The Bertuzzi

Off Topic
21

I think the suspension's about right. This kind of stuff has no place in the game, 'old school' or not. As for police investigations and charges, I don't think charges should be laid unless the victim wants it that way. The problem there is the 'code' in hockey would suggest Moore 'be a man' and not press charges.

I actually think it's worse than McSorley. McSorley was a goon and was trying to goad another goon into a fight. He missed (badly) and whacked the Brashear on the head, who then fell and banged his head off the ice. McSorley was suspended (and his career was effectively ended), which was the right call.

Bertuzzi was going after a player 40+ lbs lighter than himself who had fought someone his own size earlier in the game and since turned down all invitations. It was clear he was not going to fight, so Bertuzzi chased him around the ice, suckered him from behind, and pushed his head into the ice. More premeditated, and I would argue that driving an unconscious or semi-conscious person's head into the ice is far more dangerous than hitting someone with a stick (and if you look at the video, Moore was out on his feet after the punch).

With any luck, Moore will recover completely and Bertuzzi will return in a years time a player with more respect for the game and the players around him. Neither will ever be the same, however.

Finally, I really think Marc Crawford and the NHL deserve a lot of blame for this. Marc Crawford is notorious for sending goons out when games get out of hand, and if he didn't directly instruct his team to get Moore, I guarantee he implied they should once the game got out of hand. Further, while I don't think the league could punish Moore for the hit that started it all (it was cheap because Naslund was in a vulnerable position, but he did not actually break any rules i.e. he didn't charge, jump, elbow, use his stick, hit from behind, etc.), they should have immediately reprimanded Crawford, Brad May, and Bertuzzi for comments effectively putting a bounty on Moore's head and made it clear that any clear revenge tactics would be severely punished.

22

I have been thinking about this alot and about what should the NHL do. I think this situation compares a lot to the Kermit Washington and Rudy Tomjanovich punch from the mid 70’s in the NBA. Incidentally John Feinstein wrote a great book aboiut the Punch. The NBA made an example out of Kermit and fighting in the NBA became close to non existant. I think the law should be left out as well but I think Bertuzzi needs to made an example of. He is a great player who crossed the line, much like Kermit Washington did. Hockey is a great game with a storied history but you can certainly keep the game the same without incidents such as this and the McSorly incident a few years ago.

23

First off, Bertuzzi is not the Team’s enforcer as you might think he is. A guy who racks up 85 and 97 points the last 2 years and 60 point up until the incident is by no mean an enforcer.

I do believe that the suspension was warranted. However, there are numerous instances in the league where someone sucker punches another (not all of them receiving a PIM). I know Bert had no intention of harming Moore (ie breaking his neck, this was a freak accident). It was unfortunate.

Definitely an incident which will hurt the Canucks in the playoffs.

I also think this incident could have been avoided if Moore (one of the team’s enforcer) would have taken Bertuzzi’s challenge and face him for what he did to Naslund. Moore was the coward in this situation.

Now you’re probably thinking that I’m a ‘Nucks fan. Well, I’m not. I’m a Sens’ fan but a true follower of the greatest game on earth. I don’t think that all who commented on this forum have watched the majority of the season let alone strap on some skates and be in the heat of the moment.

Finally, Bertuzzi lost his cool and acted without judgment. I feel bad for him, his team and Steve Moore and his family. As for police involvement, there are a whole more crime to deal with than hockey scraps, seriously.

24

Clearly many people here don’t understand hockey and didn’t even watch what happened, based on how people got simple facts wrong.

I’m not goingto waste time pointing out every small detail that is blatantly wrong with what people said as it would take to long and the just of peoples agruements aren’t that far off for the most part.

25

Good reply Moerte. First of all, this has nothing to do with ANYTHING that has ever happened in a basketball game, PERIOD. Obviously, Bertuzzi did deserve a suspension, but not for next season. The only thing suspending him for next season would do is make (NOT Canadian) sports fans who don’t give a shit about hockey, don’t follow the game, and have never played the game happy. Don’t tell me all of the Detroit and Colorado supporters wouldn’t be a little happy if Bertuzzi missed next season.

If you think the NHL should act anything like the NBA watch Basketball and don’t comment about hockey. A longer suspension would only be political. Making an example out of Bertuzzi might seem like a good idea to increase hockey’s popularity in the States, but I doubt it will work. This isn’t football or basketball and it should be run differently even if ESPN and Sports Illustrated disagree. I’m sure Bertuzzi cares a lot more about hockey than anyone trying to make an example out of him ever will. Or for that matter more than anyone who works as an analyst for major sports networks that usually cover other sports first.

26

It was no doubt a dirty punch and taking Moore to the ice under the force of his(Bertuzzi’s) weight made the situation even worse(that’s probably what fractured his 2 vertebrae), but the police getting involved is silly. It’s a contact sport, people are hit from behind often, even head first into the boards. The police should get involved a couple times week if attacks from behind are assualt, granted there are different severities of back attacks.

27

I’m not sure why people keep talking about whether or not Bertuzzi intended to injure the guy as badly as he did, because it doesn’t matter. If in a street fight you kill a guy when you simply meant to break his nose, you’re still going to be punished for his death. As much as I don’t want to see police involvement in sports, I think it’s necessary in this situation.

28

I think Bertuzzi has had it coming for a while I’ve seen him wack guys and punch guys and he always falls on them with his stick and tries to crush them. He’s a @$%)# idiot is right - hes what 6’4" and 250lbs and he has to fall on his opponents? Come on - he’s out to hurt people and now he’s gotten what he deserves. It’s my opinion that if any player injures another they should both be out for as long as the other person is injured. If Moore is out for 2 seasons or his career is over, then so should Bertuzzi’s.

29

Good points by all. Just a couple things in response to Moerte. First of all, Moore is not one of the Avs enforcers. He is not small, 6’2" and 205lbs according to TSN (which is the number the team gives, meaning he’s probably 190-195 and six foot), but he is a young checking center and had only 37PIM in 57 games. And given that he had already fought in the game, I don’t think he should be expected to fight every one of the many Canucks who challenged him (regardless of size, etc.) just because they want to exact their pound of flesh. It’s not his job to keep fighting till they feel they’ve exacted enough revenge, and turning down Bertuzzi does not make him a coward or even partially justify what happened. Finally, Bertuzzi made it hard on himself by essentially saying his team would get Moore after the incident. It makes it look less like a momentary loss of judgement and more like a premeditated hit.

Just for the record, I am neither an Avs or a 'Nucks fan. Born and raised in Edmonton, I'm a life-long Oiler's fan and grew up watching and playing hockey.

30

I agree with the general consensus. A clean hit is one thing, but a cheap shot like that is not needed in the game.

31

The police have no place in sports whatsoever. You cannot even remotely related street violence and violence in sports and if you think you can you are obviously someone who has never played an intense game. Bertuzzi punched the guy yes but from the footage which by the sounds of it most of you have not seen, its not an obvious thrust to the ice with his stick on the guys face its a fall that could have been accidental, either way every time you fall on someone are you expecting to break someones neck… i would think not. And the mound of people that fell on them afterward was half of avalanche going after bertuzzi so you cant blame the mass of people ontop of him purely on the nucks.

32

to all those saying that it’s assault and should be charged, well then i guess they’re gonna have to go investigate and charge anyone who gets an instigator. So someone instigates a fight, even though the other guy may start to fight back, he could argue self defence. Now cmon, do you really think everyone who instigates should be charged with assault too? Sure bertuzzi’s was worse, i’m in no way defending him and i think he deserves everything they give him, except police involvement. There shouldn’t be any assault or anything imo, unless the league decides that they’re gonna let the police investigate all the “assaults” of instigators and such. Damn, even a lot of normal penalties could be interpreted as assault. (once again, i realize that the sucker punch and driving into the ice is more than just a normal penalty, but the whole assault thing, drop it)

33

One more thing: I’m sure the pile-on after the fact didn’t help Moore’s neck, but Bertuzzi should be thanking Andrei Nikolishin of the Avs. Nikolishin (I think) grabbed Bertuzzi’s arm as he was trying to punch Moore again (Bertuzzi not realizing how badly Moore was hurt, I assume)…if he gets that punch off on a guy who has broken vertebrae in his neck it could have meant paralysis or death and a lot more than a suspension or assault charges for Bertuzzi to deal with.

34

This whole thing is strictly a knee jerk reaction to public outrage…

There has been so many other “hits” on so many other guys (Lemieux V Draper comes to mind) where the intent was the same and the only difference was the severity of the injury.

The NHL is going to have trouble justifying this suspension to the union.

This suspension proves nothing, and fixes nothing.

The only thing that will come of this is when someone else hits somebody in a hellacious manner, you’ll here the announcers say “awww man he got Bertuzzi’d”

The only thing that will come about is when a big hit is laid on someone else

35

The only reason there has been so much discussion about this is because of the outcome (Moore was KO’d, and the impact of him hitting the ice with Bertuzzi on his back was what did the real damage). Had Moore not been KO’d, he would have protected himself when he fell, not been hurt (as bad), and this would not have become the issue that it is.

This in no way excuses the actions of Bertuzzi. It was cheap. I think the suspension is appropriate and fair.

I do not think this was as bad as McSorley. Those who say he was only trying to hit Brashear in the shoulder, so what? You DON’T swing your stick at anyone, anytime, ESPECIALLY near the head.

Bertuzzi was screaming at Moore for a while before he hit him. Moore knew Bertuzzi wanted to go, but wouldn’t acknowledge him. Not that he had to, but it’s not like this just came from out of left field.

Don’t forget it was a 9-2 game as well, which added to an already heated situation.

The punishment fit the crime. Most importantly, I hope that Moore makes a full recovery.

36

This is hockey. If this was the 70’s, 1/2 of every hockey team would be in jail after every single game. The sport has cleaned up significantly. Fighting is encouraged at the pro level, and being a hockey player myself, I know how frustrating the game is. There are times that you want to knock the shit out of someone because they are acting like a dick out there; it comes with the territory. The problem isn’t with this one guy, going after someone and getting revenge is simply part of the game. If he didn’t break the guy’s neck (I’ve seen harder hits that didn’t lead to an injury), nobody would have given it a second thought. The problem should be solved at the highest levels of the sport, removing fighting as an acceptable part of the game. You’ll still have fights, but it will be an automatic suspension. Lets say 3 games. After a year or two of that, the fighting would decrease a lot.

Shit happens in sports, people get hurt all the time.

Do we start jailing pitchers in baseball for beaning someone, or the other pitcher for going after someone on the other team the next inning? Give me a break with all the cops already; the government is already digging way too far in most people’s lives.

This hockey player was made an example by having to miss the rest of the season, and its highly unlikely he wanted to permanently injure the other player. It was a bad move and had serious consequences that he’s gotta live with. At this point I’m sure everyone involved is happy that nobody got killed; it clearly could have been worse. He’s got plenty of time to think and he’s given the league the ammo it needs to finally remove fighting as an accepted part of the sport. They should, there’s no room for overt violence. Anyone who’s played hockey however knows that there is an inherent level of violence in the game. Its simple competition that coupled with the intensity of the sport causes bad situations to arise. Believe me, its WAY better than it was 30 years ago.

37

Assault. IMO plain and simple. Consensual fighting on the other hand is not. The only gray area comes from the NHL’s level of enforcement. The original Moore hit on Naslund was also arguably assault, definitely deserved a major/misconduct yet he got nothing.

That’s bullshit. The police have a place wherever a crime is commited.

No it came from behind. Doesn’t matter if Bertuzzi wrote him a 10 page essay on how he wanted to fight him. Moore did not consent to fighting. Legally that makes it assault.

Ok so maybe it’s aggravated assault - still assault. Are you implying that any team losing by a 7 goal margin should be permitted to get medieval on the winning team?

IMO the issue at hand here is the consistency of enforcement…

38

The police would have some need in sports for the most EXTREME cases. We are talking about an enforcer playing in a league that condones fighting who was simply doing what any other enforcer in the league would have done in the same case. If the “victim” wasn’t injured, nobody would have said a word about it. I have seen worse hits in sports that didn’t yield an injury, including hockey.

Again, is it assault if a pitcher beans a batter in MLB? Who’s the assault on? The first pitcher who might have had one get away or the 2nd one that did it intentionally for payback? If you get hit in the head with a fastball, you are out for a long time.

In this case, the “perp” was wrong. It was a cheap shot, clearly out of bounds, not in the spirit of the event, and out of line. Tell the league to stop condoning fighting (consentual or not) and then you can start prosecuting people that step way out of bounds. I suppose in that case, a fight period is worth the cops stepping in? Give me a break. The injury is the only reason why anyone gives a crap about this. I’ve been hit in hockey, been hit with slap shots, I’ve gone into the boards full speed. I got up from it, but I suppose there’s that instance where I might not get lucky and I might end up being carried off the ice on a stretcher.

People need to realize that shit happens and you can’t just kill the entire game because of one instance. The league is #1 at fault here for condoning overt violence. Fighting is encouraged in the NHL; its part of the show. Go back 30 years and look at the NHL. Its 90% cleaner now. If you want to blame someone, blame the fans for complaining when the NHL attempted to remove fighting entirely from the game about a decade ago. Its amazing how many people come out crying their poor little eyes out when someone actually gets hurt playing an extremely violent sport; cheap shot or not. Look at the protective gear in the NHL and other sports and go back 30 years. Its vastly different. This was brought on by officials of the game (owners, coaches, or officials) coming out and seeing a need for it based on safety concerns. Fighting is probably no different.

This case is very different than your average person on the street. Fighting in public is illegal and is already classified as assault. Fighting is condoned and encouraged in the NHL and people can’t be surprised when someone completely loses it and goes overboard in a senseless act of violence. I don’t recall too many cases where a violent act wasn’t met by another.

39

Shouldn’t this be the ‘NHL Fucked Up Incident?’

I totally agree with the suspension. Something heavy-handed had to be done. But is he a villain? No.

Two weeks ago, a bit of luck and a face mask saved us from this being the ‘Havlat Incident’. Havlat two-handed Recchi across the face and got two games. But because Recchi wasn’t rendered unconcious and didn’t incur serious injury, he gets two games.

Ask Marty McSorely about high sticks to the head. What separates Havlat from McSorley? The freak occurence that the glancing blow to Brashear’s temple knocked him out and Recchi was luck to not be injured.

How many guys get punched in the head and aren’t rendered unconsious? How many guys get high sticked and aren’t knocked cold? What happened to Moore seems to be a one in a thousand kind of occurence.

One thing that McSorely’s and Bertuzzi’s infractions have in common is that they both made contact with the other player’s temple area. So why the hell would the NHL let the players hollow out the foam on the inside of there helmets to make them fit nicer for the TV cameras?

Moreover, the NHL’s fault doesn’t stop there.

Brad May put a bounty out on Steve Moore. The NHL did nothing to publicly address the issue. Sure they told the teams that if anything happened to Moore, fire and brimstone would shoot out of Gary Bettman’s head, but they didn’t publicly address May’s comments.

So there’s Brad May, enforcer extrodinaire, being casterated behind closed doors. Big deal right? Well if you were May, wouldn’t you be concerned with the reputation as an enforcer? Why not say to the press and public that the NHL will not tolerate any repruccusions as a result of the hit Moore knocked Naslund out of play for a week with a concussion?

And if Moore caused Naslund a concussion with a marginal hit, then why was he not suspended? People all over are saying that you have to be responsible for your actions and if you didn’t mean to kill someone, but you did by accident, you still have to pay. It sends the message that anything goes, as long as no one gets hurt real bad.

There’s so much of this outside of what happened within the isolated incident. We’ve been talking about it all day at work and everytime I think of something else, the same thought results:

Bertuzzi is not a Villian.

He did not mean to hurt Moore in any serious way.

The NHL handled this like a joke.

And I wish Steve Moore a quick recovery.

40

Here’s the thing, since when does a sports league’s rulings supercede codified law of the land? What some of you are heading towards is if that dickhead had killed the guy he’d get suspended from his job for what amounts to manslaughter at the very least. One more punch, which he tried to make, would very possibly been fatal.

Rules changed in more than a few sports over the years to keep people from dying on the field. Once the Federal government stepped in to stop football fatalities. Here’s a short blurb on that:

Despite constant rules changes over the years, football was still an extremely violent sport that annually was producing countless major injuries and far too many fatalities. In 1905 it was reported that 18 deaths had resulted nationally from football injuries, 11 of those being high school players; two of them in Illinois. The gridiron sport was on the brink of being outlawed until President Teddy Roosevelt pressured the rule makers into sweeping changes, most notably the legalization of forward passing in 1906.

I’m sure there were people bitching about that and saying, “Hey, that’s football” back then too.

Honestly I don’t give a fuck if people willingly engage in a sport they may be killed in. Extreme skiers bite it once in a while, NASCAR guys do too. I just figure that some things, even in the field of sports, cross the line between expected behavior and just plain fucked up behavior. If the NHL thinks it will sell more tickets if the players engage in gladatorial combat on the ice then so be it.