[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
brian.m wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
I prefer to think of this age old question in terms of “pit weight”. Pit weight is that weight where you are carrying neither excess fat nor excess muscle…it’s the intersection of your best cardio health and the strongest you can be at that fitness level. It’s probably the kind of shape you’d want to be in if you had to fight for your life. Yeah, okay, Marius is “functional”, I get that…but the likes of Marius would have no place on an elite fighting/war squad and he’s hardly the picture of health. I think some of you, myself included along my own personal journey, have forgotten about the health aspect - trading size and strength at the expense of overall health. Truly, the most functional and healthy among us would be built like an outstanding special forces guy. Just my opinion…
you think that you would beat mariusz in an ‘elite/war squad fight’ if you gain 10 lbs of muscle and he remains at his best conditioning at 315 or whatever?
if my life depended on a survival outcome, i’d go to the weight i just described above…which is to LOSE weight, GAIN conditioning…not gain weight. if you think in terms of “beating” marius, you must be 13 years old and in your world, the biggest guy always wins fights. does that about sum it up?
question; do you think marius could box 12 rounds? do you think he could fight 3 five minute rounds? allow me to save you from wasting your time; the answer is no.
[/quote]
Uh, he’s signed to fight so I guess the answer is yes.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
SWR wrote:
What health problems is Marius having?
How much muscle can someone have before they can’t still have cardio health?
i doubt he publishes the results from his doctor visits so what issues he currently has is anyones guess. [/quote]
my point exactly
I think the statement “a man his size will not live as long as he would being 100lbs lighter” would need a ton of science (that doesn’t include overly fat or obese people) behind it.
Show me any research on the subject that only includes heavily muscled AND conditioned people, such as Marius (and not generally fat or obese people). I’m honestly curious.
To expound on my other posts, if I were playing football and a herd of zombies and mountain lions were unleashed on the field, not only could I get away while saving some friends, I’d do it while juking my way to 5 touchdowns. That’s my ideal weight.
[quote]SWR wrote:
Deorum wrote:
SWR wrote:
What health problems is Marius having?
How much muscle can someone have before they can’t still have cardio health?
i doubt he publishes the results from his doctor visits so what issues he currently has is anyones guess.
my point exactly
that said its no secret a man his size will not live as long as he would being 100lbs lighter. i actually think i would dismiss anyone who said different unless they had some hella thought provoking science behind them.
I think the statement “a man his size will not live as long as he would being 100lbs lighter” would need a ton of science (that doesn’t include overly fat or obese people) behind it.
Show me any research on the subject that only includes heavily muscled AND conditioned people, such as Marius (and not generally fat or obese people). I’m honestly curious.[/quote]
You use more energy to support that much muscle… common sense should be enough. If you cut off your balls you will live longer as well.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
brian.m wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
I prefer to think of this age old question in terms of “pit weight”. Pit weight is that weight where you are carrying neither excess fat nor excess muscle…it’s the intersection of your best cardio health and the strongest you can be at that fitness level. It’s probably the kind of shape you’d want to be in if you had to fight for your life. Yeah, okay, Marius is “functional”, I get that…but the likes of Marius would have no place on an elite fighting/war squad and he’s hardly the picture of health. I think some of you, myself included along my own personal journey, have forgotten about the health aspect - trading size and strength at the expense of overall health. Truly, the most functional and healthy among us would be built like an outstanding special forces guy. Just my opinion…
you think that you would beat mariusz in an ‘elite/war squad fight’ if you gain 10 lbs of muscle and he remains at his best conditioning at 315 or whatever?
if my life depended on a survival outcome, i’d go to the weight i just described above…which is to LOSE weight, GAIN conditioning…not gain weight. if you think in terms of “beating” marius, you must be 13 years old and in your world, the biggest guy always wins fights. does that about sum it up?
question; do you think marius could box 12 rounds? do you think he could fight 3 five minute rounds? allow me to save you from wasting your time; the answer is no.
[/quote]
the point is the complete other side of survival is what are you surviving against? If Marius was boxing you +10lbs in a fight, i believe he wouldnt have to go 10 rounds, because That is how survival works.
hell, even if i was going to have to survive in the woods i think i’d rather start at a heavier weight and let the lack of food let me trim down to a more “functional” weight
dude, my picture is right beside my posts, so no, i’m not 13, and yes i keep dogging on the Survival aspect, because thats what i see as surviving
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
brian.m wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
I prefer to think of this age old question in terms of “pit weight”. Pit weight is that weight where you are carrying neither excess fat nor excess muscle…it’s the intersection of your best cardio health and the strongest you can be at that fitness level. It’s probably the kind of shape you’d want to be in if you had to fight for your life. Yeah, okay, Marius is “functional”, I get that…but the likes of Marius would have no place on an elite fighting/war squad and he’s hardly the picture of health. I think some of you, myself included along my own personal journey, have forgotten about the health aspect - trading size and strength at the expense of overall health. Truly, the most functional and healthy among us would be built like an outstanding special forces guy. Just my opinion…
you think that you would beat mariusz in an ‘elite/war squad fight’ if you gain 10 lbs of muscle and he remains at his best conditioning at 315 or whatever?
if my life depended on a survival outcome, i’d go to the weight i just described above…which is to LOSE weight, GAIN conditioning…not gain weight. if you think in terms of “beating” marius, you must be 13 years old and in your world, the biggest guy always wins fights. does that about sum it up?
question; do you think marius could box 12 rounds? do you think he could fight 3 five minute rounds? allow me to save you from wasting your time; the answer is no.
Uh, he’s signed to fight so I guess the answer is yes.[/quote]
Don’t forget, he plays Rugby too. I realize that ass-hats will bring up his being inferior because he isn’t doing it professionally, but anyone whose brains haven’t been eaten by zombies will understand that he’s only doing it at a level to be functional.
dude, my picture is right beside my posts, so no, i’m not 13, and yes i keep dogging on the Survival aspect, because thats what i see as surviving[/quote]
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
matko5 wrote:
6’2, 230 going up and counting.
FUNCTIONAL
I can run, jump more than before, am faster and more explosive at my most heaviest.
Really? what is your body fat?[/quote]
I have no idea. Sure I’ve got love handles, but my stomach still isn’t hanging over my belt. I can see separation between what is rectus abdominis and obliques, but covered in lard.
And I train volleyball, so I would never willingly compromise my sports performance (well, not much! :D)
Gain weight, a lot of weight. All while continuing to do all your fun functional things. Once you notice your performance in whatever it is you like to do starts diminishing, stop gaining weight and let your body get used to the new awesomeness that you are now carrying around. Once your body acclimates and you are functioning as good, or better, than you were before… gain weight again, if at some point you find that you aren’t doing things as well as you were at a lighter weight no matter how long you let your body get used to the new weight… drop 10 lbs.
Gain weight, a lot of weight. All while continuing to do all your fun functional things. Once you notice your performance in whatever it is you like to do starts diminishing, stop gaining weight and let your body get used to the new awesomeness that you are now carrying around. Once your body acclimates and you are functioning as good, or better, than you were before… gain weight again, if at some point you find that you aren’t doing things as well as you were at a lighter weight no matter how long you let your body get used to the new weight… drop 10 lbs. [/quote]
F@#$%! Something so simple yet probably one of the most intelligent things said on this or any other forum I’ve read so far
[quote]Deorum wrote:
SWR wrote:
What health problems is Marius having?
How much muscle can someone have before they can’t still have cardio health?
i doubt he publishes the results from his doctor visits so what issues he currently has is anyones guess. that said its no secret a man his size will not live as long as he would being 100lbs lighter. i actually think i would dismiss anyone who said different unless they had some hella thought provoking science behind them.[/quote]
I don’t think life expectancy has as much to do with actual weight - although we can argue that the source of that weight, e.g. muscle vs. fat, can impact health - as it does with the flux of nutrients the body intakes and PROCESSES.
Obviously, someone larger like Mariusz will eat more and metabolize more than other people who are “normal” weight, but that might also mean that Mariusz’s body outputs more waste (free radicals, solid/liquid waste, etc) as a result of simply processing more food and burning through more nutrients/tissue to support his physical activity.
I think we cause damage to our tissues whenever we eat/metabolize stuff, so people that eat very little or are slow moving somehow “extend” their lives by lessening the flux of oxidative stress they put their bodies under.
But because of all the 09ers, the above will go unnoticed.
IMO, MMA fighters have to be in the best all around shape of any athlete. So if you look at the ranges of height to weight ratios of top fighters, you’ll have your answer. This will also take into account your own build, so find someone who has a similar build. In other words, Lesnar is 6’3", so is Forrest Griffin, but they have two different builds. Forrest will never be the size of Lesnar.
[quote]SWR wrote:
SWR wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
I prefer to think of this age old question in terms of “pit weight”. Pit weight is that weight where you are carrying neither excess fat nor excess muscle…it’s the intersection of your best cardio health and the strongest you can be at that fitness level. It’s probably the kind of shape you’d want to be in if you had to fight for your life. Yeah, okay, Marius is “functional”, I get that…but the likes of Marius would have no place on an elite fighting/war squad and he’s hardly the picture of health. I think some of you, myself included along my own personal journey, have forgotten about the health aspect - trading size and strength at the expense of overall health. Truly, the most functional and healthy among us would be built like an outstanding special forces guy. Just my opinion…
What health problems is Marius having?
How much muscle can someone have before they can’t still have cardio health?
Bueller? [/quote]
Bueller was living a pretty charmed life so I’ll go ahead and take it.
I think - MY OPINION, but I like to think my opinion has some seasoning and knowledge behind it - is that the epitome of health/function is where strength and conditioning intersect at their highest - and that weight will ALWAYS be at the weight I described as “pit weight”. We can jerk each off endlessly about “function” and what events are we talking about…
But what I’m talking about is overall. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand that a guy @ 245 is not going to have the same conditioning as a guy who is 215 for instance - all other things equal. And the power the 245lb guy has over the 215 guy is meaningless in real life - especially survival situations.
The “best functional bodyweight” would be that “sweet spot” where top strength and conditioning intersect - where one is not sacraficed to the extreme of the other. Just my opinion. I don’t know how to answer the question better than that. The actual weight will be different for each individual depending on height, build, etc.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
SWR wrote:
What health problems is Marius having?
How much muscle can someone have before they can’t still have cardio health?
i doubt he publishes the results from his doctor visits so what issues he currently has is anyones guess. that said its no secret a man his size will not live as long as he would being 100lbs lighter. i actually think i would dismiss anyone who said different unless they had some hella thought provoking science behind them.[/quote]
I don’t want to turn this into a marius thread but jeeez…you guys don’t know WSM didn’t permit him to compete one year for health concerns? unless i’m making this up in my mind, i seem to remember it pretty clearly.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
honest_lifter wrote:
Ok, bear with me here. I am finding out a couple things really quickly here. 1) I am having trouble getting across exactly what I am trying to say. 2) There are a couple people so far that have a much better way with words than me. (The Body Guard, schultzie, and hockechamp to name a few) What TheBodyGuard said about “pit weight” is the IDEA that I am looking for. Not for my height only, but what others at different heights have found to be it.
some almost inumerable amount of the same man are thrown into a pit, all different weights. fight to the death. whatever weight would survive crowned most functional. theoretical functionality?[/quote]
no…i don’t think that’s what he’s looking for. too narrow of an application.