Didn’t post this to brag, but after discussing countries, death sentences, police and prisons I wanted to show how we do it. Note that Bastoy Prison is one of the prisons where you is made ready to face the outside world. We have many “standard” prisons, and if after a long sentence - if you have behaved nice - you get to live on a prison farm, where you train in having responsibility and freedom.
Do you give them a wad of cash, pat them on th back, and tell them where all the social hot-spots are, too?
It’s a sweet deal: Kill someone in Norway and you spend a few years working the fields and clubbing on the weekends.
[quote]Contrl wrote:
Do you give them a wad of cash, pat them on th back, and tell them where all the social hot-spots are, too?
It’s a sweet deal: Kill someone in Norway and you spend a few years working the fields and clubbing on the weekends.[/quote]
Unfortunately, in the United States, politicians get kudos for being as draconian as possible. This is best reflected in our drug policy, for example. Well, we can see what those draconian measures have done for drug use in this country…putting people in jail with hardened criminals where they, too, have to become hardened.
The question is, do you think that prison should be for reforming people or just putting them through hell, then putting them out on the street, penniless, and unemployable? In such a case as the latter, the chances are slim that you won’t return to crime.
BTW, I dont doubt that there are people who REALLY are unable to be reformed. For such people, certainly, keep then behind bars.
If there are countries which are having more success than us (in the U.S), we should check them out. But this will never happen because our politicians always resort to playing on fears…any politician who suggests another type of prison system will get the Willy Horton treatment.
Of course, the other question is, when is something really a crime? Murder, yes, but what about drug usage? We have another drug, called alcohol, and you would think that the era of prohibition had proven how stupid such a policy was and still is in regards to “illegal” drugs.
I think these people are insane. Really they come from a different world than me. What an insult to the victims of these criminals. Why someone should be allowed to keep their own life after they’ve murdered someone else is beyond me.
As for the socialist lifestyle, it would never work in America. Nor would I ever want it too. I’m a capitalist. We’d be bankrupt in no time. The government doesn’t pay for these things the people do. So many leftist don’t understand this. Its not right to take away money from those who work hard and give it to those who work less. Just my opinion.
This is great, but it takes a lot of organization.
In Belgium, we have overly luxurious prisons(they’ve got Playstation in their cells and can go horseback riding, to name a few…),
plus the “open” departments are very open … and sometimes criminals escape.
In fact, one criminal has tried TWICE to escape using a helicopter which landed on the walking yard, AND he succeeded twice. And that was both this year.
They recaptured him each time too, but still.
But nevertheless, I think this is possible(solely referring to the prison system), in the right hands.
As for the rest, over here people get funded by the government if you install environmentally friendly equipment, like floor heating, solar panels, more house isolation, etc …
A reason Belgium attracts so many foreigners(dare I say this here?)is because it is in fact very possible to live very well on nothing but the money and the house the government gives you.
This is by the way a source of disdain among the Belgians though.
[quote]Hagar wrote:
I think these people are insane. Really they come from a different world than me. What an insult to the victims of these criminals. Why someone should be allowed to keep their own life after they’ve murdered someone else is beyond me.
[/quote]
More Moore proaganda. They guy is a fuckwit.
How about if the state pays for our gym memberships and our supplements too. While I’m at it, I want a Lamborghini and I think the state should pay for my insurance. I also want a penthouse in Oslo, and I don’t want to work. I have a problem with laziness. Its a mental illness. I can’t help it. All I want to do is lift weights, play guitar, and eat food. The state should provide for my disability.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
Contrl wrote:
Do you give them a wad of cash, pat them on th back, and tell them where all the social hot-spots are, too?
It’s a sweet deal: Kill someone in Norway and you spend a few years working the fields and clubbing on the weekends.
Unfortunately, in the United States, politicians get kudos for being as draconian as possible. This is best reflected in our drug policy, for example. Well, we can see what those draconian measures have done for drug use in this country…putting people in jail with hardened criminals where they, too, have to become hardened.
The question is, do you think that prison should be for reforming people or just putting them through hell, then putting them out on the street, penniless, and unemployable? In such a case as the latter, the chances are slim that you won’t return to crime.
BTW, I dont doubt that there are people who REALLY are unable to be reformed. For such people, certainly, keep then behind bars.
If there are countries which are having more success than us (in the U.S), we should check them out. But this will never happen because our politicians always resort to playing on fears…any politician who suggests another type of prison system will get the Willy Horton treatment.
Of course, the other question is, when is something really a crime? Murder, yes, but what about drug usage? We have another drug, called alcohol, and you would think that the era of prohibition had proven how stupid such a policy was and still is in regards to “illegal” drugs.[/quote]
Ahh, you read my mind. However, if you saw that video you’d probably catch that I was referring to the one who was a murderer, not the petty UNICEF scammer. I entirely disagree with a legal system that prosecutes victimless crimes based on a wide array of highly subjective mentalities.
I just read somewhere that although the US only has 5% of the population of the world, we have nearly 20% of the world’s prison population.
We have a societal problem, fellas… our system is not working. I’m not saying we should be like Norway, but our way isn’t working all that well.
Not to mention that US jails make people far more violent by their very nature- maybe something like Norway’s system, but in a different manner, would behoove us, being as putting a man in prison in the US is like throwing him in a pit of wolves as is.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I just read somewhere that although the US only has 5% of the population of the world, we have nearly 20% of the world’s prison population.
We have a societal problem, fellas… our system is not working. I’m not saying we should be like Norway, but our way isn’t working all that well.
[/quote]
I got the perfect solution… More death penalties:)
The problem isn’t the system, its the people who commit the crimes. Keep in mind that our country has programs too. There’s halfway houses, job skill programs etc. We try damn hard to rehabilitate lots of people. Some see the light and some choose to live that institutionalized life style.
Norway doesn’t have a strong gang subculture like we do.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Not to mention that US jails make people far more violent by their very nature- maybe something like Norway’s system, but in a different manner, would behoove us, being as putting a man in prison in the US is like throwing him in a pit of wolves as is.[/quote]
I agree with you there. Although different prisoners get shipped to different places depending on their level of violence. I find it appalling when I hear about the male rape that goes on in there. No one should have to go threw that. If that happened to me I’d hate everyone after that.
[quote]Hagar wrote:
I got the perfect solution… More death penalties:)
The problem isn’t the system, its the people who commit the crimes. Keep in mind that our country has programs too. There’s halfway houses, job skill programs etc. We try damn hard to rehabilitate lots of people. Some see the light and some choose to live that institutionalized life style.
Norway doesn’t have a strong gang subculture like we do. [/quote]
Thank you, I laughed so hard. I really did.
“We try damn hard to rehabilitate lots of people” You obviously have no experience with the US legal system.
I’ll leave it at that, and thank you again for the laugh.
Norway is great but booze is very expensive. If you like smack you must absolutely visit Oslo.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Comical thread.
“I live in the best country because we free our violent criminals quickly and efficiently after a short incarceration filled with pleasure and joy”!
This had to be a Saturday Night Live skit.[/quote]
Very comical indeed… I can see that you master the art of debating, ridicule the opponent without actually saying anything clever or insightful. First of, I said this wasn’t a bragging thread, I thought it would be something interesting to share after all the debates we have on killing in Texas and so on. And as a european on this mainly american forum I felt like sharing how we have it. But as usual, anything that is different than in the usa gets bashed and ridiculed as something hopeless, naive and whatnot.
We free our violent criminals quickly? Our longest incarceration is 21 years. 21 years in prison is not quickly. Filled with pleasure and joy? I work part-time in a prison, so who knows best of us two? The prisons are not filled with pleasure and joy, I can say that. You have one cell for your own, it is very small. You fit a bed and a desk. It is not cozy. You can work or study if you want, the prison have workshops. You get a small salary to pay, which after time working, if you have saved the money, you can buy yourself a playstation to have in your cell. Yes, a playstation. But hear me out, living in the prison is extremely boring. everyday, same shit. You have no freedom, you are watched whatever you do. So we feel that allowing an inmate playing some playstation to pass time is okay, if he behaves that is. Very often we have inmates that can’t handle it anymore, and either attacks us or the cell. then we take him down and puts him in solitary. after that he gets a cell in the closed “zone”, where you are locked in 23 hours a day.
However, we feel that destroying a human in prison and then releasing him into real life again is asking for trouble. so we try to rehabilitate as good as we can. we have work and study in the prison. at the end of the incarceration (if you have behaved) you can work outside the prison for 08 to 16 and then return to the prison. many continue to work there as an employee after they are released. we have “farms” for people that have been in jail for a long time and is soon to released. here they got some freedom and responsibility, to train them to manage themselves in the real world.
it’s not perfect, but we try.
and to the one who said we were lazy: Norway has the highest labour productivity level in the world. (International Labour Organization)
Yes, we pay high taxes, but we get alot for it.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
SteinJorgen wrote:
…First of, I said this wasn’t a bragging thread…
The Best Country To Live In
Friend, you might want to exercise your option to use the Edit function and rename your thread.
[/quote]
The name was pointing to the youtube-title "The best country to live in - left out of the movie “Sicko” "
I do think i named the thread that too, but got probably edited by mod.
For an insight into how a fucked up prison system based on degradation rather than rehabilitation can be:
In the Belly of the Beast by Jack Henry Abbott (the guy is a total fuck though)
Scum with Ray Winstone: Scum (1979) - IMDb
Live in Norway myself, and just has to say that our health system is good, but not as godlike as Moore try to make it look. We doesn’t even have free Dentist care. It cost me 10 dollars to go to a doctor, but if i lose a theet and goes to a dentist, i have to pay fucking 1500 dollars… wtf?