Seriously, when are they going to stop this? What’s it going to take??
Not even a call on the ice with four officials out there either.
The problem with enforcing hits to the head is that there seems to be a huge amount of variability in what people around the league view as acceptable vs. not. For example, there are plenty of times each game where players make completely legal checks, but contact with the opponent’s head is made. I’ve seen a few potential solutions, but each has its problems:
-
Ban head shots completely. Any contact with the head results in a penalty.
-I think this would be a disaster and would be the last step in Bettman ruining the game completely. -
Let the referee subjectively call penalties for head shots, but “intent” must be present. In other words, even illegal checks wouldn’t fall under the realm of head shots unless they were deemed to cause intent to injure or intent to hit the head.
-The problem here is how to judge intent. NHL refs are just awful when it comes to every other subjective part of the game, I don’t trust them to get this right. -
Institute a “headshot” penalty, and let it be subjectively called. Doesn’t have to involve intent, it just has to pass a threshold of severity as deemed by the league.
-The problem here is the same as in #2. -
Get rid of the instigator. This doesn’t address head shots directly, but many feel that by getting rid of the instigator, on-ice policing would become more effective and incidents like the above would decrease in frequency.
-The problem here is that there isn’t a chance in hell of this happening.
Rule #4. I couldn’t agree more. If that asshole thought someone was going to punch his head in the next shift out maybe he woudn’t have layed him out. The guy was even smiling on the bench.
Not much love for Bettman in Canada and never will be.
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios.
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios. [/quote]
He threw his elbow into his face/head. He as well technically had his head up after he shot the puck, following it. How do you call that clean?
A simple game suspension would suffice. But as said before, chances are it won’t happen.
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios. [/quote]
He threw his elbow into his face/head. He as well technically had his head up after he shot the puck, following it. How do you call that clean?
A simple game suspension would suffice. But as said before, chances are it won’t happen.[/quote]
There was talk on the local news this afternoon of Cooke getting a game suspension … my problem with this is he wasn’t called for a penalty which brings the referees incompetence into the picture. If he does get a suspension what are the referees going to receive for blowing the call?
[quote]polo77j wrote:
There was talk on the local news this afternoon of Cooke getting a game suspension … my problem with this is he wasn’t called for a penalty which brings the referees incompetence into the picture. If he does get a suspension what are the referees going to receive for blowing the call?[/quote]
Nothing, because you can’t prove a negative.
[quote]polo77j wrote:
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios. [/quote]
He threw his elbow into his face/head. He as well technically had his head up after he shot the puck, following it. How do you call that clean?
A simple game suspension would suffice. But as said before, chances are it won’t happen.[/quote]
There was talk on the local news this afternoon of Cooke getting a game suspension … my problem with this is he wasn’t called for a penalty which brings the referees incompetence into the picture. If he does get a suspension what are the referees going to receive for blowing the call?[/quote]
Some times it can just be simply missed. Not really an excuse when there is four officials however, only two who can make penalty “calls”. You can pretty much end someone’s career with a hit like that. Not only the hit that would hurt but also the way you can hit the ice can have its consequences.
Oh jeeez, just like when Raiki knocked Sutton outa da playoffs in Tunder Bey. Poor guy came outa da hospital just in time for da finals all wrapped in a bandage, cryin’ like my aunt Maggie talkin 'bout “I ain’t never WATCHED a game in my life!!”
Tears at your heart for sure ya know.
In rugby it’s handled with any hit to the head (as in shoulder, forearm or a coathanger) is a minor penalty. No questions asked, no appeal.
If the referee deems it to be severe or intentional then it can be placed on report (to be assessed after the game whether it warrants a penalty over and above what the ref can instigate), and the player can be sin-binned for 10 minutes or the entire game. (Rugby games go for 80 minutes).
It’s the only real way to handle it, since players know that ANY contact is a penalty and entirely out of the refs hands.
Once there is contact, they know the ref can send them away for a looong time and that they risk missing games if the videotape looks bad; conversely if it’s innocent then they don’t have to worry about repercussions past the current game.
You gotta give the umpire some leeway, but if you want the players to stop doing it then they have to be certain they’ll be penalised.
I agree with the mandatory penalty for a shot to the head. They will never get rid of the instigator rule. Its too bad, because there used to be “code” amoung men, in all walks of life. Unfortunately, time and time again, men can get away with being assholes, being disrespectful, and downright dangerous, and suffering absolutely NO consequences. There is some dirty, dirty play going on in the NHL, but there is no un-complicated, subjective way to fix it. I will be surprised if they dont come out with the “head check” penalty for next season. There already is such a rule in many junior leagues here in the big white north.
On the topic of hockey injuries, when the fuck are they going institute no touch icing???
I am for
That is a tough call. I dont think you can prove that he was intentionally trying to hit him in the head.
[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
Oh jeeez, just like when Raiki knocked Sutton outa da playoffs in Tunder Bey. Poor guy came outa da hospital just in time for da finals all wrapped in a bandage, cryin’ like my aunt Maggie talkin 'bout “I ain’t never WATCHED a game in my life!!”
Tears at your heart for sure ya know.[/quote]
LOL, Youngblood was the first time I ever saw a naked chick in a movie. Still remember it to this day.
As for the play in question, it was an unfortunate injury. I can understand the anger because I would definitely be pissed if that were Crosby lying there KOed on the ice.
Earlier this year:
Richards wasn’t penalized, suspended, or fined. That is the precedent that’s been set, so until rules change, you can’t penalize, suspend, or fine Cooke.
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios. [/quote]
He threw his elbow into his face/head. He as well technically had his head up after he shot the puck, following it. How do you call that clean?
A simple game suspension would suffice. But as said before, chances are it won’t happen.[/quote]
Are you confused between a shoulder and an elbow? Elbows are 100% totally different as your intent to hit up high is clearly there. Using your shoulder (and being taller than another skater) makes it difficult to hit low. Those two are virtually the same height I think but it was unfortunate he was shooting as it causes his head to stick out some.
I didn’t say it was a clean hit… just more clean than dirty. A penalty should have been given but I don’t think under these circumstances it should be a suspension. Maybe thats just coming from me where I’ve seen plenty of hits like these in jr and aaa with no series repercussions.
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios. [/quote]
He threw his elbow into his face/head. He as well technically had his head up after he shot the puck, following it. How do you call that clean?
A simple game suspension would suffice. But as said before, chances are it won’t happen.[/quote]
Are you confused between a shoulder and an elbow? Elbows are 100% totally different as your intent to hit up high is clearly there. Using your shoulder (and being taller than another skater) makes it difficult to hit low. Those two are virtually the same height I think but it was unfortunate he was shooting as it causes his head to stick out some.
I didn’t say it was a clean hit… just more clean than dirty. A penalty should have been given but I don’t think under these circumstances it should be a suspension. Maybe thats just coming from me where I’ve seen plenty of hits like these in jr and aaa with no series repercussions.
[/quote]
I agree with you 100%. Having given and taken plenty of open ice hits, I can tell you that a hit happens so fast that you barely know what happened, even if you are doing the hitting. Its easy to look at the slow-motion replay and say that it was dirty, but watch it again in full speed and you can’t tell me that he could have changed direction that fast. That particular hit looked like all shoulder to me, and right about when the puck was released. Also, like Rico said, height of the players makes a difference. I’m taller than most people I’ve played against, and I took LOTS of elbowing calls in college, mostly because during a hit my elbow would naturally contact a shorter guy in the face, especially when he was bent over shooting or passing.
I think this was Cooke’s third time being involved in a questionable hit. I also think he knew exactly what he was doing and where his elbow/shoulder was going to land. He was chuckling about it on the bench…guilty of douchbagery your honour.
I have to find slapshot on dvd. “Dey go to da penalty box for two minetes and feel shame”
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios. [/quote]
He threw his elbow into his face/head. He as well technically had his head up after he shot the puck, following it. How do you call that clean?
A simple game suspension would suffice. But as said before, chances are it won’t happen.[/quote]
Are you confused between a shoulder and an elbow? Elbows are 100% totally different as your intent to hit up high is clearly there. Using your shoulder (and being taller than another skater) makes it difficult to hit low. Those two are virtually the same height I think but it was unfortunate he was shooting as it causes his head to stick out some.
I didn’t say it was a clean hit… just more clean than dirty. A penalty should have been given but I don’t think under these circumstances it should be a suspension. Maybe thats just coming from me where I’ve seen plenty of hits like these in jr and aaa with no series repercussions.
[/quote]
I agree as well. We’re not talking about something like Domi’s hit on Niedermayer in 2001 (yeah, showing my age), this was an open ice hit delivered immediately after the puck was released.
Unfortunately things like this happen in sports. How many times have you seen a wide receiver get pummeled mid-air because of a bad throw that left him vulnerable? I think this is pretty similar. Savard’s shot left him in a compromised position and not prepared to take the hit. It also doesn’t help that it was a left handed shot and the hit came from the right giving Cooke’s shoulder direct access to to Savard’s head.
The slow motion replay makes it look a lot worse because it seems that Cooke’s hit was late. But when you take into account the normal speed of the game, he did not have time to change direction.
Richards did not receive a suspension because: “he did not target Booth’s head; he did not leave his feet to deliver the blow; he did not hit an unsuspecting player; he is not a repeat offender; and he did not hit Booth late, as it was determined the blow was delivered less than a half-second after Booth passed the puck” (No suspension for Flyers' Richards | NHL.com - News). It will be interesting to see what happens to Cooke. In both cases a hit from the right on a left handed shooter could arguably be classified as a hit on an unsuspecting player.
Never-the-less, it is a tragedy and hopefully Savard will make a full recovery.
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
[quote]Rico Suave wrote:
head shots are part of the game and will continue to happen whether or not there are penalties for them.
BTW, that hit was clean more than dirty. Too much variability goes on with these kinds of scenarios. [/quote]
He threw his elbow into his face/head. He as well technically had his head up after he shot the puck, following it. How do you call that clean?
A simple game suspension would suffice. But as said before, chances are it won’t happen.[/quote]
Are you confused between a shoulder and an elbow? Elbows are 100% totally different as your intent to hit up high is clearly there. Using your shoulder (and being taller than another skater) makes it difficult to hit low. Those two are virtually the same height I think but it was unfortunate he was shooting as it causes his head to stick out some.
I didn’t say it was a clean hit… just more clean than dirty. A penalty should have been given but I don’t think under these circumstances it should be a suspension. Maybe thats just coming from me where I’ve seen plenty of hits like these in jr and aaa with no series repercussions.
[/quote]
Okay, thanks for the calification.
However, I believe a game suspension should be given on a elbow or something that involves a little dirtier than a shoulder. Even then if that is introduced (for elbow to the head or close to it) I think hits to the head even with the shoulder would cease. Just my opinion.
.