The Basics of Muscle Building

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
However, can it not be agreed upon that TBT style training is optimal for beginners as opposed to a split?

For example, I have been using an Upper/Lower split for the past few months, while a friend of mine has been doing TBT. While I have been eating better and more than he has, he has made much better gains than me.
(Did that sound like a poem?)

I wouldn’t even say that. I have ALWAYS used splits. How could you say my results were “inferior” when I made progress faster than most?

Are you sure you replied to the right post?
I have never claimed that your gains have been ‘inferior’ (I’ve never even seen pictures of you). I’m just asking whether or not split training is sufficient (frequency wise) for newbies.

To be honest, as a beginner myself, after reading threads like this I get VERY confused. On the one hand I hear that TBT training is fantastic for beginners because newbies respond better to more frequent stimulation and compound lifts, on the other hand I hear people like you advocating splits and bashing TBT like there is and should be only one way to train.

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against split training (I actually prefer training that way), but sometimes the information is so conflicting (especially when it appears that an author doesn’t seem to know what he is talking about after all) that I am left honestly not knowing which way to go.

I thought frequent, whole body workouts were ideal for beginners while splits were more befitting advanced trainers. Obviously this is another ‘misconception’ among a shitload of others that seems to be infecting the internet.

You have seen me “bash” the idea of that a newbie needs to avoid ALL isolation movements. The entire idea makes no sense. If you want to train “TBT”, do so all you want to. Just don’t think that by avoiding working certain muscle groups directly this will somehow lead to optimal growth and development. The only reason the acronym exists is so that people can sell things. No one is against “compound exercises”.

You are confused because for an author to stand out and make his product seem greater than all others, he MUST put down something in the process. Consider yourself a victim of business. Sadly, it may be years before some people figure that out.

You wrote:
However, can it not be agreed upon that TBT style training is optimal for beginners as opposed to a split?

This implies that any beginner not doing “TBT” is training SUB-optimally. Do you understand now? No one misunderstood your previous post. It was understood and moved past.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply. My head is spinning less.

42

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:

I thought frequent, whole body workouts were ideal for beginners while splits were more befitting advanced trainers. Obviously this is another ‘misconception’ among a shitload of others that seems to be infecting the internet.

Are you making good gains while on the total body workouts? Do you have fun while doing them? If so, don’t sweat it. When the gains start slowing/stopping, try something new. Eventually you’ll find that your body responds well to certain exercises and training methodologies.

Seriously, I think there is way too much overthinking going on here. [/quote]

I think this is the problem. Honestly, I sometimes wish I would never have read all the articles that I have.

Thanks for the reply.

43

[quote]IQ wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
Are you sure you replied to the right post?
I have never claimed that your gains have been ‘inferior’ (I’ve never even seen pictures of you). I’m just asking whether or not split training is sufficient (frequency wise) for newbies.

To be honest, as a beginner myself, after reading threads like this I get VERY confused. On the one hand I hear that TBT training is fantastic for beginners because newbies respond better to more frequent stimulation and compound lifts, on the other hand I hear people like you advocating splits and bashing TBT like there is and should be only one way to train.

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against split training (I actually prefer training that way), but sometimes the information is so conflicting (especially when it appears that an author doesn’t seem to know what he is talking about after all) that I am left honestly not knowing which way to go.

I thought frequent, whole body workouts were ideal for beginners while splits were more befitting advanced trainers. Obviously this is another ‘misconception’ among a shitload of others that seems to be infecting the internet.

I’m sure others are more qualified to answer this but I have found the only way to settle this kind of confusion is to try them both. Try TBT for 2 months followed by splits for 2 months while keeping your diet fairly consistent (of course calories may need to increase if you gain weight).

Once you have finished the experiment stick with the one which has produced better results (strength, size etc.). Also bear in mind that splits doesn’t mean that you only do isolation movements, it simply means you are focusing on certain muscle groups, we may use splits but we can still squat, bench press, deadlift etc.[/quote]

Yeah, of course I don’t avoid compounds. It’s just that frequency has always been an issue for me.

It’s funny - My arms practically only grew during a three week semi-cutting phase (meh… I had a shortage of food) where I started training them 3 times a week (just for the heck of it), going to failure during work out.

44

I agree with Professor X completely. That’s one problem with this website-the authors have a cult-like following with some people and take every fuckin’ word as religion.

You know what all beginners need to do? They need a book that contains a list of exercises, and what muscle groups they work (i.e. Strength Training Anatomy); also get a book written by Mr. Olympias, or other professional bodybuilders. Then, with that book, stick them in a gym with a bench, barbell, squat rack, pull up bar, dumbbells, weight plates, and a multi-station machine.

The the mother fuckers should read that book, apply whats in it, experiment with routines (tbt. vs split) for an adequate time, eat right, and train enough. Then, once they find what works best for them, read the articles on here and APPLY WHAT IS USEFUL, and reject what is useless.

Is that so fucking hard for noobs to do nowadays?

45

[quote]IQ wrote:
I’m sure others are more qualified to answer this but I have found the only way to settle this kind of confusion is to try them both.[/quote]

Exactly. If you’re serious about getting results, you have to experiment with your own body. This is easy for beginners because when a beginner hits on the right combination of training and diet, the gains come very fast.

When I started training several decades ago, I followed Arthur Jones’s training methods for the first two years. In that whole time I gained less than ten pounds of muscle.

I thought the problem was me because I was following the method in the the book and the book was obviously right.

So I trained even harder. I trained so hard I threw up at every workout.

I thought I was a hard gainer. I thought I was genetically disadvantaged.

Two years was wasted on a method that didn’t work for me.

Then one day I tried something else, a three-part split with one day centered on squats or deadlifts. Instantly my muscles began to explode, and I gained 32 pounds of muscle in less than five months. (All natural.)

Why did I waste two years following a method that didn’t work for me? Because I didn’t know that if I experimented I could find a different method that produced more than six pounds of muscle per month.

Bottom line: Take what the “authorities” say as suggestions to be tested by trying them out. Keep trying till you get good results. If you get lousy results, don’t assume it’s bad genetics. Experiment.

46

[quote]Fulmen wrote:
Is that so fucking hard for noobs to do nowadays? [/quote]

Apparently.

Actualy, this entire thread illustrates it quite well.

Instead of discussing the real fundamentals of training, like manipulating time under tension, set and rep ranges, training different strength qualities,- It breaks down into TBT vs. Splits, author camps, and a myriad of other things that are not the basics of muscle building.

47

Listen ,
you do 60 to 80% of your sets for the big stuff like dealifts , squats , bench press , dips , rows , chin ups , M.press , upright rows.

THEN you go to the cable pulley , and do some ISO work for your lagging parts that don’t get as much stimuli from the heavy movements (if your triceps lag behind your pecs and delts in a bench , you should seriously consider closing your grip an inch for each arm though…)

and go do dropsets , EDT or whatever you like , it won’t be hard to recover from that , do higher reps , get pumped , stretch your muscle to make room for growth , basically shred it.

also GPP is an important part even in bodybuilding , since I seem to get closer and closer to heart failure after some reps with a dubble bodyweight and some more… and I’m not even 18.

so it’s a good Idea to do stuff like EDT full body cardio , tabata , sprints or w\e.

and the last thing about training is variation , you will probably react less and less for a given workout scheme as you close in to the 6-10th week you might not respond close to what you could

as changing and mixing things up ( but not too much so you don’t bother finding the right weight for your sets and etc)
help a lot to keep the gains coming.
also doing stuff like one total body vertical workout and the next time use horizontal movements…

it will lengthen the time you can stay on a given routine with good results.

yet still you won’t get big if you don’t eat enough in the right times. and sleep good and long enough, take rests etc.

48

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Fulmen wrote:
Is that so fucking hard for noobs to do nowadays?

Apparently.

Actualy, this entire thread illustrates it quite well.

Instead of discussing the real fundamentals of training, like manipulating time under tension, set and rep ranges, training different strength qualities,- It breaks down into TBT vs. Splits, author camps, and a myriad of other things that are not the basics of muscle building.
[/quote]

Right you are SkyzykS,

So, let’s get down to discussing the real basics of building muscle. Now, I’m sure that these have been posted countless times before, and if anyone can add anything to my list please do so.

Here are (from my experience)what I would list to be the basics of building muscle:

  1. Excess calories. I would place eating a surplus of calories as the #1 most important factor in building muscle. If you’re not eating more calories than you’re expending, then you won’t make optimal gains.

  2. Progressive overload. You need to expose your musculature to increasingly greater workloads over time if you want it to continually make improvements in muscular size/strength.

  3. Intensity. Not only do you need to expose your body to increasingly greater loads. But, the loads must be sufficient enough to cause your body to recruit all of it’s muscle fibers/motor units. Marathon runners continually expose their bodies to greater and greater workloads, but because the intensity is insufficient to recruit their high force Motor units, they don’t build appreciable amounts of muscle.

  4. Consistency. If you expose your body to an intense overload, but don’t do so again for an extended period of time; then your body will make the adaptation initially, but once it realizes that the overload wasn’t something that it will need to overcome on a regular basis it won’t hold onto that muscle. The body is extremely efficient and while we might wish it did, it doesn’t necessarily see carrying around large amounts of muscle as a high priority (unless there is a specific need to do so).

I’m sure there are more building blocks that others might come up with, but in my experience, the above fundamentals are the most important foundational components to building muscle.

In regards to the whole TBT vs. Split argument. I think anyone who hasn’t already done so should read CT’s article:
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=07-035-training

Personally I prefer to have true beginners (people who don’t come from an athletic background) perform TBT programs at the beginning of their resistance training careers. The reason being that this generally allows them more opportunities to practice the lifts.

This is important because initially the goal is to teach someone how to recruit their muscles, and build the neuromuscular coordination to perform the basic exercises. Generally TBT programs are performed more times per week, which means more practice performing them.

But, I also agree with others that this doesn’t necessarily mean doing only compound movements, or neglecting “isolation” exercises entirely. Generally, a beginner’s TBT routine should contain 1 basic exercise for each major muscle group, some being “isolation” exercises and some being “compound” exercises.

Once you’ve gotten good at recruiting your muscles and you’ve gained the coordination to perform the lifts well, then it’s up to you to experiment and find out which set/rep schemes, exercises, and type of workout programs your body responds best to.

That’s my opinion anyway.

Good training,

Sentoguy

49

Is this thread really a debate over whether “isolation” exercises should be used in a hypertrophy-based program? Oy vey. This site must have a disproportionate # of members of the Flat Earth Society, too.

50

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Is this thread really a debate over whether “isolation” exercises should be used in a hypertrophy-based program? Oy vey. This site must have a disproportionate # of members of the Flat Earth Society, too.[/quote]

They believe EVERYTHING they read from some authors. I’ve personally never seen anything like it. Some of these guys must have absolutely no people in their lives they can look up to in terms of strength training or even simple weight lifting basics.

51

Hm, looking at the amount and frequency of postings by some members it looks like my gym isn’t the only one closed on Easter…

My 2 Eurocents:

  • Get plenty real food
  • Get plenty real rest
  • Do plenty real heavy exercise
  • Do what you need and still can on iso’s

Repeat

52

quoted this from Thib’s article about the training handbook, i’m pretty sure this will settle this whole shit. It is referring to TBT training.

“? Can lead to unbalanced development. Using only compound movements might lead to an under-stimulation of some muscle groups because the body will use the muscles best suited to do the job during compound movements. As a result, your weaknesses won’t improve as much as your strengths: CON, especially if you’re after the development of a balanced physique.”

53

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
quoted this from Thib’s article about the training handbook, i’m pretty sure this will settle this whole shit. It is referring to TBT training.

“? Can lead to unbalanced development. Using only compound movements might lead to an under-stimulation of some muscle groups because the body will use the muscles best suited to do the job during compound movements. As a result, your weaknesses won’t improve as much as your strengths: CON, especially if you’re after the development of a balanced physique.”

[/quote]

Why should there be a problem with throwing some iso-movements into the fullbody-workout? Superset the Curls with the Triceps Extensions train some calfs. Can’t really see why that should be a problem.

54

[quote]Misterhamper wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
quoted this from Thib’s article about the training handbook, i’m pretty sure this will settle this whole shit. It is referring to TBT training.

“? Can lead to unbalanced development. Using only compound movements might lead to an under-stimulation of some muscle groups because the body will use the muscles best suited to do the job during compound movements. As a result, your weaknesses won’t improve as much as your strengths: CON, especially if you’re after the development of a balanced physique.”

Why should there be a problem with throwing some iso-movements into the fullbody-workout? Superset the Curls with the Triceps Extensions train some calfs. Can’t really see why that should be a problem.[/quote]

It’s not a problem. The biggest problem is that for most of these guys full-body=no iso and split=no compound. This is beyond idiotic. The terms splits or full body refer to training methods, not the execises used. This misconception has dominated EVERY discussion of this nature I have ever read.

55

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
However, can it not be agreed upon that TBT style training is optimal for beginners as opposed to a split?

From a common sense standpoint I never really understood why TBT is even considered optimal for newbies. I think for a person new to weights to walk into the gym and only be “allowed” to do compound movement after compound movement is lifting suicide. After lift one I can only imagine what lift two’s form would look like. And after those, let’s have them hit the bench press.

When I was beginning, it was mentally easier for me to know I had only to focus on one body part that day. Call me mentally weak, but if I knew I had my whole body to work I probably would have half-assed my prior lifts for fear of later failure on the bench or squat. Not real good considering that compound lift was only one I would be doing for that body part that day. Tell me how this is an optimal training method for newbies again?

56

[quote]cjjames9 wrote:
From a common sense standpoint I never really understood why TBT is even considered optimal for newbies. I think for a person new to weights to walk into the gym and only be “allowed” to do compound movement after compound movement is lifting suicide. After lift one I can only imagine what lift two’s form would look like. And after those, let’s have them hit the bench press.

When I was beginning, it was mentally easier for me to know I had only to focus on one body part that day. Call me mentally weak, but if I knew I had my whole body to work I probably would have half-assed my prior lifts for fear of later failure on the bench or squat. Not real good considering that compound lift was only one I would be doing for that body part that day. Tell me how this is an optimal training method for newbies again?
[/quote]

That’s a good point and it doesn’t just relate to newbies. There is no way I could train several large muscle groups on the same day. I wouldn’t be able to give enough attention to shoulders if I was training chest and back on the same day. Most people would end up holding back on the early exercises in the routine just so they could have enough in them to finish strong. It may work for some, but it wouldn’t be optimal for me.