[quote]jacross wrote:
quietpro wrote:
I have to back up the real Aussies here, lacross and Bundy among other. Somebody finally decided to do something about the problem… this should’ve happend a long time ago. It’s the same story all over the world.
So you are saying I’m not a real aussie? Fucking lucky you get to hide behind an internet screen with comments like that. What a hero.[/quote]
The way I read it, he was calling you a real aussie.
How’s that for differing interpretations.
[quote]jacross wrote:
quietpro wrote:
I have to back up the real Aussies here, lacross and Bundy among other. Somebody finally decided to do something about the problem… this should’ve happend a long time ago. It’s the same story all over the world.
So you are saying I’m not a real aussie? Fucking lucky you get to hide behind an internet screen with comments like that. What a hero.[/quote]
Gotta agree with Vyapada, I think he was calling you a real aussie, and referring to me as someone who was not.
However jacross, you did say exactly what I wanted to say.
And now I have two questions for quietpro;
What is your definition of a true aussie? and
Please tell me how this is similar to a situation anywhere else in the world.
One of the thing that bugs me this situation is ths new laws to help control the situation. They are reactionary and skirt the real issule which is lack of police funding. This is the reason why things got so bad in cranulla in the first place. The cops would have got reports of groups of young men causing trouble for months. But they are forced to prioritize and, unfortunatly, this means that small problems fester and grow into much bigger ones. Cops need more funding NOT new laws, reactionary legislation is pointless because it will only help if there is another riot, not help prevent the riot in the first place. I guess its cheaper to legislate and been seen to be acting then to actually do something and increase funding.
On an aside a buddy of mine is a cop (in Melbourne so maybe different situation to Sydney) and he recons that there are equal number of rapist/assulters/troublemakes in all ethnic groups and that income of parents is a much better gauge of wether someone will break the law in a violent way or not. It is usually the spin put on by sensationalist media that makes it seem that certain racial groups are worse than others.
If you haven’t got an education, if
You haven’t got any chance of getting employment
You can’t speak english, and/or
You commit crimes against society
Then fuck off Aussie’s don’t want you!
No matter what race you are.
Oh I get it when he said lacross he is referring to me.
I study Science and Law at university too, can’t you tell?
Well in that case, I consider myself to be a good person, I said the riots were really really fucking stupid earlier, and I do enjoy Blokesworld, I possibly withdraw my earlier comment depending on what you actually say next.
Oh wait I reread your post.
I’m not for the riots I’m against them. I just think d.mac was being a bit of a dick too that’s all. I kind of like him now though.
[quote]Alphaboy wrote:
If you haven’t got an education, if
You haven’t got any chance of getting employment
You can’t speak english, and/or
You commit crimes against society
Then fuck off Aussie’s don’t want you!
No matter what race you are.[/quote]
Sounds like my cousins.
Point 1: Well it depends on what you mean. Are we talking about skilled migrants? It depends on what you want. My fiancee’s parents only completed primary school (common in Philippines as its a poor country) however they have both been employed the entire time they have been here and are ‘productive members of society’.
Point 2: I agree
Point 3: I’ll give you a chance to learn it in a refugee situation. However I’m not expecting you to be fluent. You can have an accent (thick as hell) and you can stumble sometimes. My fiancee’s parents still have a bit of an accent from migrating from the Philippines and they have been here for 30+ years. That’s just how it is. I also don’t have a problem with people speaking another language in public (I shouldn’t be eavesdropping). Just be able to speak english when you need to.
Point 4: That is probably the best one. I don’t care about your colour, your creed, religion, personality, fluency in English. Just don’t break any laws.
Of course as a libertarian I don’t agree with many crimes being crimes but you get my idea.
The police have had such a ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to this as well. Footage of the NSW beaches today on the news showed that they were as quiet as a weekday in winter. It looked like there were more police than beach goers in a lot of spots.
Here on the Gold Coast, police cautioned a number of people for singing ‘Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi’ (our national sporting chant!!) from one of the pub balconies.
There was also police in their flak jackets in Cavil Mall.
All of the Gold Coast action started from a ‘prank’ SMS that was circulated and then way overdone by the local media.
I’m obviously not an Aussie, but I thought this was a good article:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17580509%255E7583,00.html
Keith Windschuttle: Ghetto youth a multiculturalist legacy
December 16, 2005
IT was inevitable, given the prevailing mind-set within government and the media, that Sydney’s beachside violence this week would be called race riots.
The New South Wales Premier, his ministers and many newspaper headlines all used the term.
However, a more ungainly but nonetheless more accurate description would have been multicultural riots.
For the doctrine of multiculturalism is really to blame.
The tensions that exploded this week were defined into existence by multiculturalist policies and ideas.
It wasn’t the youths at Cronulla beach who decided that all Lebanese constitute an ethnic group.
That was done for them by politicians, bureaucrats and academics in the name of constructing ethnic communities.
Those youths certainly can be blamed for trying to beat up a few outnumbered innocents but not for responding to people as ethnics in the first place.
In earlier periods, Lebanese immigrants were not defined as an ethnic group.
Lebanon is one of the oldest sources of Australian migration.
People have been coming from that country since the 1880s.
They were never defined as aliens under the old White Australia Policy and their numbers gradually grew from 601 in 1891 to 2670 in 1933.
Until 1975, almost all were Maronites or Christian Lebanese.
They prospered here, married into the local community and, within two generations, became largely indistinguishable from the Australian mainstream.
One of their offspring, Nick Shehadie, a former lord mayor of Sydney and the husband of NSW Governor Marie Bashir, captained the Wallabies in three of 30 Tests for his country.
How Australian can you get?
After 1975, the onset of civil war brought Lebanese Muslims here on grounds of humanitarian resettlement.
At the same time, the policy of multiculturalism was initiated by the Whitlam Government and entrenched under Malcolm Fraser.
Multiculturalism began and, until recently, was regarded by most Australians as a civilised concept to ease immigrants into their new environment.
But it became corrupted by partisan politics. As former Labor Government minister Barry Jones has admitted, immigration became “a tremendously important element” in building up a long-term, non-English-speaking political constituency for his party.
In the 1980s immigration policy switched from national interest to ethnic preference, from demographic and labour market need to family reunion.
In the name of cultural diversity, the bureaucrats in charge used welfare and housing policy to promote ethnic community building.
This concentrated non-English-speaking immigrants in western and southwestern Sydney.
Most affected were the post-1975 Lebanese Muslims. By 2001, 73 per cent of all Lebanese in Australia were living in these Sydney suburbs.
Multicultural policy was always justified by the assumption that the xenophobia of old Australia was the problem.
This presumption still reverberates in the voices of politicians and journalists who have responded to this week’s events as if Australian youths are the real culprits.
Hypocritically, they denounce racial stereotyping of ethnic groups but freely typecast Anglo Australia.
Multiculturalism is also at odds with the core tenets of liberal democracy, where rights inhere in the individual, not the collective, and where people’s representatives are elected politicians, not self-appointed ethnic spokesmen or godfathers.
Multiculturalism is a reversion to tribalism that is anachronistic in a modern, liberal, urban society.
In Sydney it has been plain for at least a decade that, instead of ethnic communities living happily in the diversity of social pluralism, multiculturalism has bred ethnic ghettos characterised by high levels of unemployment, welfare dependency, welfare abuse, crime and violence.
The social engineers responsible should have been well aware of the likely outcome, especially for young men.
All the evidence from the numerous studies of similar ethnic ghettos in North America and Europe show they produce much the same result, whatever the colour or ethnicity of their inhabitants.
Ghetto culture for young men everywhere is characterised by interpersonal violence, sexual irresponsibility, incomplete education, substandard speech, a hypersensitivity about being disrespected and a feckless attitude towards work.
The Lebanese assaults on the Cronulla lifesavers that led to this week’s mass retaliation were nothing new.
This behaviour has been with us for more than a decade.
When the former principal of Punchbowl Boys High, a school dominated by Lebanese Muslim youth, suffered a breakdown and sued the NSW government, he gave an insight to the local culture.
Between 1995 and 1999, students armed with knives had threatened classmates, teachers were assaulted and gangs invaded classrooms.
On one occasion, the principal had a gun held to his head by a Lebanese gang member who threatened to shoot him.
One of his students was convicted of murdering a Korean schoolboy and three other students were jailed for their roles in some of Sydney’s most notorious gang rapes.
In 1997, during a house fire in another Sydney ethnic ghetto at Auburn, known as Little Lebanon, police and firefighters were attacked by youths hurling rocks.
An ambulance had a window shot out, ensuring all future ambulance calls to the locality were accompanied by police escort.
Little Lebanon was a concentration of Muslim families from the same rural district who had come to Australia first as refugees, then as chain immigrants.
At the same time as all of this was going on, however, most Anglo Australians were giving the lie to the stereotype of latent racism.
Outside the ethnic enclaves, instead of racist or ethnocentric attitudes to newcomers, old Australians were working with, marrying and having children with them.
Studies by Monash University’s Bob Birrell of the most revealing test of immigrant integration, the marriage rate, showed that by the end of the ‘90s less than 10 per cent of second-generation marriages of people of European descent were to someone from their parents’ country.
Much the same was true of immigrants from south and east Asia.
Only 6 per cent of Indians married within their ethnic group, as did only 18 per cent of Chinese.
In short, most immigrants, whatever their race, married Australians of other nationalities.
However, for the Lebanese, of whom most of marriageable age were Muslims, these figures were reversed.
No less than 74 per cent of Lebanese brides and 61 per cent of Lebanese grooms married within their own ethnic group.
Moreover, these figures had increased since the early '90s, when they were about six percentage points lower.
This pattern may have fulfilled the community-building objective sought by Lebanese political and religious leaders, but it has been a disaster for their constituents’ relationship with the rest of Australia.
Put this week’s beachside violence into its political and social context, and the conclusion is clear.
It is not race that is the problem but culture.
Multiracialism has been a success in contemporary Australia but multiculturalism has been an abject failure.
Keith Windschuttle’s most recent book is The White Australia Policy (Macleay Press, 2004).
[quote]gotaknife wrote:
It is usually the spin put on by sensationalist media that makes it seem that certain racial groups are worse than others.[/quote]
Gotta agree with this.
And cheers jacross, you’re not too bad yourself.
[quote]Alphaboy wrote:
If you haven’t got an education, if
You haven’t got any chance of getting employment
You can’t speak english, and/or
You commit crimes against society
Then fuck off Aussie’s don’t want you!
No matter what race you are.[/quote]
Just some of my own comments and extensions on your points.
In regards to:
Point 1, unless of course they intend to receive education over here, ie coming here for tertiary study.
Point 2, I think in many cases it’s not the matter of being unable to gain employment but rather the intention of the individual to not bother seeking out employment.
Point 3, I would say some basic level of English would be required but then this also depends on the situation. Ie my grandmother doesn’t speak english but my grandfather knows enough english to get him through the grocery store etc.
Point 4, I agree with and this also applies to Australians visiting other countries. Abide by their laws so I don’t have to see it plastered all over the media.