Another lawyer who has been covering this.
Hi, woman here.
I donāt know much about Tate but Romania doesnāt have the best track record when it comes to womenās rights so Iām inclined to believe that it was not a simple issue of #metoo
Regarding rape vs regret, power dynamics are a potentially big issue, especially in the context of work places.
For example, thereās been a somewhat ongoing scandal in econ (behavioural no less) over profs forcing female phd students to sleep with them for placements/graduation. The women theoretically could have walked away or blown the whistle, but did they really have a choice??
I know that I wouldnāt say anything, even if I didnāt consent to being treated that way
I believe so. How not?
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Itās quid pro quo, not rape, not sexual assault. They had every opportunity to say ānoā, and still may have found themselves getting said opportunity if they did.
Tate is a loser, he just happened to anger some of the right people, thatās all. In the end he is insecure trailer trash who flaunts what he thinks is real wealth, but the wealthiest in the world laugh their ass off at him.
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That has been the impression i get too.
Trying WAAAAAY too hard to be one of the guys.
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Thereās actually an interesting study I saw yesterday that iāll link soon
Turns out kids from the generation after mine still intend to get married and have kids
But theyāre putting it off for longer and longer because they are terrified of financial instability and skyrocketing costs of living
Some wind up either being along FOREVER or they wind up staying in a perpetual girlfriend, boyfriend dynamic albeit with cohabitation and, at times, with kids. My cousin is like this, heās been together with his SO for like 15 years now and theyāve got a kid.
Many are putting off marriage due to financial concerns. I was just talking to an older couple the other day who wanted to get divorced not because they donāt love each other, but because they are both physically disabled and married couples here can only get one pension with retirement (as opposed to both individuals getting a pension).
Not the study I was talking about but
" When millennials (which the Pew Research Center considers ages 21 to 36) were asked why they had not gotten married, 29 percent said they were not financially prepared"
Heās only worth a PIDDLY 300 million dollars!
So they could simply not graduateā¦ or they could sleep with the professorā¦ and no, under a dynamic like this thereās a good chance the professor will fail them (prove me wrong). Having to redo your PHD thesis and move to another college would be time consuming and extremely costly, esp in America with student loans.
Thatās an inappropriate dynamic that shouldnāt exist in the first place.
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Itās rape. You remind me of this:
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This is wildly different circumstances; comparing the two is unreasonable.
EDIT:
What youāve described is better fitted to āconsent under duressā, which still is not quid pro quo - it is rape.
Agree, but it is not the same as rape.
Itās a very similar mindset to strong parental pressure or the military. Many people really suck at saying no to authority figures. especially ones with that have a very direct bearing on oneās future.
Its not a normal workplace situation. Some professors certainly see themselves as more typical bosses, but others are very much like surrogate parents. I met with a professor of one of the programmes I applied to and he had no problem telling me, an undergraduate student who he had no prior contact with, that my advisor (his former PhD student) was like his 4th daughter as well as some quite personal details about previous candidate from my school who Iād never met.
not according to the professors Iāve talked to. getting on the bad side of a powerful professor like the one in question is professional suicide
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The professor situation is some pretty severe coercion.
Thats essentially saying āSleep with me or your past 6-8 years of work goes down the drain.ā.
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Actually it squarely fits in with the legal definition of rape
Rape
āunlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the person subjected to such penetrationā
You might add ābut thereās consentā
Yes, but legally consent canāt be given if coercion or abuse of authority is present. Therefore from a legal standpoint using a position of power to coerce someone into sex i.e āiāll fail you, youāll have to pay off 100k+ in student loans and go into crippling debt for a very long timeā
The individual can and in many cases will say āfineā because they have been backed into a corner. The repercussions for saying no =/= a life ruined.
Going by what iāve asked lawyers, this invalidates consent from a legal standpoint.
Sex without consent, with coercion and abuse of authority present fits into the legal definition of rape.
He is trash, but I donāt think he and his brother are careless enough to not invest some of the millions theyāve earned.
He once said that if all his money was taken from him, heād soon be on the road to becoming rich again. I believe this considering one of the quickest ways to make money is in the vice trades, above all, sex work/porn in which vulnerable women are involved, especially in the case of a man who is managing women who do the actual āworkā.
He also has the knack and nerve for scams. He once boasted that he would pretend to be the typist for e-mails of his some of his cam workers in order to scam lonely customers. Heād tell sob stories about how these foreign women need money for various things with the man hoping to eventually meet, intentionally dragging the ordeal out to sap the men of their money. Eventually the men would become angry because of the shenanigans and then he would flip the script and say they couldnāt meet because now the man showed he was angry. The man would disappear, only to come back and apologize and throw more money at the woman.
Many socially savvy and attractive men are capable of such scams. They just arenāt nervy and low enough to do it.
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I think saying a professor is in a position of authority is stretching definitions of words. Perhaps there is a definition of āauthorityā Iām unaware of in this context, but I do not think this term applies.
Youāve asked lawyers about this specific circumstance?
It seems youāre being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. If thatās the case, then Iām going to disengage.
Yes
Quite a few lawyers (and doctors) in the family.
Including some law students, the discussion of what is and isnāt sexual assault and what constitutes rape has come up. The one I was particularly curious about was āwhat if both parties are drunk?ā
Because in theory being intoxicated from a legal standpoint revokes ones ability to consentā¦ you would not believe how many technicalities and āwhat ifāsā are present thereā¦ I believe talking with lawyers sharpens ones ability to analyse statements and technicalities.
Thatās what lawyers train to do
Not the case. You said āwomen could say noā and I did take issue with that because the ultimatum was either have sex with the professor or wind up crippled with student loans and give up 6 years of study to start again.
To which you responded saying you agree the dynamic is inappropriate but that wasnāt rape despite it meeting the legal definition of rape.
I clarified that it does fit in with the legal definition of rape.
Youāve now accused me of being arguementative for the sake of being arguementative. I am scrutinising your statement because I think it is incorrect.
If I see a statement I donāt agree with, iāll tell you why I donāt agree.
My conversations with lawyers donāt actually mean much though considering my anecdote could be guilty of sampleship bias. Anecdote ranks fairly low on the scale of reliability.
Iām just going by what they have to say in this particular case because they know more about the ins and outs of the law than I do. But finding the legal definition of rape can be done independently.
Position of authority
āPosition of authority means that position occupied by a parent, guardian, relative, household member, teacher, employer, custodian or any other person who, by reason of his position, is able to exercise significant influence over a person.ā
Thatās the legal definition. The professor can single handedly fail the student and de rail years of study, put them in debt re student loans.
Position of authority doesnāt necessarily only refer to a parent or adult guardian. A babysitter can even be considered to be in a position of authority.
In Australia, if a professor wants to date or have a sexual relationship with a student most universities require said professor to transition the student over to a different class as relationships with students potentially comprimise academic integrity.
Once again, this is me clarifying why it does fit in with the definition of āposition of authorityā.
The reason for me providing the definition is because youāve said āI donāt think it fits in with the definitionā. This is not me attempting to be malicious for the sake of being malicious.
I donāt know how common it is for professors to coerce students like this. In Australia or the United States iād think itās very uncommon.
This show is SO funnyā¦
I know a guy who was once a professor. He had undergrad female students offer him blowJās, and sex for a good grade. He took up the offers quite frequently. It didnāt hurt that he was about 6ā5" blond, broad shoulders and handsome. This apparently went on during mid 30s-into his early 40ās. I must admit my opinion of him dropped when I learnt of his behavior.
He doesnāt teach anymore. Left education for better money. Never had any official complaints made about him.
With todayās covert recording technology it would be dead easy to do a sting on a guy (professor)trying the sex for grade coercion. Not saying it doesnāt still go on, just that it would be dead easy to get someone like this busted, lose their job and probably end their academic career.