The Androgel Trap

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]drimmdave wrote:
Well I had my appt. with the Endo. today.Whaddaya know my T is low 225
total,but about middle of the range
for free T.I don’t remember LH or FSH,but they were on the low side.So now he wants me to go three more weeks with out my HRT,he said that my brain should be doing something to make more T but for some reason it is not upset about the low T. He wants one more set of numbers to try to determine if it’s in my balls or pituitary.If it’s in my balls,no problem back on HRT,if it,s in the pit. then off to MRI my head.
So any way I have three more weeks of Hell and feeling like shit.[/quote]

I must admit that I’d go off on that doctor. He is sentencing you to 3 weeks of misery. Unless your insurance plan really sucks, he should just order an MRI. I always used to think highly of doctors, but after my experiences…

Is he checking your thyroid? Your GH?

You should be on Testim to see if you get better results than from Androgel.

42

I can’t believe this thread. All of the posts sound so familiar. I also had low test. level…was around 175 or so. I was put on androderm 2.5 and level went to about 450 - 500. Primary physician said this was OK and left it at that. I still felt like shit.

Got married about a year later(now my wife feels like shit…ha ha), tried to have children and nothing happened. Wife and I went to an endocrinologist / fertility doc.
(Will skip details and get to main point) Come to find out after several tests, CT scan, semen analysis, etc., I was the problem. Doctor changed my androderm to 5 mg/day androgel. He said the the so called normal test level was too low, an active male my age (36) should have a level of around 850.

Back to the tests, I had NO sperm but everything worked normal I was just “shooting blanks”. I have worked out consistently since I was a teenager and have used AAS a lot. I was afraid that may be the problem but the endocrinologist said he didn’t think so, I hadn’t taken anything for about a year.

My testost., FSH, LH were low. I was put on HCG (I forgot the dosage), about 6 months later, still no sperm but testost. level was up to about 650. I was then put on FSH / LH injections (it is about $1700 for a month supply - that is the only thing I don’t like about it), 150 units 3 times a week and stopped the androgel.

My testost. level is up to about 900 now, I get boners at the drop of a hat, I feel like a teenager again but still NO sperm and NO kids.
My diagnosis is hypoganadism due to pituitary damage from head injury, (was hit by a drunk driver).

The plan is to stay on the FSH / LH and if that doesn’t make me start producing sperm then apparently nothing will.

I read an article(www.basskilleronline.com HPTA reversal) about jumpstarting the system of guys who’s HPTA had shut down due to chronic steroid use. The guys were put on clomid, HCG, and nolvadex concurrently and they all eventually reverted back to normal.

Anyone have experience with this? I want to feel good, which I do, but more than that I want children.
I thought I would share my experience and ask the question that I did after that LONG story…Thanks for reading.

43

[quote]lmgray wrote:
I can’t believe this thread. All of the posts sound so familiar. I also had low test. level…was around 175 or so. I was put on androderm 2.5 and level went to about 450 - 500. Primary physician said this was OK and left it at that. I still felt like shit.

Got married about a year later(now my wife feels like shit…ha ha), tried to have children and nothing happened. Wife and I went to an endocrinologist / fertility doc.
(Will skip details and get to main point) Come to find out after several tests, CT scan, semen analysis, etc., I was the problem. Doctor changed my androderm to 5 mg/day androgel. He said the the so called normal test level was too low, an active male my age (36) should have a level of around 850.

Back to the tests, I had NO sperm but everything worked normal I was just “shooting blanks”. I have worked out consistently since I was a teenager and have used AAS a lot. I was afraid that may be the problem but the endocrinologist said he didn’t think so, I hadn’t taken anything for about a year.

My testost., FSH, LH were low. I was put on HCG (I forgot the dosage), about 6 months later, still no sperm but testost. level was up to about 650. I was then put on FSH / LH injections (it is about $1700 for a month supply - that is the only thing I don’t like about it), 150 units 3 times a week and stopped the androgel.

My testost. level is up to about 900 now, I get boners at the drop of a hat, I feel like a teenager again but still NO sperm and NO kids.
My diagnosis is hypoganadism due to pituitary damage from head injury, (was hit by a drunk driver).

The plan is to stay on the FSH / LH and if that doesn’t make me start producing sperm then apparently nothing will.

I read an article(www.basskilleronline.com HPTA reversal) about jumpstarting the system of guys who’s HPTA had shut down due to chronic steroid use. The guys were put on clomid, HCG, and nolvadex concurrently and they all eventually reverted back to normal.

Anyone have experience with this? I want to feel good, which I do, but more than that I want children.
I thought I would share my experience and ask the question that I did after that LONG story…Thanks for reading.[/quote]

I really doubt this will help since your issue sounds trauma-related but there are many things that will increase sperm counts for the “average” low sperm count guy. PM me if interested and I can tell you a few things.

44

[quote]gozeera wrote:
Please if anyone can help with this question do so, I am very worried.

In the beginning of February I somehow convinced myself that I had low-t. It was because I heard someone on the radio talking about some issues that sounded like mine and so the doctor on the radio recommended that he look into Androgel.

Well, I went to my doctor on the 9th and “told him” I though I had low-t and to give me an Androgel 5mg Rx. He has known me for 7 years and I am usually right when I tell him what is wrong, so he wrote me the prescription.

He did take some blood and sent it off for testing my levels before I started taking it.

I took the gel for about a week and then my results came back.

T-Level: 457
Free T-Level: 81.4
Free T-%: 1.78
PSA: 0.90

That’s the results from my test which was done around 11am in the morning.

I continued taking the Androgel for 18 days. As of yesterday I stopped taking it.

My questions are:

For 32 years old are the levels I listed above good, or what?

After taking the gel for 18 days am I going to feel really bad and if so, will it get better?

What non prescription supplements can I take to increase my levels without any bad side effects?

Should I not stop taking Androgel cold turkey and use just a smaller amount for a few days and then smaller, etc.?

Please help because Androgel is too expensive and I don’t have insurance.

BTW, I am in pretty decent health and such, thanks to boxing, in case that matters with any answers.

[/quote]

Forskolin will boost T but not dramatically.

45

Instead of boring you with the same old story – which I find many of the accounts strangly similar – I’ll give a few details and get to my question.

I’m a 38 year old male and was diagnosed with low T about 2 years ago. First of all Test, Serum level was 411 ng/dL at last reading 6/3/05. My physician only has me doing bloodwork 1x a year. I’m on androgel 5mg and have been for 2 years. I found it has helped me with my energy level, mood and somewhat with libido, but I do feel like I could be feeling better but doctor doesn’t want to go there.

I usually have an appt with my physician every 6 months - and have been rescheduled 2x already due to his “vacations”. Quite honestly, I’m a bit frustrated with scheduling around his stuff when I make an appt 6 months in advance. So now my 6 mo appt is now pushing 9 months.

My only alternative is to change physicians. I live in a very small town and will more than likely have to drive to go to another one. Are there any web sites or anything that I can reference of physicians that are comfortable with treating hypogonadism? I don’t want to waste the time to have a consultation to find out they want to put me on an anti-depressant instead of treating me for the problem that is at hand. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

46

[quote]DeterminedNate wrote:
Just to add to my last post. Somebody mentioned testim, as a replacement for androgel. It allegedly raises free testosterone levels higher (which I believe contributes to higher libido), than androgel.

Has anybody had any positive results with Testim? Thx.

-N[/quote]

DeterminedNate - I too went through the same stuff, been trying to increase (or even GET a libido) for about the past 3 years.

Since my T levels have been ranging from mid 500’s to mid 700’s , (I’m in my late thirties) and consequently haven’t been able to get a script for TRT gels or patches, I’ve been using a stack of Tribulus, DHEA, and ZMA, and have been getting great muscle definition and a great reduction of body fat, not to mentioned a T level of 786 after a night of drinking and no supps for a week…I STILL HAD NO FRIGGEN LIBIDO!!!

(I’ve also had the whole prolactin, pituitary MRI thing done too)

I asked my urologist and he suggested that it was stress…I said “BS”…so I tried my damndest to figure out the defining point in my life when my libido started going down the s$it-hole…I figured it started after i started weaning off a benzo (klonopin) and then started smoking over a pack a day - till last year when i was able to quit by using Commit lozenges (i was popping them like pez)…turns out, nicotine can have a DRAMATIC effect on libido and since I have started weaning off the nicotine lozenges, my libido is finally returning…

Just thought I’d share that with you, in case you are a heavy smoker/nicotine user…also, I hear heavy alcohol use can affect libido as well…

HTH,

Jonesinit

47

[quote]DeterminedNate wrote:
Androgel has boosted my T-levels from a low of 198 to consistently in the 700-800 range on 5 mg per day.

However, it has had little to no affect on my lost libido. Has anyone else experienced this?

I have been on androgel for about 9 months now. [/quote]

DeterminedNate - I too went through the same stuff, been trying to increase (or even GET a libido) for about the past 3 years.

Since my T levels have been ranging from mid 500’s to mid 700’s , (I’m in my late thirties) and consequently haven’t been able to get a script for TRT gels or patches, I’ve been using a stack of Tribulus, DHEA, and ZMA, and have been getting great muscle definition and a great reduction of body fat, not to mentioned a T level of 786 after a night of drinking and no supps for a week…I STILL HAD NO FRIGGEN LIBIDO!!!

I asked my urologist and he suggested that it was stress…I said “BS”…so I decided to figure out the defining point in my life when my libido started going down the s$it-hole…I figured it started after i started weaning off a benzo (klonopin) and then started smoking over a pack a day - till last year when i was able to quit by using Commit lozenges (i was popping them like pez)…turns out, nicotine can have a DRAMATIC effect on libido and since I have started weaning off the nicotine lozenges, my libido is finally returning…

Just thought I’d share that with you, in case you are a heavy smoker/nicotine user…also, I hear heavy alcohol use can affect libido as well…

Jonesinit

48

Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin –

As men grow older, the testosterone responsible for libido tends to bind to globulins in the blood instead of stimulating the brain?s centers.1,2 Natural plant extracts have been shown to enhance sexual desire, performance, and gratification.3-29* These extracts also have been shown to be free of side effects. Life Extension offers a standardized muira puama extract combined with a nettle root extract, zinc, Peruvian ginseng (maca), and chrysin in a preparation called Super MiraForte.

49

“Super MiraForte”

I tried it, 2004, and found it very expensive and for me, I did not feel that it really did anything. And chrysin, while working great in a test tube, is very poorly absorbed, so one needs to take large amounts and even in bulk it is costly.

There are other products that should work better and be more cost effective. If one needs HRT, none of these things will take one to the higher end of the lab ranges. Lab work and doctor’s appointments can be expensive, but injected test can be cheaper than the supplements, and very effective for most.

50

The question is, with androgel, will you pop positive on a steroid test? Will the androgel show up on a steroid test for usapl or any of the tested feds? It seems to be working for me, but sure would hate to bet popped and I’m not even cheating. ANyone have any experience with testing and androgel???

51

[quote]Yeshua wrote:
The question is, with androgel, will you pop positive on a steroid test? Will the androgel show up on a steroid test for usapl or any of the tested feds? It seems to be working for me, but sure would hate to bet popped and I’m not even cheating. ANyone have any experience with testing and androgel???[/quote]

The criteria is natural not normal. If you take test, your ratios of test to to other T precursors will be abnormal and that is how they catch folks taking straight T. Manufactured test is made starting with tropical yams. The ratios of carbon isotopes for things that grow in the tropics is different from things that are grown/live in temperate climates. So the carbon isotope ratios of manufactured test are different from natural and that testing is now starting.

52

Even though the topic is old, I’d like to add to it as someone who has had testosterone therapy for nearly 20 years to combat hypogonadism.

Don’t screw around with testosterone therapy medication, you will pay dearly. See your endocronologist!

A couple points:

  1. Androgel is a steroid, but it’s not an anobolic steriod. You won’t test positive on a steroid test.

  2. Taking any form of testosterone replacement will prevent the production of real testosterone from your body. When your body sees testosterone present it knows it does not need to produce any, depending on your levels.

My personal experience on application:

  1. Shots are Ok, but you tend to have a peak in your cycle. I had to stop taking shots because every now and then my body saw the medicine as a foreign agent, the medicine is very thick, and I would get sick with a high fever for a few days.

  2. The patch burnt the ass off me. Wherever I put it, it would burn the skin. For an athlete, the patch is not a good alternative, with sweating it will fall right off.

  3. I’ve been using Androgel for years now with no issues. If I train in the morning I put it on after the shower.

53

ok well im new to this and i was wondering should i ask my doctor if my 15 year old boy should take this cause he has low t levels because i read you have to be atleast 15 to start so i told me boy and i wanna know what you guys think feel free to call me stupid andi will ask his doc too i jut wanna hear what you think plus he loves working out he wants to be a muscle man since he was 12 so that should help

54

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
If you are diagnosed with low T, your doctor may recommend Androgel. Before agreeing to this, you must get his word to junk the gel and go to shots if you’re unhappy with the results. Like a fool, I did not. Also, no other doctor will overule the first, so you’re stuck.

Of course, you could drop the gel, go to a totally new doc and try for shots. But now, since your T shut down from the gel, you will feel like absolute shit, worse even than before! Even if you slop on the gel outside the doc’s office after the test, you’ll still feel like absolute hell for 5 or 6 days.

Seriously, if anyone reads this, think about it before you agree. Words from someone who suffered!!![/quote]

I take Androgel for a serious medical condition: secondary hypogonadism.

My T value is regularly 800 to 1000 ng/dL.

Is this a trap?

If so, I like it! :slight_smile: