[quote]Waittz wrote:
Inb4 I want to walk through the door way sideways. [/quote]
LOL’d
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Dont take this the wrong way, but you look much worse now and at that level of bodyfat. There is no reason for you to be bulking/mass phase etc. You should focus on getting healthy, learning how to lift and more importantly learning proper nutrition habbits.
[/quote]
Just a heads up…but there is nothing “healthy” about 20" arms. There is nothing “healthy” about being in competition condition either. Bodybuilding isn’t about being the “healthiest” ad never has been. What is “healthy” about being depleted at 7% body fat after the use of diuretics?
You are literally telling him what his goals should be based on the fact that you don’t like how he looks RIGHT NOW.
Dude, you wouldn’t have liked how I looked at some stages…and would like how I looked at others. This is simply a part of the journey for some people because not everyone gains optimally while keeping body fat extra low.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Dont take this the wrong way, but you look much worse now and at that level of bodyfat. There is no reason for you to be bulking/mass phase etc. You should focus on getting healthy, learning how to lift and more importantly learning proper nutrition habbits.
[/quote]
Just a heads up…but there is nothign “healthy” abiou8t 20" arms. There is nothing “healthy” about being in competition condition either. Bodybuilding isn’t about being the “healthiest” ad never has been.
You are literally telling him what his goals should be based on the fact that you don’t like how he looks RIGHT NOW.
Dude, you wouldn’t have liked how I looked at some stages…and would like how I looked at others. This is simply a part of the journey for some people because not everyone gains optimally while keeping body fat extra low.[/quote]
This isnt even close to keeping bodyfat extra low though… and you are yet again the only one discussing this.
You keep talking about “gaining optimally” but how do you even measure this lol.
lolol you haters aren’t doing it right unless you park in handicapped
btw nice progress usmccdms, you gained a noticeable amount of fat, but you definitely packed on some good mass. I think it’s all a process of refinement, in that we can make leaner gains as we get smarter and more experienced.
edit: nevermind, you LOST fat and got stronger, keep it up boss
…
Fat guys always have a sadface on pics 
not sure why
[quote]zraw wrote:
Now I was not able to find the pic without the mrT head shopped on it but this was you about 11yrs ago PX, correct?
Do you really consider yourself more impressive now…? And if so, in 11 years of bulking and accepting “necessary” fat gains for optimal growth do you feel like when all is said and done and you end up leaning down you will look much bigger than you did on that pic…?[/quote]
[quote]zraw wrote:
Now I was not able to find the pic without the mrT head shopped on it but this was you about 11yrs ago PX, correct?
Do you really consider yourself more impressive now…? And if so, in 11 years of bulking and accepting “necessary” fat gains for optimal growth do you feel like when all is said and done and you end up leaning down you will look much bigger than you did on that pic…?[/quote]
Bumping this post. X you look pretty good right here, why not get to that level of condition again? It’s not crazy lean but lean enough that you’re still 200+ and look big. You say you can lose BF quick so maintaining that leanness should be pretty easy.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Now I was not able to find the pic without the mrT head shopped on it but this was you about 11yrs ago PX, correct?
Do you really consider yourself more impressive now…? And if so, in 11 years of bulking and accepting “necessary” fat gains for optimal growth do you feel like when all is said and done and you end up leaning down you will look much bigger than you did on that pic…?[/quote]
Bumping this post. X you look pretty good right here, why not get to that level of condition again? It’s not crazy lean but lean enough that you’re still 200+ and look big. You say you can lose BF quick so maintaining that leanness should be pretty easy.[/quote]
? My waist is actually smaller in the last pic showed than there. I was simply smaller and was only 210lbs. I wasn’t ripped there. Not sure why you see that as “better” but that is your opinion.
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
lolol you haters aren’t doing it right unless you park in handicapped
…[/quote]
hahahahaha
DYEPIH?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Now I was not able to find the pic without the mrT head shopped on it but this was you about 11yrs ago PX, correct?
Do you really consider yourself more impressive now…? And if so, in 11 years of bulking and accepting “necessary” fat gains for optimal growth do you feel like when all is said and done and you end up leaning down you will look much bigger than you did on that pic…?[/quote]
Bumping this post. X you look pretty good right here, why not get to that level of condition again? It’s not crazy lean but lean enough that you’re still 200+ and look big. You say you can lose BF quick so maintaining that leanness should be pretty easy.[/quote]
? My waist is actually smaller in the last pic showed than there. I was simply smaller and was only 210lbs. I wasn’t ripped there. Not sure why you see that as “better” but that is your opinion.[/quote]
So you are telling me you were 210, now 255
Your waist was bigger at 210 than now at 255
So… this must mean your bodyfat levels were higher at 210 than they are now at 255?
…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Dont take this the wrong way, but you look much worse now and at that level of bodyfat. There is no reason for you to be bulking/mass phase etc. You should focus on getting healthy, learning how to lift and more importantly learning proper nutrition habbits.
[/quote]
Just a heads up…but there is nothing “healthy” about 20" arms. There is nothing “healthy” about being in competition condition either. Bodybuilding isn’t about being the “healthiest” ad never has been. What is “healthy” about being depleted at 7% body fat after the use of diuretics?
You are literally telling him what his goals should be based on the fact that you don’t like how he looks RIGHT NOW.
Dude, you wouldn’t have liked how I looked at some stages…and would like how I looked at others. This is simply a part of the journey for some people because not everyone gains optimally while keeping body fat extra low.[/quote]
No, Im telling him that he is getting fatter and not more muscular. And that he doesnt need to spend years looking like crap to look good. Getting to the point where you do not like the way you look currently should never be part of the journy.
Unless right now, at this second, you can look at yourself in the mirror and say I really like the way i look, you are doing it wrong. Then you plan short and long term goals to make sure you can say that every month. This is not the bigger, stronger, fatter forum.
EDIT- because my typing and spelling is worse than a 5 year old.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
No, Im telling him that he is getting fatter and not more muscular. And that he doesnt need to spend years looking like crap to look good. Getting to the point where you do not like the way you look currently should never be part of the journy.
[/quote]
It is great you think that way. I am not trying to change your mind. My guess, however, is that the guy who is pushing to reach a level of more muscle mass just may depending on if they alone are still seeing muscle gains and don’t want to waste time dieting right now.
That becomes an individual choice.
Just like bulk and cut who posted pics here, he is nowhere near his end goal so if someone is telling him he needs to diet down now if his goal is way more size, then they are NOT taking his own goals into consideration.
Just like the guy who said I looked better ten years ago at 210lbs. That is HIS opinion. I know I gained more muscle since then and am actually leaner right now. Why would I listen to someone else’s opinion over my own goals?
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Now I was not able to find the pic without the mrT head shopped on it but this was you about 11yrs ago PX, correct?
Do you really consider yourself more impressive now…? And if so, in 11 years of bulking and accepting “necessary” fat gains for optimal growth do you feel like when all is said and done and you end up leaning down you will look much bigger than you did on that pic…?[/quote]
Bumping this post. X you look pretty good right here, why not get to that level of condition again? It’s not crazy lean but lean enough that you’re still 200+ and look big. You say you can lose BF quick so maintaining that leanness should be pretty easy.[/quote]
? My waist is actually smaller in the last pic showed than there. I was simply smaller and was only 210lbs. I wasn’t ripped there. Not sure why you see that as “better” but that is your opinion.[/quote]
So you are telling me you were 210, now 255
Your waist was bigger at 210 than now at 255
So… this must mean your bodyfat levels were higher at 210 than they are now at 255?
…[/quote]
You haven’t even seen a pic of me recently. The last pic shown was of me last year after that trip to CO when I dropped more body fat.
I am not sure what you are asking here. Yes, I am leaner now than back then.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Now I was not able to find the pic without the mrT head shopped on it but this was you about 11yrs ago PX, correct?
Do you really consider yourself more impressive now…? And if so, in 11 years of bulking and accepting “necessary” fat gains for optimal growth do you feel like when all is said and done and you end up leaning down you will look much bigger than you did on that pic…?[/quote]
Bumping this post. X you look pretty good right here, why not get to that level of condition again? It’s not crazy lean but lean enough that you’re still 200+ and look big. You say you can lose BF quick so maintaining that leanness should be pretty easy.[/quote]
? My waist is actually smaller in the last pic showed than there. I was simply smaller and was only 210lbs. I wasn’t ripped there. Not sure why you see that as “better” but that is your opinion.[/quote]
So you are telling me you were 210, now 255
Your waist was bigger at 210 than now at 255
So… this must mean your bodyfat levels were higher at 210 than they are now at 255?
…[/quote]
You haven’t even seen a pic of me recently. The last pic shown was of me last year after that trip to CO when I dropped more body fat.
I am not sure what you are asking here. Yes, I am leaner now than back then.[/quote]
You posted “the last pic showed than there” so I do not need to know what you look like now.
[quote]zraw wrote:
You keep talking about “gaining optimally” but how do you even measure this lol.
[/quote]
Good question. It is about time someone asked that. You DON’T. You can’t. What you CAN do is make sure that your body is growing by making sure you are feeding it enough to grow and gain some muscular body weight. That is ALL you can do while your body deals with every variable that YOU can not take into account and change.
In other words, I know I am eating enough to gain optimally if I am gaining that body weight. That is what bulking up is…making SURE you are eating enough to gain that muscle. That’s it.
The person who should be worried about that even more is the guy who THINKS he can calculate the exact amount to gain ONLY muscle and no body fat.
Some of us simply choose to accept that some fat will be gained while we take care of business.
It can be lost later. No big deal assuming you kept it in check.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
You keep talking about “gaining optimally” but how do you even measure this lol.
[/quote]
Good question. It is about time someone asked that. You DON’T. You can’t. What you CAN do is make sure that your body is growing by making sure you are feeding it enough to grow and gain some muscular body weight. That is ALL you can do while your body deals with every variable that YOU can not take into account and change.
In other words, I know I am eating enough to gain optimally if I am gaining that body weight. That is what bulking up is…making SURE you are eating enough to gain that muscle. That’s it.
The person who should be worried about that even more is the guy who THINKS he can calculate the exact amount to gain ONLY muscle and no body fat.
Some of us simply choose to accept that some fat will be gained while we take care of business.
It can be lost later. No big deal assuming you kept it in check.[/quote]
But, and correct me if I am wrong, there are kind of two “school of thoughts”
- When you start gaining fat you are at the required amount of cals for optimal muscle mass and everything not used for mass is then turned into muscles.
and
- The body doesnt use all cals exclusively for muscle building/repair and thus you will put on some fat even if your muscle gains arent “maxed”
For camp 1 it is easy to see where they would draw the line of “optimal muscle gain”. They would obviously try to keep cals as close as possible to the "max needed for no fat gains/minimal fat gains
For camp 2 though, given that not all cals are used for muscle building from the get go… where do you draw the line of “muscle gains are maxed”… or would there be no “max” for that group…?
dimiss the talk about the pic i dont really care having a debate about it but im interested about a discussion about my last post though
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
You keep talking about “gaining optimally” but how do you even measure this lol.
[/quote]
The person who should be worried about that even more is the guy who THINKS he can calculate the exact amount to gain ONLY muscle and no body fat.
[/quote]
I don’t think anyone here has advocated this position or even believes that it’s realistic.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
why are all these debates about the noobs?
if a noob drank protein shakes, did pushups, and went for a walk after dinner, he’d get bigger stronger leaner. yayyyyy!!!
let’s talk about what the best of the best consistently do…[/quote]
This is true. Maybe we should talk about intermediate guys 2-4 years in. [/quote]
Good point.
How are guys like that doing?
Any pics so we can discuss?[/quote]
My biggest hurdle became consistency an issue I think many intermediate lifters face. From 18-22, while in the military, I went from 135 to 170, back down to 153, and then back up to about 180. I had a ton of time and lifted from 11:00 - 13:00 5 days a week. When I got out and reality hit my training suffered. Began working at a desk, half hour lunch, night classes. Ended up at about 225 and not a good 225. All my lifts stalled and so did any progress. It really wasn’t until recently (26 now) that I’ve re-prioritized training. I invested in a home gym (no excuse anymore) and am starting to see some good progress. I’m now down to about 208 and have hit several PRs this month including 402 X 1 deadlift last Tuesday.
Videos and pics are in my hub or in my indigo log
[/quote]
Here are some reference pictures I said I’d add:
18, 22, 22, and today [/quote]
Dont take this the wrong way, but you look much worse now and at that level of bodyfat. There is no reason for you to be bulking/mass phase etc. You should focus on getting healthy, learning how to lift and more importantly learning proper nutrition habbits.
So to answer the original thread and use you as an example, No. People should not focus on gaining size/strength at all cost. They should learn the fundamentals of nutrition and lifting and apply it.
Back to the original question :
WTF is the point of ‘rushing to get as big as possible’ since you can ‘only put on muscle your first X years’. Who wants to not look at the mirror and smile, or feel uncomfortable with their shirt off at the beach all through their 20’s and 30’s so they can be a ‘beast’ later in life in their twighlight years?
Inb4 I want to walk through the door way sideways. [/quote]
Hench the whole post about gaining weight above 
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
You keep talking about “gaining optimally” but how do you even measure this lol.
[/quote]
The person who should be worried about that even more is the guy who THINKS he can calculate the exact amount to gain ONLY muscle and no body fat.
[/quote]
I don’t think anyone here has advocated this position or even believes that it’s realistic.[/quote]
I know, right. Looks like dietitians and nutritionists and contest prep coaches should close shop. Always writing diets when they don’t know EXACTLY–this means to the single calorie–how many calories are needed each and everyday for clients/patients.
Who are they to write tomorrow’s or next week’s meal plan if they don’t even know how many calories you’re gonna need tomorrow for your goals?
What were all these guys like John Berardi, Clay Hyght, Shelby Starnes, Scott Abel, and Dave Tate thinking when they wrote sample routines and generalized emplates in their articles when they didn’t even know who they were writing to?
Who are all these doctors prescribing medications when they don’t know how someone is going to respond to them?