am asking for those who got big to speak up on how they did it also.

[/quote]

let’s hear it X

849

[quote]Andrewdwatters1 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I am asking for those who got big to speak up on how they did it also.

[/quote]

let’s hear it X
[/quote]

He ain’t big. He has straw man legs. The way he drools on these forums you’d think he was an ifbb pro.

850

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
TLDR;
Fat boy want chee’burger.[/quote]

And you can have it for the solid post.

I didn’t mean for it to sound confrontational or judgmental to those who choose to carry a little more bulk than others here prefer… because I really don’t care about what someone’s personal preference for their approach, with their body, happens to be.

What has totally jumped the shark, however, is the relentless carpet bombing of thread after thread with bullheaded opinions that consistently, condescendingly and unapologetically dismiss the input of RESPECTED and ACCOMPLISHED lifters with flippant remarks about how you can’t PROVE that dropping weight (outside of an obese/overweight state) actually improves sensitivity because there is no biochemical equation for inputting X fat to get Y IR… or to even dedicate thousands and thousands of posts braying on and on about how “getting lean is quick and easy”, despite never having truly done it yourself, while ignoring the fact that the people who SAY, “yes, being leaner DOES make a difference” have actually been where you are before forming their opinion.

One of those “rule of thumbs” that get tossed around the BB forum is that experience trumps academia. What is meant by that isn’t that science is useless to weight lifters, but that no one should really care what kind of alphabet soup someone has after thier name, how many palatal expanders they adjust on a daily basis or how much gum they routinely floss out of braces if they have never walked the walk themselves or gotten anyone else to an impressive degree of development with their theories.

SO, if someone has only gotten halfway there (gotten bigger/heftier but not big/leaner), then who is he to dismiss the opinions of other dangerously intelligent and accomplished (read: not just “accomplished”, but “more accomplished that himself”) posters/coaches who not only went the distance themselves, but drew maps and shepherded others along the way, as well? PARTICULARLY when it is supposedly “so easy” to make that change see?

Here’s another “rule of thumb”: bro science is better than no science. When the scientific literature isn’t sufficient to provide any real clue, YES it is OK to defer to the “in the trenches” experiences of top-level coaches and bodybuilders who found what works for themselves and others through trial and error while waiting for the petri-pushing pencil necks move from cell cultures to mice to the elderly/sickly to the “average Joe” to the children to “athletes” to… well, they never really seem to get to serious bodybuilders, do they?

Shit, isn’t that why your gas-pumping juice monkey is more knowledgeable about the theory and practice of steroid use (for both performance AND health reasons) than your average MD? Why weight lifters laughed so hard they puked ketones when they heard the “breaking news” that swept the scientific community regarding the potential benefits of modulating carbohydrate intake or keeping protein on the higher side?

We don’t need to wait for the geek squad to get around to FINALLY ushering bodybuilders into the laboratory under the sterilized and controlled vacuum of a “rigorous experiment”… because WE are bodybuilders and our bodies ARE the lab and we do this shit while living in the real world.

Those are the people who find out what actually works… it’s the job of the PhDs to figure out why that happens to be. Does staying leaner increase the rate of gains due to increased insulin sensitivity? Maybe. Maybe not. But then, that doesn’t change the fact that these top-level posters almost UNANIMOUSLY report better results from staying lean. So, they might lose the battle regarding insulin sensitivity, but they win the war regardingthe importance of regulating body fat for a successful bulk.

But, to get back on track, YOU are not the problem. I take NO ISSUE whatsoever with your approach and I genuinely don’t think you are “taking the easy way out” by slacking on your diet or whatever. I truly get where you are coming from and I have NO problem with it. You are intelligent, humble, respectful and downright beastly. You= are a major asset to this site and a great kisser, to boot. So, to repeat: the issue I have is, simply put, when this forum turns into the laughingstock of the interweb due to meltdown after meltdown and hijack after hijack… all because people rabidly defend THEIR approach as “THE” approach, all the while being completely oblivious to their educational/experiential limitations because everything external to their ego turns to white noise from all the condescension, volume, frequency, and self-congratulatory dementia in their posts.[/quote]

BOOM

Anonym is my new favourite poster

851

[quote]anonym wrote:
So, to repeat: the issue I have is, simply put, when this forum turns into the laughingstock of the interweb due to meltdown after meltdown and hijack after hijack… all because people rabidly defend THEIR approach as “THE” approach, all the while being completely oblivious to their educational/experiential limitations because everything external to their ego turns to white noise from all the condescension, volume, frequency, and self-congratulatory dementia in their posts.[/quote]

Goodyest Postalus

S

852

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

For all their talk about how “getting lean is the easy part because it can be done in just a few months time”, you’d think perma-bulkers would just fucking sack up, take 12 weeks, lose the spare weight, and find out FOR THEMSELVES rather than [/quote]

If it’s not their goal, it’s not their goal.

Listen to the tone of your post. Such disdain for “perma-bulkers”. Is your pedestal made of gold? What makes you superior?

I’m not trying to sound aggressive or offensive, it’s hard to convey tone in a forum post versus actually hearing me speak it, but can you understand how your post and other’s like it, sounds cliquish and high-and-mighty? Were you one of the bullies in school who made fun of fat kids? Nerds? That’s what this board is full of.

Now, having said that, I dropped 50 lbs in 12 weeks and another 20 in the following 12. I probably “did it wrong”, but was relatively easy to do. Much easier than 4 years of pushing lifts upward. That’s just me.

Everyone is different, wouldn’t you agree? Wouldn’t you agree that for some people who want to make their body much larger than it is, or add 100’s of pounds to their lifts might take some years versus some weeks? Sure, there are lazy lifters who languish in the gym for years lifting the same weights, eating pizza and ice cream, but who cares?

Why is thrust upon some to judge?

This happened to me some months ago: Sitting on an airplane in delay for repairs, 2nd row. Pilot is standing there chatting. He looks at me sitting there in normal clothes (sorry, not naked or abs) and he says “The mechanics just called-- they need you to bench press the plane up because the jack is broken”. We continued to talk about training for a few minutes.

Dude, that was totally worth magnitudes more than being called fat and weak on T-Nation. I’ll be permabulker all day every day for conversation starters like that. Maybe the 180 lb guy next to me was the 29th best powerlifter in the whole wide world and could lift, like, 9000, but he wasn’t the conversation starter. That’s not my motivation to lift, but it’s a cool by-product for sure.

TLDR;
Fat boy want chee’burger.[/quote]

Brilliant post.

853

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Steely, you’re right tone is hard to judge from written text, but I really didn’t get the judgmental tone from Anonym’s post that you did.[/quote]

Oh, I didn’t mean the post per se, but just the constant reference to “the permabulkers” (you know, like “the jews”, “the fatties”, “the gays”, …). It sets the tone for the entire discussion, especially those who are in the ‘lean camp’. Then anyone who is not 10% (whatever that means) is suddenly somehow inferior. I’m exaggerating a little, but you get the point.

Oh, the horror of ‘permabulking’:

We should all be so fat and weak. If only he dropped 30 lbs …[/quote]

Again, perfect.

854

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Oh, I didn’t mean the post per se, but just the constant reference to “the permabulkers” (you know, like “the jews”, “the fatties”, “the gays”, …). It sets the tone for the entire discussion, especially those who are in the ‘lean camp’.[/quote]

I understand where you’re coming from, but there is definitely disdain from both camps. Permabulkers look down on the lean guys who don’t look like they lift wearing an XXXXL shirt, and the ripped guys laugh at how fat the guys over 15% are.

obviously I’m exaggerating but so it goes. Not that you ever judge Steely, you’re a good lad.

I think it’s the context of the thread that’s bad, not the discussion itself. Had Anonym made the same post in a more civil thread I bet there’d have been no inferences made.

Let’s all just agree we want to look like Simeon Panda. Massive and ripped. Yes please.[/quote]

Just to make it clear, I have no disdain at all for someone who chooses to make their body fat percentage top priority. I had a problem with people acting like that is the “best way” or that simply carrying less body fat improves insulin sensitivity when it relies on many more variables like diet, activity level and overall conditioning.

I have a problem with people acting like the guys who did bulk up somehow did it wrong…when they seem to be some of the most muscular guys here…and in regards to someone having the goal of being one of the biggest, they should probably do what built the most really big people.

If someone doesn’t even want to get that big then they aren’t even the target audience.

I think you are reading the sentiment incorrectly.

855

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

Now, having said that, I dropped 50 lbs in 12 weeks and another 20 in the following 12. I probably “did it wrong”, but was relatively easy to do. Much easier than 4 years of pushing lifts upward. That’s just me.

[/quote]

Just to comment on this, I think the difference lies in dropping weight vs dropping weight to get lean, there is a major difference. Dropping weight for me was easier than building it up in the first place, for sure, but I haven’t been able to get lean, either.

You do you, brah. [/quote]

I don’t disagree at all. Look at my “170#” pics-- I’m not shredded. Massive 14.25" skinny fat arms. My goal wasn’t “shredded”. My goal was drop scale weight and beat high cholesterol, which I did. Even back to a not lean 275 through eating big and lifting heavy my cholesterol has stablized.

I’m in no rush to lean down quickly like I did before. Slow and easy is just fine.

I do me and you do you.
[/quote]

Again good post. Many of us have no desire to be “super ripped”. I am working on getting leaner now but couldn’t care less about ever being “contest condition”.

If you dropped weight that easily, it is hard to argue that gaining the muscle is harder than leaning up. I know I dropped 4" off my waist in less than 3 months. It didn’t take much…

856

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

Now, having said that, I dropped 50 lbs in 12 weeks and another 20 in the following 12. I probably “did it wrong”, but was relatively easy to do. Much easier than 4 years of pushing lifts upward. That’s just me.

[/quote]

Just to comment on this, I think the difference lies in dropping weight vs dropping weight to get lean, there is a major difference. Dropping weight for me was easier than building it up in the first place, for sure, but I haven’t been able to get lean, either.

You do you, brah. [/quote]

I don’t disagree at all. Look at my “170#” pics-- I’m not shredded. Massive 14.25" skinny fat arms. My goal wasn’t “shredded”. My goal was drop scale weight and beat high cholesterol, which I did. Even back to a not lean 275 through eating big and lifting heavy my cholesterol has stablized.

I’m in no rush to lean down quickly like I did before. Slow and easy is just fine.

I do me and you do you.
[/quote]

Again good post. Many of us have no desire to be “super ripped”. I am working on getting leaner now but couldn’t care less about ever being “contest condition”.

If you dropped weight that easily, it is hard to argue that gaining the muscle is harder than leaning up. I know I dropped 4" off my waist in less than 3 months. It didn’t take much…[/quote]

Again, it is pretty easy to lose weight, it’s very difficult to get very lean (not even referring to contest condition).

That being said, I’m kinda over the whole thing at this point. I’m with Steely, we all just need to STFU and lift.

857

[quote]Professor X wrote:

For all their talk about how “getting lean is the easy part because it can be done in just a few months time”, you’d think perma-bulkers would just fucking sack up, take 12 weeks, lose the spare weight, and find out FOR THEMSELVES rather than [/quote]

I found this a little disrespectful. I know Steely has dropped weight and I did it and posted all pictures in about 2 and a half months. I didn’t get “ripped”…but I am leaner than that now and will be leaner than this by summer.

I am not sure why you seem to think some of us have never dieted down or ever planned to.

Also, what “spare tire”?

858

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Oh, I didn’t mean the post per se, but just the constant reference to “the permabulkers” (you know, like “the jews”, “the fatties”, “the gays”, …). It sets the tone for the entire discussion, especially those who are in the ‘lean camp’.[/quote]

I understand where you’re coming from, but there is definitely disdain from both camps. Permabulkers look down on the lean guys who don’t look like they lift wearing an XXXXL shirt, and the ripped guys laugh at how fat the guys over 15% are.

obviously I’m exaggerating but so it goes. Not that you ever judge Steely, you’re a good lad.

I think it’s the context of the thread that’s bad, not the discussion itself. Had Anonym made the same post in a more civil thread I bet there’d have been no inferences made.

Let’s all just agree we want to look like Simeon Panda. Massive and ripped. Yes please.[/quote]

Just to make it clear, I have no disdain at all for someone who chooses to make their body fat percentage top priority. I had a problem with people acting like that is the “best way” or that simply carrying less body fat improves insulin sensitivity when it relies on many more variables like diet, activity level and overall conditioning.

I have a problem with people acting like the guys who did bulk up somehow did it wrong…when they seem to be some of the most muscular guys here…and in regards to someone having the goal of being one of the biggest, they should probably do what built the most really big people.

If someone doesn’t even want to get that big then they aren’t even the target audience.

I think you are reading the sentiment incorrectly.[/quote]

LOL. sure. You are the one that jumped all over my post calling my own personal method stupid and bro science. This is a huge backtrack. Who exactly initially called you out for “doing it wrong”? Any quotes?

859

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Oh, I didn’t mean the post per se, but just the constant reference to “the permabulkers” (you know, like “the jews”, “the fatties”, “the gays”, …). It sets the tone for the entire discussion, especially those who are in the ‘lean camp’.[/quote]

I understand where you’re coming from, but there is definitely disdain from both camps. Permabulkers look down on the lean guys who don’t look like they lift wearing an XXXXL shirt, and the ripped guys laugh at how fat the guys over 15% are.

obviously I’m exaggerating but so it goes. Not that you ever judge Steely, you’re a good lad.

I think it’s the context of the thread that’s bad, not the discussion itself. Had Anonym made the same post in a more civil thread I bet there’d have been no inferences made.

Let’s all just agree we want to look like Simeon Panda. Massive and ripped. Yes please.[/quote]

Just to make it clear, I have no disdain at all for someone who chooses to make their body fat percentage top priority. I had a problem with people acting like that is the “best way” or that simply carrying less body fat improves insulin sensitivity when it relies on many more variables like diet, activity level and overall conditioning.

I have a problem with people acting like the guys who did bulk up somehow did it wrong…when they seem to be some of the most muscular guys here…and in regards to someone having the goal of being one of the biggest, they should probably do what built the most really big people.

If someone doesn’t even want to get that big then they aren’t even the target audience.

I think you are reading the sentiment incorrectly.[/quote]

I wasn’t talking about you when I posted that, I’m pretty sure I understand your sentiment

860

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

LOL. sure. You are the one that jumped all over my post calling my own personal method stupid and bro science. This is a huge backtrack. Who exactly initially called you out for “doing it wrong”? Any quotes?[/quote]

I didn’t call your method “stupid”. I didn’t degrade you at all. I asked you specifically what proof you have that fat alone is directly related to insulin resistance because if there is none, the rigid belief that it has direct relation without proof is bro science.

Where did you read “stupid”?