The Body Weight Factor 2

Training
81

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

i find it funny people come to this forum to talk about competition over and over (is the Bodybuilding forum dead now because no one here actually cares about competing)

have a lot of people here achieved a physique similar to PX, even at his level of BF?

i don’t like how you talk about “successful competitors”(is everyone who doesn’t compete a failure?) as if that is the end result of everyone here (specifically in this forum). Not everyone cares about walking around at non-maintainable levels of bodyfat, or flexing on a stage…

also, it’s as if the posters here think that going on a cut is somehow the challenging aspect of bodybuilding and not the actual “putting on muscle” part… and try to diminish the results of people who have more LBM than them

[/quote]

This was a good post. I am not sure why the 'but I compete" thing is giving anyone any credit alone. I mean, unless you have reached the goal of the individual poster, it may or may not mean much unless they also plan to compete.

82

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

I definitely agree that the end goal is, overall, more important than the middle steps it takes to get there. It’s why basic goalsetting involves making a long-term goal, then working backwards to determine the short and mid-term goals/steps needed to get there.

But I disagree with your statement “working on gaining bodyweight should be a goal in itself”. It’s inaccurate to say that gaining bodyweight should be the goal. The goal should be the goal, and that’s most often going to involve gaining bodyweight (presuming the long-term goal involves being more muscular).[/quote]

I think I specified several times that this is for people with the goal of EXTREMELY DEVELOPED MUSCLES. If that needs further explanation just let me know. It is already understood that the goal is the goal.

[quote]

This could be us misunderstanding/miscommunicating again, but stating “gaining bodyweight should be a goal in itself” could easily be misunderstood as “if the number on the scale is going up, you’re doing good.”[/quote]

That can’t be possible unless someone ignores the following statement of MAKE SURE LIFTS ARE INCREASING AND YOU SEE A CHANGE IN THE MIRROR AS WELL AS THE SCALE.

Let me know if I need to repeat that again lest that basic message be lost again.

Being a condescending ass to one of the most helpful people on the site is an example of why you get treated the way you do.

Let me know if I need to repeat that again.

83

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

i find it funny people come to this forum to talk about competition over and over (is the Bodybuilding forum dead now because no one here actually cares about competing)

have a lot of people here achieved a physique similar to PX, even at his level of BF?

i don’t like how you talk about “successful competitors”(is everyone who doesn’t compete a failure?) as if that is the end result of everyone here (specifically in this forum). Not everyone cares about walking around at non-maintainable levels of bodyfat, or flexing on a stage…

also, it’s as if the posters here think that going on a cut is somehow the challenging aspect of bodybuilding and not the actual “putting on muscle” part… and try to diminish the results of people who have more LBM than them

[/quote]

This was a good post. I am not sure why the 'but I compete" thing is giving anyone any credit alone. I mean, unless you have reached the goal of the individual poster, it may or may not mean much unless they also plan to compete.[/quote]

Actually, it’s a pretty bad post. It took a simple description of two specific individuals meant to merely imply their degrees of experience and knowledge bases, and twisted it to whine about recent going-ons in the forums. In fact, as I already mentioned to the OP, I highly doubt he really interpreted my initial comment the way he pretended to. He wrote that as a bogus platform of being offended and to bolster his opinions.

S

84

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

i find it funny people come to this forum to talk about competition over and over (is the Bodybuilding forum dead now because no one here actually cares about competing)

have a lot of people here achieved a physique similar to PX, even at his level of BF?

i don’t like how you talk about “successful competitors”(is everyone who doesn’t compete a failure?) as if that is the end result of everyone here (specifically in this forum). Not everyone cares about walking around at non-maintainable levels of bodyfat, or flexing on a stage…

also, it’s as if the posters here think that going on a cut is somehow the challenging aspect of bodybuilding and not the actual “putting on muscle” part… and try to diminish the results of people who have more LBM than them

[/quote]

This was a good post. I am not sure why the 'but I compete" thing is giving anyone any credit alone. I mean, unless you have reached the goal of the individual poster, it may or may not mean much unless they also plan to compete.[/quote]

Actually, it’s a pretty bad post. It took a simple description of two specific individuals meant to merely imply their degrees of experience and knowledge bases, and twisted it to whine about recent going-ons in the forums. In fact, as I already mentioned to the OP, I highly doubt he really interpreted my initial comment the way he pretended to. He wrote that as a bogus platform of being offended and to bolster his opinions.

S[/quote]

I just pick up on subtle things, that is all

You wrote about successful competitors and right after talked about PX, implying his opinion isn’t valid because he doesn’t compete or doesn’t coach people. Why bring them up if that isn’t what you were trying to imply?

I don’t know why people think cutting gives them more credibility when it comes to putting on LBM, than someone who doesn’t cut…

85

^ because “Ball don’t lie” - Rasheed Wallace

86

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
I just pick up on subtle things, that is all

You wrote about successful competitors and right after talked about PX, implying his opinion isn’t valid because he doesn’t compete or doesn’t coach people. Why bring them up if that isn’t what you were trying to imply?

[/quote]
There was nothing subtle in what I wrote, it said what it said. Colucci commented that this forum has become a ‘PX vs everyone else’ forum. I agreed, and wondered if that was the actual intent, as any thread he chimes in on becomes an instant (s)hit-storm. My reference to others who I referenced by name (Brick and Zraw) was in listing the rare posters not being PX to start threads in this new forum. Additionally, in line with the intent/playing out of this forum, I drew comparisons to Meadows and Thibaudeau, each having their own forum for Q&A. The mentioning of someone as a “successful competitor”, when discussing knowledge bases of muscle building as well as dietary approaches, is merely another credential that gets used quite often.

If YOU choose to focus on the fact that I mentioned that a couple of the names dropped have competed, and not the fact that one of the authors/editors/very respected people on this site made a very truthful notation that this forum (no matter it’s true intentions) has basically become a joke, then so be it.

[quote]

I don’t know why people think cutting gives them more credibility when it comes to putting on LBM, than someone who doesn’t cut…[/quote]

They don’t all think that, but if someone does for whatever their reasoning, then that’s their opinion. You can choose to disagree and make a fool of yourself arguing for pages on end regardless of the actual subject being posted about, or your can just let them have their own opinion and keep worrying about yourself. Perhaps though, your notable irritation with any slight hint of that particular feeling (if even true or not) conveys a bit of self issues. Obviously something about the subject gets you touchy.

And as to the thought that knowing about cutting means more knowledge about putting on LBM,… that’s absurd. As it’s been explained by many others already, it’s not the possibility of putting on LBM that gets props, it’s just the verifiability aspect.

S

87

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

They don’t all think that, but if someone does for whatever their reasoning, then that’s their opinion. You can choose to disagree and make a fool of yourself arguing for pages on end regardless of the actual subject being posted about, or your can just let them have their own opinion and keep worrying about yourself. Perhaps though, your notable irritation with any slight hint of that particular feeling (if even true or not) conveys a bit of self issues. Obviously something about the subject gets you touchy.

And as to the thought that knowing about cutting means more knowledge about putting on LBM,… that’s absurd. As it’s been explained by many others already, it’s not the possibility of putting on LBM that gets props, it’s just the verifiability aspect.

S[/quote]

haha, ok, sorry for misinterpreting

don’t really have self issues, just see some people here(not you) attempting to discredit every post on every possible topic from others simply because they are carrying more BF%, even when they are likely carrying a lot more LBM than themselves

88

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

All I can think of as a possible reason why so many people seem to be more concerned with the dieting down aspect lately is perhaps the possible rational that it might be easier to verify true muscle gains in a leaner state. Due to the nature of recent threads (muscle gains, limits, insulin sensitivity and gains…) it kind of makes sense when people are making various claims.

S[/quote]

when competing you don’t know their bodyfat either, isn’t getting it measured scientifically the only way?

[/quote]

Come on now, everyone knows you take a picture with your shirt off while holding a shoe and post it on a online bodybuilding forum.

*Old school T-Nation right there!

89

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

They don’t all think that, but if someone does for whatever their reasoning, then that’s their opinion. You can choose to disagree and make a fool of yourself arguing for pages on end regardless of the actual subject being posted about, or your can just let them have their own opinion and keep worrying about yourself. Perhaps though, your notable irritation with any slight hint of that particular feeling (if even true or not) conveys a bit of self issues. Obviously something about the subject gets you touchy.

And as to the thought that knowing about cutting means more knowledge about putting on LBM,… that’s absurd. As it’s been explained by many others already, it’s not the possibility of putting on LBM that gets props, it’s just the verifiability aspect.

S[/quote]

haha, ok, sorry for misinterpreting

don’t really have self issues, just see some people here(not you) attempting to discredit every post on every possible topic from others simply because they are carrying more BF%, even when they are likely carrying a lot more LBM than themselves
[/quote]

Agreed. It is like building a shit load of muscle now takes second place to “abs alone”.

90

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

If YOU choose to focus on the fact that I mentioned that a couple of the names dropped have competed, and not the fact that one of the authors/editors/very respected people on this site made a very truthful notation that this forum (no matter it’s true intentions) has basically become a joke, then so be it.

Dude, no offense, but all of these forums are what YOU make them…and “YOU” refers to every poster here.

There is NOTHING I have written that is making people act in a way to turn this forum to a joke. You should blame the people who come into threads for the ONLY purpose of not discussing the topic but arguing with me. If it isn’t clear people are doing that, something is wrong with your computer.

If you want this forum to be better, understand that your own “tone” seems to discredit people who actually built a lot of muscle but have not competed and have no plans to.

If you can claim so much from the “tone” of my posts, accept the same for your own.

91

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you want this forum to be better, understand that your own “tone” seems to discredit people who actually built a lot of muscle but have not competed and have no plans to.[/quote]

I would love nothing more than these forums to be better. You’re certainly welcome to believe what you’d like, but I have a very difficult time accepting the notion that the “tone” of my posts comes across in a discrediting, rude, or insulting manner. Never have I insulted anyone who has built a ton of muscle, nor have I insulted anyone who didn’t have aspirations to compete. While I will acknowledge that you get a lot of crap on here from a lot of people, but it’s not for either of those two specific reasons and you know it full well.

[quote]
If you can claim so much from the “tone” of my posts, accept the same for your own.[/quote]

I do.

S

92

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

I would love nothing more than these forums to be better. You’re certainly welcome to believe what you’d like, but I have a very difficult time accepting the notion that the “tone” of my posts comes across in a discrediting, rude, or insulting manner. [/quote]

Discrediting? Yes. Rude? No. Maybe passive aggressive, but considering the other poster noticed the same thing, you don’t think that maybe it can be seen that way?

Then what reason is it for? Every post I have ever written is in the archives. Most of what I get told I wrote somewhere is complete nonsense and lies…like the common, “You said your back is bigger than Rockels” nonsense when I didn’t even write that.

Instead of putting the fault of the fall of these forums on people who do that and follow me around to lie…you place it on me…and that makes no sense if you are truly “unbiased”.

93

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

I would love nothing more than these forums to be better. You’re certainly welcome to believe what you’d like, but I have a very difficult time accepting the notion that the “tone” of my posts comes across in a discrediting, rude, or insulting manner. [/quote]

Discrediting? Yes. Rude? No. Maybe passive aggressive, but considering the other poster noticed the same thing, you don’t think that maybe it can be seen that way?

Then what reason is it for? Every post I have ever written is in the archives. Most of what I get told I wrote somewhere is complete nonsense and lies…like the common, “You said your back is bigger than Rockels” nonsense when I didn’t even write that.

Instead of putting the fault of the fall of these forums on people who do that and follow me around to lie…you place it on me…and that makes no sense if you are truly “unbiased”.
[/quote]

LOL. I can’t believe you had the balls to write this on the same page where you were a condescending prick toward Colucci.

It’s the same old tired attitude that pisses people off.

I’m a DOCTOR!

I’m a BIOLOGIST!

I’m a GENETICIST!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Thank you for that. I have “doctor” in front of my name but there is always basic shit about biology that I missed. I shall credit that for my weight gain.
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I could say that this is one more reason why you should not limit your thinking. You can make huge assumptions when you do. I am a DMD, the type who uses a scalpel and sutures on an almost daily basis.
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I hope what you just wrote doesn’t make sense to even you.[/quote]

You are unable to hold a discussion on the forums in a civilized manner.

94

[quote]Professor X wrote:
There is NOTHING I have written that is making people act in a way to turn this forum to a joke. [/quote]

Really amazing STUFF here. Thanks FOR the laugh, I REALLY mean THAT.

95

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Discrediting? Yes. Rude? No. Maybe passive aggressive, but considering the other poster noticed the same thing, you don’t think that maybe it can be seen that way? [/quote]

Discredit? Nope, I acknowledge when people have built impressive amounts of size. You get the tip of the hat from me as well as many others on here (that’s how it’s done right? I pay you a compliment and you give me the ‘good post’ reply?)

Actually, the other poster (Marshaldteach) understood what I said, when I explained why I referenced the particular accomplishments that I did for specific people. He apologized, we chuckled, and I have no issue with him.

[quote]
Then what reason is it for? Every post I have ever written is in the archives. Most of what I get told I wrote somewhere is complete nonsense and lies…like the common, “You said your back is bigger than Rockels” nonsense when I didn’t even write that.[/quote]

There are several reasons (JUST MY OPINION HERE) I can see that so many people on this site seem to have issues with you. I’m sure you’ll have a witty retort or try to turn this reply like I’m personally attacking you, but I’m not. This is just how I see you continually playing with the other kids in the sandbox:

-You can never be wrong. You will argue to the death anything that can possibly create the impression that you might not actually know everything that there is to know about bodybuilding. Whether suddenly elaborating on your own experiences and education, or referencing others that you’ve been around, you have a rationalization (excuse) for everything. I never fully grasped it until I witnessed the sheer absurdity of the now infamous Pre-exhaust thread a short while back. Before then, I really just skimmed over most of your posts. All you needed to do was explain your approach, why you think it’d work, and everyone would have played nice. Instead, you wrote with an almost contemptuous dismissal of what has been an accepted, and widely publicized training method for decades. Seriously man, while in your own head you may have truly, honestly thought that you were fighting for the greater good, you didn’t come out looking too well.

-You perceive yourself as a victim when your opinion is in the minority. It can never be a remote possibility that you’re seeing things differently than most, so it must be some internet (facebook? BOI?) conspiracy. (see previous bullet point, as well as every thread you’ve been involved in since this new subforum has been in existence)

-You are 100% convinced that you are in the upper echelon, elite minority of anyone who has ever stepped foot in a gym. I can honestly see no other reason why you get so worked up when other posters simply put up photos of top athletes (BBers, PLs, or Strongmen) with their various stats. Athletes who have had their physical statistics objectively verified on many occasions create quite an interesting comparison to a front-on-cel-phone-MM in a gym mirror, and repeated forum stories of “and I’m heavier now, and 5 lbs leaner”.

-You are also frightened at possibly being called on any of your claims, or being shown up. Granted, you have maintained that you have no intentions of ever competing (although there was a time when you and CT both alluded to dieting you down a few years back), or shredding down to single digit bf levels. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s not something everyone who enjoys training has to do, no one argues this. Of course, this also makes it all but impossible to compare you with others whose stats and photos are readily accessible. A simple option would be to take the “yeah, so and so looks big, but I think I’m a similar size… too bad we’ll never know” approach. Instead you fight back and forth with anyone to tries to approximate what your stats would be if you ever did cut down. There should be nothing wrong with that, as you yourself put your claimed information out there for people to know, but it gets blown all over the place. More attention for you I guess.

-You are threatened when someone from the site accomplishes something that gains them attention of the rest of the regular readers/posters. Think about the people on here who you’ve gotten into little spats with over the years (many whom are no longer here, to the definite lowering of the quality of true information exchange on the site). These were all posters who had serious knowledge as well as sporting excellent physiques (a further testament to their approaches).

-You’re a pretty rude and dismissive poster. I know you try to give the air of ‘being above it all’, and having a very noticeably created professional way of explaining things, but you also have your ‘seriously WTF’, and down talking way of writing. Don’t think that people don’t notice.

I put no fault on anyone. I’ve enjoyed this site for over a decade, and will continue to do so. I have no axe to grind with anyone. All I’ve tried to do is learn from others, and share my own experiences. While I never had any ulterior motives for anything I’ve written, I’ve been lucky that the others on here seem to appreciate my efforts, and friendly approach. If you’re suddenly realizing the attitude that so many have fostered about you from years of your own actions, don’t look to blame me simply because I’m watching it happen.

S

96

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

They don’t all think that, but if someone does for whatever their reasoning, then that’s their opinion. You can choose to disagree and make a fool of yourself arguing for pages on end regardless of the actual subject being posted about, or your can just let them have their own opinion and keep worrying about yourself. Perhaps though, your notable irritation with any slight hint of that particular feeling (if even true or not) conveys a bit of self issues. Obviously something about the subject gets you touchy.

And as to the thought that knowing about cutting means more knowledge about putting on LBM,… that’s absurd. As it’s been explained by many others already, it’s not the possibility of putting on LBM that gets props, it’s just the verifiability aspect.

S[/quote]

haha, ok, sorry for misinterpreting

don’t really have self issues, just see some people here(not you) attempting to discredit every post on every possible topic from others simply because they are carrying more BF%, even when they are likely carrying a lot more LBM than themselves
[/quote]

Agreed. It is like building a shit load of muscle now takes second place to “abs alone”.[/quote]

Hasn’t it though? I was under the impression that these forums were for people not interested in hitting the stage, but just being more “fit”, whatever their interpretation of the word. These days having visible abs and an athletic build is more associated with fitness than the “Built Like a Brick Shithouse” look.

You clearly don’t agree with this concept but maybe the times-they-are-a-changin’? What was “cool” and “fit” and “looks like he works out!” in the 90s is very different from today. Abzz are in as sad is that may seem to someone.

97

Guess no one actually gave a shit about insulin sensitivity…

98

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

They don’t all think that, but if someone does for whatever their reasoning, then that’s their opinion. You can choose to disagree and make a fool of yourself arguing for pages on end regardless of the actual subject being posted about, or your can just let them have their own opinion and keep worrying about yourself. Perhaps though, your notable irritation with any slight hint of that particular feeling (if even true or not) conveys a bit of self issues. Obviously something about the subject gets you touchy.

And as to the thought that knowing about cutting means more knowledge about putting on LBM,… that’s absurd. As it’s been explained by many others already, it’s not the possibility of putting on LBM that gets props, it’s just the verifiability aspect.

S[/quote]

haha, ok, sorry for misinterpreting

don’t really have self issues, just see some people here(not you) attempting to discredit every post on every possible topic from others simply because they are carrying more BF%, even when they are likely carrying a lot more LBM than themselves
[/quote]

Agreed. It is like building a shit load of muscle now takes second place to “abs alone”.[/quote]

Hasn’t it though? I was under the impression that these forums were for people not interested in hitting the stage, but just being more “fit”, whatever their interpretation of the word. These days having visible abs and an athletic build is more associated with fitness than the “Built Like a Brick Shithouse” look.

You clearly don’t agree with this concept but maybe the times-they-are-a-changin’? What was “cool” and “fit” and “looks like he works out!” in the 90s is very different from today. Abzz are in as sad is that may seem to someone. [/quote]

I guess you missed the last word in the Forum title-Leaner. This forum was created for EVERYBODY ELSE that enjoys lifting but don’t/won’t compete. Seems that encompasses quite a few different “ideals” than what you are talking about up there. Fore some reason though, it seems there was an immediate attempt after it’s creation to be about just being big. Doesn’t look like it’ll work, however.

As if the statement you quoted holds any actual water at all anyway. Typical parsing of what’s actually going on.

99

[quote]cueball wrote:

[quote]setto222 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

They don’t all think that, but if someone does for whatever their reasoning, then that’s their opinion. You can choose to disagree and make a fool of yourself arguing for pages on end regardless of the actual subject being posted about, or your can just let them have their own opinion and keep worrying about yourself. Perhaps though, your notable irritation with any slight hint of that particular feeling (if even true or not) conveys a bit of self issues. Obviously something about the subject gets you touchy.

And as to the thought that knowing about cutting means more knowledge about putting on LBM,… that’s absurd. As it’s been explained by many others already, it’s not the possibility of putting on LBM that gets props, it’s just the verifiability aspect.

S[/quote]

haha, ok, sorry for misinterpreting

don’t really have self issues, just see some people here(not you) attempting to discredit every post on every possible topic from others simply because they are carrying more BF%, even when they are likely carrying a lot more LBM than themselves
[/quote]

Agreed. It is like building a shit load of muscle now takes second place to “abs alone”.[/quote]

Hasn’t it though? I was under the impression that these forums were for people not interested in hitting the stage, but just being more “fit”, whatever their interpretation of the word. These days having visible abs and an athletic build is more associated with fitness than the “Built Like a Brick Shithouse” look.

You clearly don’t agree with this concept but maybe the times-they-are-a-changin’? What was “cool” and “fit” and “looks like he works out!” in the 90s is very different from today. Abzz are in as sad is that may seem to someone. [/quote]

I guess you missed the last word in the Forum title-Leaner. This forum was created for EVERYBODY ELSE that enjoys lifting but don’t/won’t compete. Seems that encompasses quite a few different “ideals” than what you are talking about up there. Fore some reason though, it seems there was an immediate attempt after it’s creation to be about just being big. Doesn’t look like it’ll work, however.

As if the statement you quoted holds any actual water at all anyway. Typical parsing of what’s actually going on.[/quote]

Hmmm…seems I may have mis-represented myself. I’m in the leaner camp. I was supporting the notion that walking around in a leaner state is regarded as more “fit” than in the full house state and that I would rather appear the current definition of “fit” all year long than after a few years of work.

100

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Discrediting? Yes. Rude? No. Maybe passive aggressive, but considering the other poster noticed the same thing, you don’t think that maybe it can be seen that way? [/quote]

Discredit? Nope, I acknowledge when people have built impressive amounts of size. You get the tip of the hat from me as well as many others on here (that’s how it’s done right? I pay you a compliment and you give me the ‘good post’ reply?)

Actually, the other poster (Marshaldteach) understood what I said, when I explained why I referenced the particular accomplishments that I did for specific people. He apologized, we chuckled, and I have no issue with him.

beSt post